Well, I do like facts. The facts are simple. Gay marriage is illegal in Russia. Gay marriage is also illegal in Russia. Free expression on gay rights is also restricted in Russia.
You may think that there's no homophobia, but it's quite literally playing on the fear and homophobia of Russians. Why else put in the issue about the fear of forcing people to house gay people in a video?
Yep, that's homophobic. Kак жало, товарищ.
Homophobia is not acceptable. Just like any other irrational phobia.
why i should support it? I don't fucking care. "Gay" rights are not even in a top-10 of rights I concern about. They are vanishingly small issue in comparison with rights for free and qualitative medical care, medium and higher education, labor conditions, kindergartens, housing, retraining courses, etc, etc.let me know when you support legalizing gay marriage, gay adoptions, and allowing for free expression and speech on gay issues.
Let me know when you support legalizing all of the above and when all of the above is done, we can talk about gay rights.
The problem is - there is no systemic bias in US law enforcement against minorities. Data just doesn't bear it out, sorry.
And "All evidence" - like, two examples mentioned in Western media last year? Is that all it takes to prove "systematic oppression"? Well, i guess you do see oppression everywhere...
You are demonstrating my point for me, thanks. It's a shame you don't care about the rights and freedoms of gay people. So, do you think gay marriage should be legalized? Do you think that gay adoption should be legal? How about allowing for free speech and expression on gay issues?
I support legalizing just about everything, so your argument makes absolutely no sense. I don't think any of those things are banned in my country.
I'm still over here, holding my breath.
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Can you cite some evidence to back up that claim?
https://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/pu...lice-use-force
The most exhaustive study on the use of force ever done would disagree with you. Black people are more likely to be the target of use of all forms of force, other than shootings, by police officers.
I mean, it's cute that you think prominent media examples are what people mean when they talk about systemic bias. But also kinda sad.
Weren't you the one claiming that Westerners should stop talking about Russia because they haven't actually lived there? What makes you the expert on American law enforcement then, comrade?
Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
"We argue that the patterns in the data are consistent with a model in which police officers are utility maximizers, a fraction of which have a preference for discrimination"
Sure, fraction of police are prejudiced.
So do fraction of Russian population against gays.
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Yes, it is sad that you cannot show other sources of your "systemic bias" claim.
Last edited by Shalcker; 2018-02-20 at 05:30 PM.
Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
You are trying to build one hell of a straw man. I refuted an argument you made, yet did not back up. Now you wnat to try and somehow equate that to anti-gay legislation in Russia... That's adorable.
What percentage of Russians want to ban gay marriage? What percent want to ban gay adoptions? What percentage want to ban free expression on gay issues?
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...homosexuality/
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...n_2866608.html
Well, that FRACTION would be 85/100, or if you prefer, 17 out of 20 Russians oppose gay marriage.
Man, it's adorable how badly that just blew up in your face.
There is no anti-gay legislation; there is pro-status-quo legislation, however.
Do you remember when you legalized gay marriage? Do you remember how long that took, from first activists to actual legislative acceptance?What percentage of Russians want to ban gay marriage? What percent want to ban gay adoptions? What percentage want to ban free expression on gay issues?
Do you think adopting your policies without repeating same fight you had is going to happen, just because that is your preference of "Current Year"?
Because YOU made "gay marriage" into "Submit to Western Opinion" icon; and since currently US is considered hostile, similar hostility extends to any social change it promotes.Well, that FRACTION would be 85/100, or if you prefer, 17 out of 20 Russians oppose gay marriage.
Once again, the status quo IS ANTI-GAY. let me know when you support legalizing gay marriage, legalizing gay adoptions, and ceasing the restrictions on free expression on gay issues.
I'm talking about you personally, not the government. When will you personally support such legalization.
I have supported legalization for those things for 20 years, since I was a teenager. Maybe you shouldn't be so far behind the times.
So, you are now arguing that I'm right, but you don't like HOW I'm right... does that pretty much cover it? Feel free to try and deflect, it's all you know.
I do not believe "marriage" is form of respect, sorry (or that refusing it is form of oppression either).
It is historically created for family/kid support, because every state needs kids to keep their gears going. Majority of "marriage" benefits are geared to that end, and extending them to gays makes no sense (even if they do love each other).
I do not necessarily believe that total "freedom of expression" is strictly beneficial either, even if it has some uses.The US is not exactly "loving" of gay people... but more or less, most Americans respect gay people, if they may not fully support their rights to marriage. Because most people in the US have been brought up supporting the idea of freedom of expression, and free speech, even if they don't agree with it.
Then let gay people adopt. Either that, or ban marriage for anyone who does not wish to have children. The last time I checked, gay people seem more than capable of having a family.
So, you state you are personally opposed to gay marriage, as well as free expression for gay issues. You are proving my point for me, thanks.
It is defined by State in modern Russia, and State says that the only union it accepts is one between man and woman.
As such any changes can only go through State legislature. And gays are still decades from winning that one.
Noone care what you do in your bedroom in Russia either.We don't have total freedom of expression either... it stops at harm. What two(or more) gay guys, or girls do in their bedroom, if it's consensual, does not harm anyone.