Legion - Assassination Discussion

[elfporn]

Hello dear assassins! I'm new to the specc, and new to rogue. I have a few questions, maybe they are silly but hopefully someone can help me out.
During AoE, do I spread low combo points Ruptures if the targets will not live for long? I know I should never ever use Rupute without 5 CP on single target.
When facing 2 targets, do I use Fan of Knives? Or is that for more targets than 2?
Thank you.

Rupturing a target about to die will give you an influx of energy equal the full amount of what the entire duration of rupture would have given you - in some situations it is advantageous to get the large energy gains as a target dies - especially when chain pulling - even though you would lose dps short term.

So..to answer your first question...sometimes.

3+ targets might work out better, depends on energy gen.

Now, here is where things can be different: If you have the tier 21 4 piece set bonus.

with the t21 4p, your aoe rotation changes to FoK-->FoK-->FoK-->envenom. with bleeds on one target. So you wouldn't spread ruptures at all, but instead shift to maintaining the poison crit buff via envenom. One set of bleeds, and then fok x3, envenom, ignoring CP overcapping, will net the best aoe dps.

[Deleted]

Rupturing a target about to die will give you an influx of energy equal the full amount of what the entire duration of rupture would have given you - in some situations it is advantageous to get the large energy gains as a target dies - especially when chain pulling - even though you would lose dps short term.

So..to answer your first question...sometimes.

3+ targets might work out better, depends on energy gen.

Now, here is where things can be different: If you have the tier 21 4 piece set bonus.

with the t21 4p, your aoe rotation changes to FoK-->FoK-->FoK-->envenom. with bleeds on one target. So you wouldn't spread ruptures at all, but instead shift to maintaining the poison crit buff via envenom. One set of bleeds, and then fok x3, envenom, ignoring CP overcapping, will net the best aoe dps.

Thank you for your reply! I have one more fast question, if I have 4 CP and Rupture is about to fall off from my target (ST), is it then ok to refresh it with only 4 CP? Or do I waste a CP (use mutiliate before)and refresh it with 5 (seems stupid..)?

[elfporn]

Thank you for your reply! I have one more fast question, if I have 4 CP and Rupture is about to fall off from my target (ST), is it then ok to refresh it with only 4 CP? Or do I waste a CP (use mutiliate before)and refresh it with 5 (seems stupid..)?

4 is fine, 4+ is the general rule

[Aluren]

Thank you for your reply! I have one more fast question, if I have 4 CP and Rupture is about to fall off from my target (ST), is it then ok to refresh it with only 4 CP? Or do I waste a CP (use mutiliate before)and refresh it with 5 (seems stupid..)?

You can get the last CP with Garrote if it's close to falling off, aside from that it's not worth it using Mut in that case, just cast Rupture with 4 CP.

[krille20]

Hey guys and girls. I have a rogue with an ilevel of about 900 and im looking to gear it up as Im trying to figure out stuff to do in the game atm and I've noticed there's two different builds for assassination, bleed and poison build. What's the difference between these two? I know its a noob question but I have no knowledge what so ever when it comes to rogues.

[Valkaneer]

Anyone know what the deal is with the BFA Rogue buff? I thought it was supposed to expose armor (which is pretty much useless garbage for Sin), but when I looked in my spell book I could find no buff or debuff at all. Anyknow what they plan on doing? I hope it's something that actually useful to all Rogue specs not just 2/3.

[Wow]

Anyone know what the deal is with the BFA Rogue buff? I thought it was supposed to expose armor (which is pretty much useless garbage for Sin), but when I looked in my spell book I could find no buff or debuff at all. Anyknow what they plan on doing? I hope it's something that actually useful to all Rogue specs not just 2/3.

It was there for a few builds then changed to monks and nothing has replaced it yet.

[shaunika123]

It could be that assa will look for itemlvl rather than stats. Lets hope blizz doesn't forget nightblade from sub or they redesign that awful thing of a dot.

if they make it last 24 seconds with 6 cp then I'm fine with it.

[pkm]

This ^

Mastery affecting bleeds as well and haste affecting our dots sounds really good, almost too good to be true

That would make Assassination rogue really dependant on secondary stats. Does Blizzard want this shit to continue when they clearly want item level to be the deciding factor for upgrades.

[Aluren]

That would make Assassination rogue really dependant on secondary stats. Does Blizzard want this shit to continue when they clearly want item level to be the deciding factor for upgrades.

That will depend on how much damage we will get from each secondary stat, but with haste being decent I believe things will be like you said, with itemlevel being the deciding factor in most cases.

[shaunika123]

That would make Assassination rogue really dependant on secondary stats. Does Blizzard want this shit to continue when they clearly want item level to be the deciding factor for upgrades.

you mean all 4 stats finally working on our main abilities instead of just half of them?

if anything itll make them closer to each other thus help achieve the "ilvl>secondary" stuff

on paper ofc

if they mess up the tuning then obviously it can fuck it up

but in theory it's better

[thottstation]

Assassination vs. Coven of Shivarra

Are we supposed to be keeping Rupture & Garrote running on both of them?

I'm shadowstepping/running between them, but it's pretty tiring.

[Varolyn]

Assassination vs. Coven of Shivarra

Are we supposed to be keeping Rupture & Garrote running on both of them?

I'm shadowstepping/running between them, but it's pretty tiring.

I usually try to keep rupture up on the both of them as long as they are reasonably close. I would only use garrote on the both of them if I was still using the T20 2piece. Without it, garrote has a 15 second cd for an 18 second dot. Not really worth the trouble imo.

[omeomorfismo]

Assassination vs. Coven of Shivarra

Are we supposed to be keeping Rupture & Garrote running on both of them?

I'm shadowstepping/running between them, but it's pretty tiring.

they should be positioned close enough to be fok-able, so double rupturing is pretty trivial

[wowkkittenn]

Hi MMO Community. I'm in need of help O_O

I've reached a point with my rogue where I can't break out of my dps bracket. Last night on heroic Vari, I did 1.8m which is garbage but I don't know what I can be doing differently! Can someone please help analyze my logs so I can figure out where I'm struggling?
I'm brand new to MMO Champion in terms of posting so I can't post links but my character is: Kkïttenn on Thrall US (Alt code 0239 for the 'i')

Please please someone help O_O I'm getting super frustrated!

<3

[makkura]

Hi MMO Community. I'm in need of help O_O

I've reached a point with my rogue where I can't break out of my dps bracket. Last night on heroic Vari, I did 1.8m which is garbage but I don't know what I can be doing differently! Can someone please help analyze my logs so I can figure out where I'm struggling?
I'm brand new to MMO Champion in terms of posting so I can't post links but my character is: Kkïttenn on Thrall US (Alt code 0239 for the 'i')

Please please someone help O_O I'm getting super frustrated!

<3

Have you considered having concordance proc and getting a bomb during your opener and both of your vanish windows? that'll prolly push you into orange parses.

[Eazy]

Hi MMO Community. I'm in need of help O_O

I've reached a point with my rogue where I can't break out of my dps bracket. Last night on heroic Vari, I did 1.8m which is garbage but I don't know what I can be doing differently! Can someone please help analyze my logs so I can figure out where I'm struggling?
I'm brand new to MMO Champion in terms of posting so I can't post links but my character is: Kkïttenn on Thrall US (Alt code 0239 for the 'i')

Please please someone help O_O I'm getting super frustrated!

<3

A few things - you could use Vendetta 4 times, not three.
You are also wasting combo points with mutilate, not very often, but it happens.
What's your opener anyway? From the Logs I see that you're casting Mutilate before the first Envenom(and after TB+KB), which is wrong, because you should've get 5 CP already from these two abilities(crit window from Mantle).

[wowkkittenn]

A few things - you could use Vendetta 4 times, not three.
You are also wasting combo points with mutilate, not very often, but it happens.
What's your opener anyway? From the Logs I see that you're casting Mutilate before the first Envenom(and after TB+KB), which is wrong, because you should've get 5 CP already from these two abilities(crit window from Mantle).

Opener is:
1. Garotte
2. Mutilate
3. Rupture
4. Vendetta
5. TB
6. KB
7. Vanish
8. Envenom
9. Garotte

I've kind of diverted and landed on this opener after a few months of playing. But after hearing what you're saying this is far from how I should be opening? When you say 'wasting combo points' you mean Mutilating at 4CP? Also, I'm having a hard time understanding how to properly use the Envemon buff/Kingsbane, any insight?

Thanks so much!

[Eazy]

Opener is:
1. Garotte
2. Mutilate
3. Rupture
4. Vendetta
5. TB
6. KB
7. Vanish
8. Envenom
9. Garotte

Why second Garrote? I think that you should use as much mut+Env in the crit window as possible.
(Everything else is perfect)

When you say 'wasting combo points' you mean Mutilating at 4CP?

Yes.

Also, I'm having a hard time understanding how to properly use the Envemon buff/Kingsbane, any insight?

Try to keep up Envenom buff for as long as possible(but do not neglect rupture+garrote, they're more imporatant!). Do not overcap it, the only exceptions are:
-crit window faster Vanish,
-you have too much energy,
-SoT during KB,

About Kingsbane - try to use it immediately after Envenom, or just before Envenom. Ensure that you're going to have full Envenom buff uptime(exceptions - rutpure!) during KB. There's also an ability called Surge of Toxins(SoT) that Envenom gives you, it also increases DMG from KB and has shorter uptime than Envenom. Ideal situation after using KB is to keeping SoT and Envenom for the whole duration.

About Toxic Blade - it's best to use it 9 seconds before Kingsbane is going off. Why? Because you're going to get big Kingsbane DoT damage from the last ticks.
But sometimes it's also recommended to use it on CD(I'm doing that). The differences are mediocre, it depends on your play style.


Anyway - there's a Discord for rogues and awesome guide:
http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

https://discord.gg/srcUce
You will be welcome here.

[elfporn]

Minimum 2 envenoms per tb, pref 3-5.