Avengers: Endgame (2019)

[Leih]

Or it's just shit writing. He should have snapped them back to their appropriate time. And since Cap made it to present day as an old man after the time travelling... I suspect the tangent universe theory is invalid.

The multiverse thing was made very clear by the Ancient One (they even had an in-movie diagram).

I just think Old Cap travelled back to his original timeline in some way using the device, rather than aging up naturally all the way to the present day... there's no other way it makes sense. It's either that or just a goof in the writing.

[Leih]

Like I said, it's shit writing.

Or, what I said.

[RobertoCarlos]

Then criticise the cringey comic book movie poster poses they do ALL THE TIME, rather than getting hung up over the fact that this one time there was one of those moments without a man there, lol.

My point was it was no more cringey or stupid than every other time the heroes stop mid battle in these films to do a cool pose they can use in posters, trailers and retrospectives in future. They did one for the ladies that might appeal to their female fans, big fucking whoop.

movie poster is totally different to a movie......

[Snuffleupagus]

Captain Marvel was pointless in the movie.

- The scene with Thanos headbutting her and her not flinching should have been Hulk, that would also have shown how Hulk gets stronger with rage considering he just found out about Nat
- Carol literally provides nothing to the immediate story and would be better served being introduced elsewhere
- Iron Man being saved by the Nova Corp would have tied in the wider universe better, or maybe being found by the remaining Asgardians
- Thor could and should have taken out Thanos' ship, he's done it before
- Pepper should have led the female characters, or literally any other female character who was still alive

I was actually okay with the rest of the movie, it tied up arcs quite neatly, or as neatly as you can when dealing with time travel. A couple of minor things though.

- Iron Man shouldn't have snapped Thanos out of existence, it should have shown him and his army being sent back to 2014 in order to preserve the timeline
- It's heavily implied that without the stones, the universe is fucked long term so they need to find a way to show how that's dealt with
- Loki creates issues now since he has an Infinity Stone in 2012, although maybe they resolve this in his upcoming TV series
- Not sure if it's within Captain America's character to sit out the conflict over the years, although he would be aware of the dangers of messing with the timeline

Good movie, not perfect, but very enjoyable.

Also, anyone who says Thor was incongruous with previous movies hasn't been paying attention.

[Leih]

movie poster is totally different to a movie......

Not sure if deliberately missed what I said to nitpick my word choices, or accidentally. But I can see this isn't going anywhere, so don't worry about it

[Aurrora]

That's not true because there was nothing changed. The Ancient One covered this. Also, that whole line of thinking is kind of BS anyway since Doctor Strange was able to reverse time to undo the destruction in his movie with the time stone. The only thing the movie established is that no Back to the Future style paradoxes or people fading out of existence would be possible in their version of time travel. As long as Steve was careful enough, he would be able to ride out the time stream back to the original future.

Just look at how they portrayed the time travel itself. It was like they were traveling down a river, choosing different paths. As long as he was careful enough, he could travel the right path outside the quantum realm to get back to where he was before he left on the platform.

There is no reason he was in an alternate reality. As the Ancient One showed, a parallel reality only breaks off if you do something to cause that. Nothing we were shown in any of the 21 movies says that old Steve wasn't there the whole time.

1) It causes a predestination paradox, something absolutely was changed if Old Steve and Young Steve are the same Steve, it means there were never 14 million possible futures because the 1 future where they won was already locked into place by Old Steve's presence in the timeline.

2) Presumably changing things with the time stone follows different rules, otherwise we're just following the "Bad End" branch of Infinity War when the timeline with Infinity Wars "Good End" also exists.

[Mormolyce]

Gunn was fired in July. Filming wrapped in October. While Infinity War and Endgame were filmed back to back in 2017, it is entirely possible that some of the reshoots were done to address possibilities related to Gunn's firing.

Mark Ruffalo also stated that at least five different endings were filmed for Endgame.

Yeah, no way to know what was reshot before vs after though. That I know of.

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1) It causes a predestination paradox, something absolutely was changed if Old Steve and Young Steve are the same Steve, it means there were never 14 million possible futures because the 1 future where they won was already locked into place by Old Steve's presence in the timeline.

Old Steve and Young Steve were always the same Steve. You just didn't see him because he kept out of the way so as not to alter the timeline.

There were 14 million possible futures. Time travelling Steve didn't affect Doctor Strange's decision on Titan in any way.

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So Peggy just stopped being friends with all of her old contacts lol?

Presumably they just got a cabin somewhere, and she'd come and see her old friends separately.

Or maybe by the time she retired from SHIELD Cap was so much older nobody recognised him anymore anyway. Certainly by the time of Avengers.

[MikeBogina]

IDK how to do spoiler thingy, but stop reading if you haven't seen the movie...

So when cap does the "hail hydra" that was kinda cool... But then he touches that times Cap with the staff/scepter and then has to give it back to Hydra... Did he just create a cap America hydra sleeper agent?

[RobertoCarlos]

IDK how to do spoiler thingy, but stop reading if this is a spoiler...

So when cap does the "hail hydra" that was kinda cool... But then he touches that times Cap with the staff/scepter and then has to give it back to Hydra... Did he just create a cap America hydra sleeper agent?

No it was just a nice throwback to the elevator scene and Cap being smart.

[Skulltaker]

Yeah, no way to know what was reshot before vs after though. That I know of.

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Old Steve and Young Steve were always the same Steve. You just didn't see him because he kept out of the way so as not to alter the timeline.

There were 14 million possible futures. Time travelling Steve didn't affect Doctor Strange's decision on Titan in any way.

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Presumably they just got a cabin somewhere, and she'd come and see her old friends separately.

Or maybe by the time she retired from SHIELD Cap was so much older nobody recognised him anymore anyway. Certainly by the time of Avengers.

You can see them living in the suburbs, in the 50es. Unless they live in a street full of Oldtimer enthusiasts. If you're telling me that not once, ever, someone saw him, that he spend these 70 years in the house, you haven't been paying attention. They would have been seen togethter, and Cap was such a prominent figure in the US that someone would have had to recognize him.

But that's not the major problem. Peggy Carter married a US soldier that was freed by Steve Rogers, somewhere near Stalingrad, if I recall correctly. People[I] were[/I] at her wedding. She speaks about a husband, in an interview. Do you honestly think that none of her friends would have asked to meet this US soldier? Her describing him kind of narrows the number of possible candidates down, and SHIELD would double-check [I]everything[/I] about his agents, even as prominent as Peggy. If not, then at the very least HYDRA would have made inquiries.

The only way the movie makes sense if you accept branching timelines with the possibility to alter your own future, which is exactly what Back to the Future did. You can alter your future by changing your past.

And since that's the case, they have fucked up at least one universe to save their own, by removing Gamora from it. Guardians don't form, Ronan the Accuser obliterates a few planets, and a couple of years later ego devours Quill and destroys all life in that timeline.

Also, Cap has to rebuild the Tesseract and the Staff to return them. And they were not the only items that were removed from the timelines. Remember the Baseball Glove? Yeah, another timeline altered.

[Aurrora]

Old Steve and Young Steve were always the same Steve. You just didn't see him because he kept out of the way so as not to alter the timeline.

There were 14 million possible futures. Time travelling Steve didn't affect Doctor Strange's decision on Titan in any way.

Even if you ignore all the butterfly effects it would cause just existing affects the timeline. His past was the future, he could not exist if the Avengers didn't win the battle against Thanos, therefor there was never any possible future other than the one where Steve returned to the past with the Infinity Stones.

[Leih]

You literally said they fucked up in the writing, so I’m glad we’re on the same page.

No, I said a fuck up in the writing is the only alternative to what I said - meaning I believe what I said to be the correct answer, cause I don't think they'd fuck up that badly.

[RobertoCarlos]

No, I said a fuck up in the writing is the only alternative to what I said - meaning I believe what I said to be the correct answer, cause I don't think they'd fuck up that badly.

Personal experience doesnt excuse bad writing. Im glad you had a good experience. I did too mostly. But its hard to ignore glaring problems just because you're a fan. Its ok to say whats good and bad about a film.

[Leih]

Personal experience doesnt excuse bad writing. Im glad you had a good experience. I did too mostly. But its hard to ignore glaring problems just because you're a fan. Its ok to say whats good and bad about a film.

Your response has nothing to do with what you quoted.

[RobertoCarlos]

Your response has nothing to do with what you quoted.

you seem more interested in scoring "points" than actually having a discussion on the movie?

[Leih]

you seem more interested in scoring "points" than actually having a discussion on the movie?

I was thinking the EXACT SAME THING about you?

I'd like to discuss a real reason anyone thinks that what I deduced couldn't possibly be the logical explanation and dicuss that but all I get posting here is people coming back with junk like "Lol you said it COULD be bad writing therefore I'm right, it was bad writing thanks for agreeing with me dummy lmao"

[Nasuuna]

I need to sleep for work in 7 hours and I'm fucking wired.

Wonder if Endgame is going to get the Return of the King treatment and get all previous movies added into itself for an oscar

[RobertoCarlos]

I was thinking the EXACT SAME THING about you?

I'd like to discuss a real reason anyone thinks that what I deduced couldn't possibly be the logical explanation and dicuss that but all I get posting here is people coming back with junk like "Lol you said it COULD be bad writing therefore I'm right, it was bad writing thanks for agreeing with me dummy lmao"

Sorry theres a lot of different subjects going on at once, are you talking about the all female pose scene or something else?

[RobertoCarlos]

I need to sleep for work in 7 hours and I'm fucking wired.

Wonder if Endgame is going to get the Return of the King treatment and get all previous movies added into itself for an oscar

As a send off to a 10 year arc the film is fantastic. As a standalone film, not so much.

[Skulltaker]

That would require the 10 previous films being something Oscar worthy. With the MCU that's not really the case. They're entertaining, but they're rarely profound in any way. Or a significant achievement aside from box office.

Some technical breakthroughs in CGI, see the de-aging in Captain Marvel. As much as that movie bored me, that was rather impressive.