Unholy Talents

[Kaver]

My equipped ilvl is around 970-975 and I have all legendaries for both Unholy and Frost DK.

When I play Obliteration Frost or Dark Arbiter Unholy, I sim for more than 2.1 mill.

If I play with Clawing Shadows and Soul Reaper, I sim for around 1.9 mill. Therefore at least 200 k below Frost and DA Unholy.

This is of course simulations but it is pretty accurate with my actual output for these 3 options.

This makes me a bit annoyed because I would like to have the option of playing with CS and SR. But I can't really bring that to a mythic raid when I potentially can do 200+ k dps more with other builds. I would never play with CS and SR all the time but it would be nice to have it as an alternative. A great scenario for me would be:

Week 1: OB Frost

Week 2: DA Unholy

Week 3: BoS Frost (or something else with Frost )

Week 4: CS + SR Unholy

Week 5 OB Frost etc.

I get bored with one build very quickly and therefore more options suit me well. Clawing Shadows is a ranged ability and the CS + SR build should maybe not have excatly the same dps output as other specs, but I think a difference of 200+ k is too much. Just my opinion.


How do you feel about viable talents? Are you satisfied with having at least one viable option for both Unholy and Frost? Or are you more like me and want multiple viable options for each spec?

[Baddok21]

I am a fan of BoS Frost and a Fan of DA Unholy, likely because they analogue the same way in terms of extreme payoff for doing it well and extreme power lvl gap when not doing it well.

More options would be great, but as far as i can tell for the history of WoW that is not going to happen and has almost never happened, so i am much more inclined to be satisfied with a viable option per spec than to keep rolling the dice. Like in my experience they gut one spec variation inorder to promote a new one for example in nighthold where BoS was king (and i loved it) i did not want OB or Glacial Advance to be viable option because blizzard does not operate that way they would make OB/GA viable at the direct expense of BoS.

So i personally just hope the talent selection i enjoy the most is king because thats usually as far as it goes and so i play BoS frost on Portal/Kingoroth/Eonar and Unholy DA on everything else, and im fine with that.

[Piz813]

My equipped ilvl is around 970-975 and I have all legendaries for both Unholy and Frost DK.

When I play Obliteration Frost or Dark Arbiter Unholy, I sim for more than 2.1 mill.

If I play with Clawing Shadows and Soul Reaper, I sim for around 1.9 mill. Therefore at least 200 k below Frost and DA Unholy.

This is of course simulations but it is pretty accurate with my actual output for these 3 options.

This makes me a bit annoyed because I would like to have the option of playing with CS and SR. But I can't really bring that to a mythic raid when I potentially can do 200+ k dps more with other builds. I would never play with CS and SR all the time but it would be nice to have it as an alternative. A great scenario for me would be:

Week 1: OB Frost

Week 2: DA Unholy

Week 3: BoS Frost (or something else with Frost )

Week 4: CS + SR Unholy

Week 5 OB Frost etc.

I get bored with one build very quickly and therefore more options suit me well. Clawing Shadows is a ranged ability and the CS + SR build should maybe not have excatly the same dps output as other specs, but is think a difference of 200+ k is too much. Just my opinion.


How do you feel about viable talents? Are you satisfied with having at least one viable option for both Unholy and Frost? Or are you more like me and want multiple viable options for each spec?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...=h.ihlrvviyzv3


yeah it would be nice but the math has already been done and choice talents for UH / Frost are already set in stone and the ink is dry.
least in BfA Alpha, leveling as UH is much much faster than frost to my surprise. Castigator and SR with BS is fun on packs of mobs again and its much faster to execute the AoE after the set up. As frost I stood there spamming everything and watched 1% be chipped away from a 110 mob...
But I did not see Apoc in alpha... sad face

[Kaver]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...=h.ihlrvviyzv3


yeah it would be nice but the math has already been done and choice talents for UH / Frost are already set in stone and the ink is dry.
least in BfA Alpha, leveling as UH is much much faster than frost to my surprise. Castigator and SR with BS is fun on packs of mobs again and its much faster to execute the AoE after the set up. As frost I stood there spamming everything and watched 1% be chipped away from a 110 mob...
But I did not see Apoc in alpha... sad face

I just never understood why blizzard cant just buff the damage of Soul Reaper and call it a day. Easy fix.

If Apoc is not in BoA, I hope they at least rework AotD.

[Balvan]

Thing is that row 100 talents are uninteresting in general. Apart from BoS and DA that offer some kind of interesting gameplay, other talents, like obliteration and soul reaper are extremely boring. Defile shouldn't be lvl 100 talent. It's aoe talent with very small single target dps impact and as far as we can see Blizzard will hopefuly change their approach with talents where in BfA we won't see aoe and single target talents in the same row.

I'm kinda happy that the most viable lvl100 talent for UH is the most interesting one. Had same feelings in NH when BoS was the king.

[Kaver]

Thing is that row 100 talents are uninteresting in general. Apart from BoS and DA that offer some kind of interesting gameplay, other talents, like obliteration and soul reaper are extremely boring. Defile shouldn't be lvl 100 talent. It's aoe talent with very small single target dps impact and as far as we can see Blizzard will hopefuly change their approach with talents where in BfA we won't see aoe and single target talents in the same row.

I'm kinda happy that the most viable lvl100 talent for UH is the most interesting one. Had same feelings in NH when BoS was the king.

I completely agree. The lvl100 should be much more interesting than Soul Reaper for example. The problem is just that if they make more interesting talent choices but still keep undertuning these talents, they are not going to be used even though they are fun.

And the question I'm always asking is: If Blizzard can see a talent is performing very badly compared to other talent options, why don't they just buff it?

For example, as I mentioned above I'm doing 1.9 mill with Soul reaper and 2.1 mill with Dark Arbiter. What is it that restricts Blizzard from just buffing soul reaper?

The reason I'm taking this topic up is because I don't want these under performing talents in BoA. If I could just understand this process from Blizzard's point of view to get why it's not a simple task to buff a talent, I think it would be easier for me to accept.

[Beefkow]

I stopped playing UH dk because Dark Arbiter is the only viable talent in that tier.

Either you play Dark Arbiter, or go roll a different spec/class.

[Kaver]

I stopped playing UH dk because Dark Arbiter is the only viable talent in that tier.

Either you play Dark Arbiter, or go roll a different spec/class.

Exactly. And I don't undertstand why Blizzard talks about adding more customizability to the game with legendaries etc. when they have a lot of talents going to waste. What about fixing the current problems before adding new ones...

[slime]

I think you should find the build that's best for each fight and play that. But I agree with you on Mythic progression, you bring the highest dps you can (or utility), you don't bring what you like. If you are farming bosses mythic than sure bring what you like.

[Piz813]

I stopped playing UH dk because Dark Arbiter is the only viable talent in that tier.

Either you play Dark Arbiter, or go roll a different spec/class.

Yup. I tried defile with helm and class ring for a 19 last night. Got shit the whole time from group. Fortified trash melted and boss damage was good.
But this week is sanguine.... Not the brightest idea I had all week. Hahahaha oops

[Monkeymoo]

Exactly. And I don't undertstand why Blizzard talks about adding more customizability to the game with legendaries etc. when they have a lot of talents going to waste. What about fixing the current problems before adding new ones...

Blizzard is more about covering up the old problems with a slew of new ones :P

- - - Updated - - -

And the question I'm always asking is: If Blizzard can see a talent is performing very badly compared to other talent options, why don't they just buff it?

For example, as I mentioned above I'm doing 1.9 mill with Soul reaper and 2.1 mill with Dark Arbiter. What is it that restricts Blizzard from just buffing soul reaper?

The reason I'm taking this topic up is because I don't want these under performing talents in BoA. If I could just understand this process from Blizzard's point of view to get why it's not a simple task to buff a talent, I think it would be easier for me to accept.

You know I’ve very often wondered this myself. I can’t remember if it was during WoD or what where Shadow Priest dmg was laughably bad and they just left it. Like, toss out a buff, what’s the problem?

[Kaver]

You know I’ve very often wondered this myself. I can’t remember if it was during WoD or what where Shadow Priest dmg was laughably bad and they just left it. Like, toss out a buff, what’s the problem?

Exactly. In my mind it is a 2 minute job to buff a talent but maybe I'm wrong. And if I'm wrong, it would be nice to get an explanation from Blizzard of why it is a more time consuming job.

[msdos]

I stopped playing UH dk because Dark Arbiter is the only viable talent in that tier.

Either you play Dark Arbiter, or go roll a different spec/class.

Same basically. I really hope this trend doesn't continue in BFA, where your 100 row is 2 trash talents, one that doesn't even make sense and the third you never spec out of.
What were they even thinking with Glacial Advance and Defile? Why do they even exist, let alone their tree placement.

[Kendros]

Same basically. I really hope this trend doesn't continue in BFA, where your 100 row is 2 trash talents, one that doesn't even make sense and the third you never spec out of.
What were they even thinking with Glacial Advance and Defile? Why do they even exist, let alone their tree placement.

Defile is actualy pretty good for aoe paired with the legendary helm, SR on the other hand i complete trash for everything.

[msdos]

Defile is actualy pretty good for aoe paired with the legendary helm, SR on the other hand i complete trash for everything.

Defile doesn't need to exist, there's already 100 ways to AOE cleave with that spec, that was more of my point. It also doesn't belong in that row. Face it, it's an afterthought and barely anyone uses it and you have to be wearing the helm for it.. Come on now.

Even worse though, Glacial Advance. I feel like anyone here on these forums could design the tree placement better.