[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Byuiso]

What I read was "I think the night king is the coolest villain in the series, so therefore he must have a bigger role to play than any other villain." You didn't even bother to make an argument, you just reiterated your opinion that you like him more than the others. I don't know why but that's ok. Also, not "Everyone" was talking about the night king. The only people talking about it prior to season 7 was Jon and his followers. Maybe I missed something, but Jon and his gang of wildlings aren't "Everyone" right? What other renowned houses helped with Jon because they believed in him? Dany didn't even believe him at first, she just wanted him to bend the knee.

You must be neck deep in fan fiction if you're in this much denial.

It has nothing to do with the Night King being the coolest.

The Night King was the living embodiment of death and the walking representation of how trivial the Game of Thrones was. He was always the true villain just because the show didn't give him his due and much needed story he was still the ancient evil who will wipe everyone out and did not care who sat on the Iron Throne.
The same army that destroyed King Landing's and devastated the Lannisters/Golden Company got completely eviscerated by the Night King and they had an extra dragon. It showed how the living were in for a beating if they did not get their act together. Just because Cersei was demented doesn't mean she wasn't absolutely wrong because she was. Qyburn who was loyal to her until the end was scared and worried when he learned of The Wall falling, Jaime abandoned her because he knew what was needed.

Blame D&D for not treating the Night King and White Walkers the way they should've.

The problem truly is D&D rushed and botched season 7 & 8. Great score, great cinematography but terrible writing. I am not sure why HBO didn't consider continuing without D&D and the writing these last 2 seasons couldn't suffer much worse without them.

[Shadowferal]

From the sounds of things, it was all kind of a big "So what?"
But then from what I understand, if there was a point to the series it was all about how harsh the world was and how pointlessly cruel anyway.
So...it should have met everyone's expectations..

[Magnagarde]

I like this ending very much. Her descent into a mad form of righteousness was evident for quite a while. Jon did the right thing and his arc came to a conclusion that is true to his own self.

It is regretful that the timetable for the show's final season was this limited because the various arcs could've used a lot more love in the form of screentime.

[RobertoCarlos]

Vary's death was so quick to gave me whip lash.

"Dany is the best Queen for westeros! lets help her from the other side of the world"

"ok shes not lets tell her closest friends how evil she is and lets poison her"

"Whoops im dead hope im wrong"

[Gasparde]

What I read was "I think the night king is the coolest villain in the series, so therefore he must have a bigger role to play than any other villain."

No one on this planet has ever said something even just remotely close to that.

You didn't even bother to make an argument, you just reiterated your opinion that you like him more than the others.

At no point did I talk about anything like 'liking' a character. There's no personal taste or opinion involved here.

Also, not "Everyone" was talking about the night king. The only people talking about it prior to season 7 was Jon and his followers. Maybe I missed something, but Jon and his gang of wildlings aren't "Everyone" right?

Everyone has heard tales of the white walkers, although barely anyone believed them. Yet anyone who's been close to the wall knew that the NK was the big endgame. And the second Jon told anyone of said threat everyone started believing and following him. How many people followed Jon when he wanted to reclaim Winterfell? Like 4 small houses? Yet literally 90% of the world were willing to follow Jon into battle against the army of the dead.

What other renowned houses helped with Jon because they believed in him? Dany didn't even believe him at first, she just wanted him to bend the knee

Everyone in the north believed him, quite literally everyone followed him after the battle of the bastards (except for like house Umber, they bailed iirc). Everyone in the north knew Jon wasn't talking shit, they took his word and they were willing to fight for him - even if it meant fighting alongside wildlings. And Danny, despite not believing him and despite Jon not beding the knee still ended up following him - even after losing a fucking child to the NK she still thought it was worth it to risk her whole army, her other children and her dream of conquering the world.

You must be neck deep in fan fiction if you're in this much denial.

Great argument. Because clearly everything I've been saying is shit that hasn't happened in the show, yet you keep bringing up your arguments about a no-name necromancer. We were shown the white walker threat since episode 1, anyone who's ever been in contact with them kept talking about how petty politics don't mean shit because in the end everyone's just gonna be another body in the army of the dead. Even Danny was willing to fucking give up her dream and get backstabbed by Cersei because if the NK won there'd be no 7 realms to rule over. The NK was always made out to be the ultimate evil. That's not fanfic, that's not reading shit between the lines, that not me expecting something from a random undead necromancer, that's what the show made abundantly clear. Until they eventually changed their mind and the NK became a random 1-episode villain who just wanted to mess with Bran for some personal vendetta bullshit reasons - because, clearly, erasing the world's memory of humankind and only then going for humankind itself is the most logical approach to this whole situation.

But it's rather obvious to see denial going on here as it's obviously just me not understanding about the random necromancer whereas Sansa once said that Cersei is the most dangerous woman int he world, which was clearly foreshadowing that the NK was just a random necromancer whimp. Whatever, I'll stick to my fanfic then fellow GoT-in-depth-understanding-person.

[Celista]

I have a suspicion that in at least 1 or 2 of the spin offs, things will be resolved. At least I hope so, The only Spin off we know about takes place like 1000 years before this, I think . But they easily could do a Arya spin off and a Jon Snow spin off.

I like Arya's character a lot but I don't think Maisie Williams has the charisma for a lead actor in a spinoff. Kit Harrington does but I'm not sure he has emotional range as an actor. Could just be due to his depiction of Jon Snow, but shrug. Seemed to struggle in scenes were he had to show intense emotion.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

The cripple is King to which throne?

The Wheeled Throne obviously

[crakerjack]

It has nothing to do with the Night King being the coolest.

The Night King was the living embodiment of death and the walking representation of how trivial the Game of Thrones was. He was always the true villain just because the show didn't give him his due and much needed story he was still the ancient evil who will wipe everyone out and did not care who sat on the Iron Throne.
The same army that destroyed King Landing's and devastated the Lannisters/Golden Company got completely eviscerated by the Night King and they had an extra dragon. It showed how the living were in for a beating if they did not get their act together. Just because Cersei was demented doesn't mean she wasn't absolutely wrong because she was. Qyburn who was loyal to her until the end was scared and worried when he learned of The Wall falling, Jaime abandoned her because he knew what was needed.

Blame D&D for not treating the Night King and White Walkers the way they should've.

The problem truly is D&D rushed and botched season 7 & 8. Great score, great cinematography but terrible writing. I am not sure why HBO didn't consider continuing without D&D and the writing these last 2 seasons couldn't suffer much worse without them.

The night king is nothing more than a human sacrificed to become a necromancer, that's it. Every little gap you or anyone else wants to fill is simply fanfiction. Nowhere was it said he was the embodiment of death, that's your words showcasing your bias for him. I too read into the fanfiction and some of the theories were pretty enticing, but I knew they wouldn't play out after the night king origin story. He was a human sacrificed to become a weapon, so there's no way any of the fan fictions were going to pan out.

You loved the night king and wanted him to be the main threat badly, but that's not the shows fault, that's kind of your own. If you're upset with how the show ended, I think it has to do more with your expectations rather than the quality of the writing. I too agree the pacing was a little off, but I wouldn't say the writing is horrible, not even close.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

How many peasants and minor lords are going to feel confident about a King called Bran the Broken ? Doesnt exactly inspire you to believe in your ruler. And lets be honest, that spiel about Never again shall a king be chosen because of bloodlines is gonna last exactly 1 generation

Plus usually sovereign get their nicknames posthumously...

[Black Goat]

The entire purpose of series was to show that ultimately the GOT was waste of time because All of Mankind was going to be wiped away by a Massive Magical being. But teh writers through that away and just said fuck it all, here is a bunch of ending for these characters now fuck off so we can go make our Disney Star Wars money

I'm sorry, but how do you know this? You can't possibly know the original intent of the series as a whole, or even begin to surmise that the nonsense you wrote was the "supposed conclusion" to the series. Please indicate where you ascertained this information, otherwise you're just making shit up. You as an individual have no clue what the "entire purpose of the series" was, give us a break.

The people i general dont know anything about Bran. All they now know is that some crippled autistic kid from the north is suddenly going tobe their ruler, oh and he has visions and controls birds...After having a series of crazy ass rulers fucking them over, I seriously doubt that the people would sit buy and allow this to happen. There would be massive rebellions . The armies would turn on their leaders .

Bran is not autistic. You describe him as if he's just some snot-nosed brat with a mental illness. It says a lot about you to make suggestions like this, please try to keep that in check, because they are inaccurate and disingenuous. The "people in general" didn't know much about Goffrey, either, did they? And he was nothing but a narcissistic asshole. Yet somehow putting Bran on the throne is going to cause mass panic? What are you on about, dude?

Massive rebellions? Armies would turn on their leaders AKA families AKA banner houses? You have some problems, man, but none of those outcomes are even remotely true.

Bran Stark, and all the Brans before him, were very influential and important people in the history of Westeros. You clearly only see him for face value, effectively judging a book by its cover. Game of Thrones requires more mental agility then that, I'm afraid.

[Dystemper]

The night king is nothing more than a human sacrificed to become a necromancer, that's it. Every little gap you or anyone else wants to fill is simply fanfiction. Nowhere was it said he was the embodiment of death, that's your words showcasing your bias for him. I too read into the fanfiction and some of the theories were pretty enticing, but I knew they wouldn't play out after the night king origin story. He was a human sacrificed to become a weapon, so there's no way any of the fan fictions were going to pan out.

You loved the night king and wanted him to be the main threat badly, but that's not the shows fault, that's kind of your own. If you're upset with how the show ended, I think it has to do more with your expectations rather than the quality of the writing. I too agree the pacing was a little off, but I wouldn't say the writing is horrible, not even close.

First of all he wasnt just a "human". He was one of the "first Men" . And he didnt just become a necromancer. He became something much much more. Immortal with God like powers . He was The destroyer of the world . At this point you are just being argumentative and trolling because the focus of the show was that the NK was the penultimate evil inthe world who was going to wipe out all of the living . The further south he went, the more powerful he became because he raised ALL THE DEAD . Not just freshly killed , all the dead rose at his command and served him. He controlled the weather ( giant ice storms) , he could only be harmed by a few things etc etc.

[Jastall]

It had great imagery . Her walking in front of Drogon and looking like she sprouted Wings was fucking awesome. My only issue between Jon and Dany in the Throne room was she had no guards with her at all

The imagery in the entire season is amazing, save the darkness in episode 3. If I would rate cinematography, I would give these guys an A, they blow most movies completely out of the water. Sadly the writing does not follow suit at all. I will however forgive the guard thing because Dany had Drogon protecting the entrance to her, and he probably wouldn't have allowed anyone but Jon and maybe Grey Worm in. It does mean that Arya had a free kill had she bothered to be useful, but after giving her the Night King they had to nerf the piss out of her which only highlights how bad a decision it was for them to do that.

I will also praise the dynamic between Tyrion (who was finally, finally himself after almost three seasons of uselessness) and Jon which was perfect, and some characters such as Sansa were on point. Most of the concluded arcs were fine-ish, such as Brienne penning Jaime's pages in the Golden Book or Jon ending up north of the Wall where he truly belongs after the South no longer holds anything for him.

That said, Bran being acclaimed king because 'he tells stories lol" was stupid. Everyone just up and agreeing for the North to be special snowflakes who get to be independent was stupid. Bronn being one of the most powerful men in Westeros now was stupid. Grey Worm not executing Jon was stupid. Deciding to base Westeros's future on an elective monarchy is stupid and should by all rights lead to even more strife and wars than before. The ending was overall too saccharine for me, and most of all was saccharine because we're expected to believe against reason that all this will turn out OK.

Still, I had feels, and not just negative ones, so this is still the second best episode of the season after, well, the second one. Not that high a standard due to season 8 being the worst of the show, but it doesn't end on a terrible note, more like a bittersweet one, albeit not the right kind of bittersweet. I'll try to remember Game of Thrones for what it was, and not what it turned into.

And please, please let GRRM finish the books now. I'd really do hate for this to be the only way A Song of Ice and Fire ends.

[Dystemper]

I'm sorry, but how do you know this? You can't possibly know the original intent of the series as a whole, or even begin to surmise that the nonsense you wrote was the "supposed conclusion" to the series. Please indicate where you ascertained this information, otherwise you're just making shit up. You as an individual have no clue what the "entire purpose of the series" was, give us a break.




Bran is not autistic. You describe him as if he's just some snot-nosed brat with a mental illness. It says a lot about you to make suggestions like this, please try to keep that in check, because they are inaccurate and disingenuous. The "people in general" didn't know much about Goffrey, either, did they? And he was nothing but a narcissistic asshole. Yet somehow putting Bran on the throne is going to cause mass panic? What are you on about, dude?

Massive rebellions? Armies would turn on their leaders AKA families AKA banner houses? You have some problems, man, but none of those outcomes are even remotely true.

Bran Stark, and all the Brans before him, were very influential and important people in the history of Westeros. You clearly only see him for face value, effectively judging a book by its cover. Game of Thrones requires more mental agility then that, I'm afraid.

LOL you made a alt account just to try and insult me? Seriously? Tell me how any one who didnt know Bran would describe him ? Because he sure as hell not normal. Can you honestly say thatBran does not appear to have some mental problems to anyone outside of his immediate family that does not know his story?


You seriously think the People of Westeros outside of the North Know as much about Bran as they would Joffrey, "Son" of King Robert Baratheon and Cersei Lannister? Not to mention that for most of the series, Everyone thought Bran was dead and gone . I seriously Doubt the people south of Winterfell gave 2 shits about the North to the point of keeping tab on whos who. And to the average person in Westeros, Bran would appear to have some kind of mental issues. He no longer has any emotions, very aloof and is really no longer capable of cennecting with people on a emotional level. I am sure the average person in Kings Landing would look at him and think " Oh he must be some sort of super wizard who can see the futire, the past and control animals" yeah that seems legit. That explains why everyone that knew Hodor didnt think he was some crazy guy with limited mental capacity and instead a hero who held off the White walkers by holding a door. I mean how did they not instantly know what he did?

[Dystemper]

That's the most frustrating part of this: the bones of a good story are there. The twists and turns, the betrayals, epic battles, surprising reveals. To be fair, it would have been hard to put it on screen, and I think that D&D faced a huge challenge in satisfying book readers who:

A. Were used to a far more in depth story than can be conveyed on TV
B. Were used to consuming huge chunks of story at a time via a book instead of episodic television where you can spend a week theorizing about the next thing every time a new episode comes out.

So it was a really challenging hill to climb. That said, they didn't do a good job - they rushed it too much, and they telegraphed the next step far too frequently (see the "previously seen" section of episode 4 where they showed a close up of Daenerys with all this ominous voice over about how Targaryens are crazy, or how they spend two episodes telling us how the Night King's army was unbeatable unless they could somehow kill the Night King, and that's exactly how it played out in episode 3, only surprise was who killed him. They also focused on spectacle and lost track of character motivations.

HBO could have gone 4 more seasons , if D&D didnt want to then someone else could have stepped in. D&D wanted that sweet sweet Disney money so they just rushed it and made it a shit show of a season.

[RobertoCarlos]

Also Bronn who nearly killed a dragon in earlier seasons did nothing this season even though there was 2 big wars.

Ball. Dropped.

[Flurryfang]

Also Bronn who nearly killed a dragon in earlier seasons did nothing this season even though there was 2 big wars.

Ball. Dropped.

He was a popular character, which equals important part in the ending.

Everyone had to have a happy ending, right???

[Dystemper]

Also Bronn who nearly killed a dragon in earlier seasons did nothing this season even though there was 2 big wars.

Ball. Dropped.

YEah and making him master of coins? Who the fuck thought giving a theif and Merc that job would be a good idea?

[RobertoCarlos]

He was a popular character, which equals important part in the ending.

Everyone had to have a happy ending, right???

"Im done with fighting!"

SuBvErTeD

[Grapemask]

That's the most frustrating part of this: the bones of a good story are there. The twists and turns, the betrayals, epic battles, surprising reveals. To be fair, it would have been hard to put it on screen, and I think that D&D faced a huge challenge in satisfying book readers who:

A. Were used to a far more in depth story than can be conveyed on TV
B. Were used to consuming huge chunks of story at a time via a book instead of episodic television where you can spend a week theorizing about the next thing every time a new episode comes out.

So it was a really challenging hill to climb. That said, they didn't do a good job - they rushed it too much, and they telegraphed the next step far too frequently (see the "previously seen" section of episode 4 where they showed a close up of Daenerys with all this ominous voice over about how Targaryens are crazy, or how they spend two episodes telling us how the Night King's army was unbeatable unless they could somehow kill the Night King, and that's exactly how it played out in episode 3, only surprise was who killed him). They also focused on spectacle and lost track of character motivations.

What's frustrating is that they did just fine in the first few seasons. That's where there real embarrassment comes from. They have no ability to create a decent story without someone else to write even halfway competent source material.

I honestly think that they relied so heavily on GRRM's material for the first few seasons that they never bothered to hire decent writers. No one at any Hollywood professional level would churn out anything like season 8 - or really season 7, but season 8 felt like an intern's work. And not like a really good intern who was hired at the best company from a competitive lineup of really talented folks because he's destined to be the next Big Thing, but the shitty intern who got hired at the end of spring because the company needed an intern for the writeoff but wanted the real desperate ones who would take a pay cut or no paycheck at all just to get an internship.

[Dystemper]

"The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends. It is no matter to them if the high lords play their game of thrones, so long as they are left in peace. They never are."

This is a quote direct from the first book. Most people would be happy that the rulers had agreed on someone to take over, and that he seems mostly harmless.

The real issue is whether a dude like the new Prince of Dorne or the Yara would try to break away.

But we are not talking about the book, and in the series you just had years and years of one crazy ruler after another and a series of endless wars . I think in this point in time in Westeros, the people are gonna be quite caring who is ruling them. They just dodged a bullet with Queen Hitler Stormborn , first to burn the fuck out of you.

And where was the Bravosi delegate, or a rep from the Iron Bank ? you would think they would be in on this little council