[Megathread] Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

[SirCowdog]

They are fine with people making passive, defensive builds in Dark Souls because that game is built around making your own play styles. Bloodborne was built around weapons instead and the weapon chooses your play style for you. Sekiro is a straight up action game which means you play it one way and there is no build diversity. If you don't use the tools the game gives you you're probably gonna have a bad time.

If there's really no build diversity on top of the lack of cosmetic customization, then that's a sad state of affairs.

[Shinzai]

If there's really no build diversity on top of the lack of cosmetic customization, then that's a sad state of affairs.

Why? It's a different type of game, with more ties to Tenchu. People didn't complain about "build diversity" or cosmetics in Ninja Gaiden.

It's a very different, but vaguely similar game to the Soulsborne series.

The focus, character-wise, is based around mastering an ever expanding tool and ability set.

[Jtbrig7390]

If there's really no build diversity on top of the lack of cosmetic customization, then that's a sad state of affairs.

Not every game from From Software needs to be Dark Souls.

[SirCowdog]

Why? It's a different type of game, with more ties to Tenchu. People didn't complain about "build diversity" or cosmetics in Ninja Gaiden.

It's a very different, but vaguely similar game to the Soulsborne series.

The focus, character-wise, is based around mastering an ever expanding tool and ability set.

Why? Because it's clearly targeting the Soulslike community, and those players expect certain things from the genre. Stray too far from those expectations and you risk losing those customers.

For instance, Im already having second thoughts about the game now. I wanted another Souls game, not another Ninja Gaiden. Maybe Sekiro will be good on its own merits, but it sounds like it's missing the mark for Souls players.

[Jtbrig7390]

Why? Because it's clearly targeting the Soulslike community, and those players expect certain things from the genre. Stray too far from those expectations and you risk losing those customers.

For instance, Im already having second thoughts about the game now. I wanted another Souls game, not another Ninja Gaiden. Maybe Sekiro will be good on its own merits, but it sounds like it's missing the mark for Souls players.

How is it targeting the "Soulslike Community" and even if it was you don't represent that community as a whole.

I'm a big Souls/Borne fan and I'm highly looking forward to this. Not everything they do has to be a copy/paste of Souls.

Ironically posts like yours is why they are done with Souls, They don't want to be known as a one trick pony.

[SirCowdog]

How is it targeting the "Soulslike Community" and even if it was you don't represent that community as a whole.

I'm a big Souls/Borne fan and I'm highly looking forward to this. Not everything they do has to be a copy/paste of Souls.

Ironically posts like yours is why they are done with Souls, They don't want to be known as a one trick pony.

Ok...i don't really want a pissing match about who it targets. Let's say for the sake of argument you're correct.

Even if its NOT targeted specifically at Souls players, it's going to attract their interest because of the similarities of being a melee oriented game where there's a curse/disease and the protagonist comes back to life. But it's also likely to disappoint due to the lack of other qualities such as customization and builds. This is a missed opportunity IMO.

Thats all I'm saying. Don't take it too seriously. It's not like I'm saying the game will be shit. It's just not what I think a lot of people will expect, or possibly want.

[Jtbrig7390]

Ok...i don't really want a pissing match about who it targets. Let's say for the sake of argument you're correct.

Even if its NOT targeted specifically at Souls players, it's going to attract their interest because of the similarities of being a melee oriented game where there's a curse/disease and the protagonist comes back to life. But it's also likely to disappoint due to the lack of other qualities such as customization and builds. This is a missed opportunity IMO.

Thats all I'm saying. Don't take it too seriously. It's not like I'm saying the game will be shit. It's just not what I think a lot of people will expect, or possibly want.

People shouldn't expect the game to be something it was never advertised that it was going to be. If people pick up the game and are disappointed in it then that is their problem and fault not From Software's (Unless its just a really bad game).

They have been quite open and clear on what the game is and isn't.

Personally I'm highly looking forward to it and very happy the CE of it doesn't cost a arm and a leg.

[SirCowdog]

People shouldn't expect the game to be something it was never advertised that it was going to be. If people pick up the game and are disappointed in it then that is their problem and fault not From Software's (Unless its just a really bad game).

They have been quite open and clear on what the game is and isn't.

Personally I'm highly looking forward to it and very happy the CE of it doesn't cost a arm and a leg.

Oh come off your high horse already. We're only just now starting to get real details about the nuts and bolts of the game. Are you really going to sit here with a straight face and say its unreasonable that Souls players might expect certain things from a FromSoftware title that up until VERY recently had all the trappings of their most popular and well known titles?

.uhg... Whatever. Im sick of arguing about it. You're obviously right and I'm wrong. Can we talk about stuff the game actually has instead?

[Jtbrig7390]

Oh come off your high horse already. We're only just now starting to get real details about the nuts and bolts of the game. Are you really going to sit here with a straight face and say its unreasonable that Souls players might expect certain things from a FromSoftware title that up until VERY recently had all the trappings of their most popular and well known titles?

.uhg... Whatever. Im sick of arguing about it.

Yes it is unreasonable.

Has nothing to do with being on a "high horse" your just salty as fuck you got called out on your dumb comment.

Like I said early'er comments like yours is why they stepped away from the Souls Series. They don't want to be a one trick pony and I respect them for that.

Dial back your hype and what you expect of them, Let them make what they want not what you want.

[SirCowdog]

just salty as fuck you got called out on your dumb comment.

That was uncalled for.

For the second time: Can we get back to talking about what the game actually has to offer?

[Tech614]

Souls players might expect certain things from a FromSoftware title

You are aware From Software makes games that are not Souls and where around long before Souls was right? If so you should know how silly this sounds.

Like Tenchu was a thing in the 90s. This game is comparing far closer to it then Souls. From Software should not be doomed to only ever making souls games because "fans" who didn't even know they existed before Souls some how "expect" that of them.

[SirCowdog]

You are aware From Software makes games that are not Souls and where around long before Souls was right? If so you should know how silly this sounds.

Like Tenchu was a thing in the 90s. This game is comparing far closer to it then Souls. From Software should not be doomed to only ever making souls games because "fans" who didn't even know they existed before Souls some how "expect" that of them.

I'm a 42 year old gamer. Yes, I'm aware of From's other games. My first exposure was the King's Field 1 game, if that gives you an idea of my background with them.

Im done arguing about it though, since any point I could make would just stir the pot. I'd rather talk about specific game mechanics or tools Sekiro DOES have, since it doesn't have a couple things it might have had.

I guess there are different mods you can attach to the bionic arm or something? Do we know if there will also be different weapon types, or is it all katana?

[Tech614]

I'm a 42 year old gamer. Yes, I'm aware of From's other games.

So list me all your favorite non Souls From Software games and tell me why you liked them.

Really would love the opinions on why you think they are good but this game has to be like Souls in your mind.

Since you talk about what "from software fans expect" I can tell you as a fan of the studio I bought Demon's Souls day 1 with NO expectations other then thinking I would like it because of the studio and aesthetics. Back then you didn't see people crying about what Demon's Souls should or shouldn't be like on the internet.

Yet now that Souls is the ultimate video game meme all of their future games have expectations to be like them? I don't get your logic.

[Poppincaps]

Dark Souls is my favorite series by far, but I'm glad this is a departure from that. I was starting to grow tired of the formula after getting back to back games for so many years.

[Shinzai]

Why? Because it's clearly targeting the Soulslike community, and those players expect certain things from the genre. Stray too far from those expectations and you risk losing those customers.

For instance, Im already having second thoughts about the game now. I wanted another Souls game, not another Ninja Gaiden. Maybe Sekiro will be good on its own merits, but it sounds like it's missing the mark for Souls players.

Most Souls players seem to be enjoying it and tbh, not everyone wants another Souls game that plays exactly like Souls games.

Most of us want the worlds and lore and depth of souls games, with better combat mechanics.

In my opinion, Bloodborne was a huge step towards a more impressive gameplay experience.

Sekiro looks to offer a hugely refined combat experience, that has vastly more scope than any prior From game, while retaining the lore and world based story telling.

Further, to your questions about the arm, weapon, etc, they're answered in videos already linked in here.

To clarify though, as I stated, there's a series of tools to be collected that give different offensive, defensive and other options.



Each tool will offer a different way of fighting or interacting with the world, to varying degrees.

Further, there are also skill trees of actual purpose.



Rather than the usual Soulsborne skill increases of +1 Str till you hit 40 and such, you'll choose abilities from branching paths, that modify/change/improve the related skills, whether you want a more stealthy or more combatative build, etc.

[Zenfoldor]

Why? Because it's clearly targeting the Soulslike community, and those players expect certain things from the genre. Stray too far from those expectations and you risk losing those customers.

For instance, Im already having second thoughts about the game now. I wanted another Souls game, not another Ninja Gaiden. Maybe Sekiro will be good on its own merits, but it sounds like it's missing the mark for Souls players.

Wait a sec, I'm not so sure about the build diversity thing. Be careful accepting that as no spoilers, but some of the content I've seen maybe doesn't match up with that. Sorry to be vague, look at the post above mine for more info.

To be honest, I wish we were getting Bloodborne 2, but that doesn't mean that Sekiro can't be better than even Bloodborne 1. I am waiting to find out.

One thing I'm worried about it the MS story says it is only 12.58 GB. That's less than Bloodborne or Darksouls 3, so I hope it isn't short, or doesn't have too many reused textures.(or heaven-forbid not have many bosses) In comparison, 19+ GB for Darks Souls 3, and 27+ GB for Bloodborne.

Hopefully 12.58 gb is just the preload and there is more game that just hasn't been uploaded/partitioned in the preload(steam says 25gb for example). Or maybe they just used that 12.58gb very well and didn't sacrifice graphics or reuse too much stuff, or maybe they improve their compression, or reduced content overhead somehow.

Also yes, I realize file size means nothing because games may not contain equal textures, and some developers may have better/more compression methods....but From Software does not seem like the type of developer that would be on the cutting edge of compression technology. Fingers cross it's a nothingburger or just a pre-load number....but I'm officially worried about the game's length now.

I'm also over-analyzing because I care too much.

[Poppincaps]

Wait a sec, I'm not so sure about the build diversity thing. Be careful accepting that as no spoilers, but some of the content I've seen maybe doesn't match up with that. Sorry to be vague, look at the post above mine for more info.

To be honest, I wish we were getting Bloodborne 2, but that doesn't mean that Sekiro can't be better than even Bloodborne 1. I am waiting to find out.

One thing I'm worried about it the MS story says it is only 12.58 GB. That's less than Bloodborne or Darksouls 3, so I hope it isn't short, or doesn't have too many reused textures.(or heaven-forbid not have many bosses) In comparison, 19+ GB for Darks Souls 3, and 27+ GB for Bloodborne.

Hopefully 12.58 gb is just the preload and there is more game that just hasn't been uploaded/partitioned in the preload(steam says 25gb for example). Or maybe they just used that 12.58gb very well and didn't sacrifice graphics or reuse too much stuff, or maybe they improve their compression, or reduced content overhead somehow.

Also yes, I realize file size means nothing because games may not contain equal textures, and some developers may have better/more compression methods....but From Software does not seem like the type of developer that would be on the cutting edge of compression technology. Fingers cross it's a nothingburger or just a pre-load number....but I'm officially worried about the game's length now.

I'm also over-analyzing because I care too much.

Well you have to factor in that Dark Souls and Bloodborne have additional armor and weapon models and textures. Sekiro, you use the same weapon and some prosthetics and the same armor throughout the game (that we know of).

[Tech614]

Hopefully 12.58 gb is just the preload and there is more game that just hasn't been uploaded/partitioned in the preload(steam says 25gb for example). Or maybe they just used that 12.58gb very well and didn't sacrifice graphics or reuse too much stuff, or maybe they improve their compression, or reduced content overhead somehow.

Dark Souls 3 is 18 GB. When you factor in there isn't loads of armor and weapon textures that need to be in the game files it's really easy to imagine From having this game at 12.5 GB.

Besides the point From Software games have always been tiny compared to games released around them. Dark Souls 1 was 3 GB with the DLC installed(this was at a time when games where struggling to fit on 9GB Xbox 360 discs). Bloodborne is 27 GB with the old hunters installed(most PS4 exclusives are pushing close to 50).

This is the case because there isn't much voice recording done for the games, as well as they very rarely use video based cut scenes(usually only one per game). This saves chunks of file space.

[SirCowdog]

Most Souls players seem to be enjoying it and tbh, not everyone wants another Souls game that plays exactly like Souls games.

Most of us want the worlds and lore and depth of souls games, with better combat mechanics.

In my opinion, Bloodborne was a huge step towards a more impressive gameplay experience.

Sekiro looks to offer a hugely refined combat experience, that has vastly more scope than any prior From game, while retaining the lore and world based story telling.

Further, to your questions about the arm, weapon, etc, they're answered in videos already linked in here.

To clarify though, as I stated, there's a series of tools to be collected that give different offensive, defensive and other options.

Each tool will offer a different way of fighting or interacting with the world, to varying degrees.

Further, there are also skill trees of actual purpose.

Rather than the usual Soulsborne skill increases of +1 Str till you hit 40 and such, you'll choose abilities from branching paths, that modify/change/improve the related skills, whether you want a more stealthy or more combatative build, etc.

See, now that's good info. I wasn't aware of the skill trees, so that covers part of my comment early about lack of builds. Although I'm guessing you eventually unlock all of it?

And maybe at some point there'll be unlockable appearances similar to how Nioh handled cosmetics. Swap your entire character model for one of the other characters in the game. Not sure how this would interact with the arm though.

[RobertoCarlos]

Under a week away. Getting pretty hyped now.

This game looks pretty special, from the gameplay, to the world interactions and the story.

Its gonna have a god of war kratos/boi feel to it in terms of wanting to protect a future king/clan leader child protege?

Madness awaits either way