Dutch rape victim, 17, uses legal euthanasia to end life

[Orwell7]

Is this kid too dense to understand certain countries have different laws?

Lol alrighty.

As I read the article, I was speechless. And then coming and reading a few pages here, I am truly stunned.
First of all, you have more than 5000 comments in a forum, and I'm pretty sure you have lots in other media as well. I can't seem to notice that you cannot argue with logic, yet you THINK you are more than everyone else.
Fact: no life is worth more than another. Not yours, not mine, not the rapists, not the 17 year old girl's have more "priority".

This is where you get your life wrong: no matter how educated, poor, intelligent or arrogant someone may be, you ARE NOT better than them. There is no hierarchy in that sense, do you get it?
The world we live in has it's rules - but you know that WE make the rules? You and I, and everyone who agrees with us.

Unfortunately there are no real discussions anymore. You are just as arrogant as the ones you attack. You think because you don't understand them, they are less intelligent than you - guess what, in my eyes, you are the bottom of the intelligence chain here, BECAUSE you don't bother to understand, and just talk everyone down from your high horse.

This type of attitude leads to aggression and rape. I am working with big data right now, and it's scary to see the profiles of "wannabe" murderers. Be really careful which path you take!
Compassion and understanding WILL lead to a better life - if you practice using these, you don't really need the adrenaline rush these "witty" attacks produce.

I am trying to help you here. Why? There are lot of things in this world we still don't understand, so I'm calling it a hunch that I needed to write this.

[LiiLoSNK]

If you insist. 17 years is plenty of time to decide you want out; but by all means demand that they stay alive to satisfy your sense of "what is proper".

Are you Me'ing right now?

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

And 18 is? These are just numbers, there is no signifigant (if any) difference in maturity between the two.

no, 18 is not the age either. i already said i think it should be reserved for people in constant, untreatable physical pain. never for a mental issue. society needs to do better at helping people like her (i know that's beating an old drum but its the truth).

[AeneasBK]

Are you Me'ing right now?

I don't get it.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

If you insist. 17 years is plenty of time to decide you want out; but by all means demand that they stay alive to satisfy your sense of "what is proper".

i disagree. i made a lot of stupid decisions when i was 17. so did my friends. so did my acquaintances. so did my frenemies.

[zorkuus]

no, 18 is not the age either. i already said i think it should be reserved for people in constant, untreatable physical pain. never for a mental issue. society needs to do better at helping people like her (i know that's beating an old drum but its the truth).

She was refusing to eat. I count that as physical.

[DSRilk]

I'm glad we have a dr in the forum. After a thorough reading of the case and intensive interviews with the victim, what course of action would you have taken. Oh wait... Maybe you should mind your own business. Stop projecting your values onto others. Makes you look bigoted.

Bigoted? Because I understand the basic biology of the human body? Bigoted because I don't think a teen committing suicide is the same as a person with terminal cancer committing suicide? That is an incredibly odd definition of bigoted. And expressing opinions are what this forum is for; if you want to call that "projecting values," be my guest. I also think we shouldn't kill each other as a general rule; I assume that is also projecting my values, and I'm okay with that.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

She was refusing to eat. I count that as physical.

you know exactly what i mean man. and refusing to eat is all mental to me. nothing was physically stopping her from eating. her jaw wasnt wired, her arms werent broken. her brain told her not to.

[LiiLoSNK]

As I read the article, I was speechless. And then coming and reading a few pages here, I am truly stunned.
First of all, you have more than 5000 comments in a forum, and I'm pretty sure you have lots in other media as well. I can't seem to notice that you cannot argue with logic, yet you THINK you are more than everyone else.
Fact: no life is worth more than another. Not yours, not mine, not the rapists, not the 17 year old girl's have more "priority".

This is where you get your life wrong: no matter how educated, poor, intelligent or arrogant someone may be, you ARE NOT better than them. There is no hierarchy in that sense, do you get it?
The world we live in has it's rules - but you know that WE make the rules? You and I, and everyone who agrees with us.

Unfortunately there are no real discussions anymore. You are just as arrogant as the ones you attack. You think because you don't understand them, they are less intelligent than you - guess what, in my eyes, you are the bottom of the intelligence chain here, BECAUSE you don't bother to understand, and just talk everyone down from your high horse.

This type of attitude leads to aggression and rape. I am working with big data right now, and it's scary to see the profiles of "wannabe" murderers. Be really careful which path you take!
Compassion and understanding WILL lead to a better life - if you practice using these, you don't really need the adrenaline rush these "witty" attacks produce.

I am trying to help you here. Why? There are lot of things in this world we still don't understand, so I'm calling it a hunch that I needed to write this.

You opened with the coolest response and then said literally nothing beside talking about how I am arrogant. Everyone here knows this, brainiac.

My attitude doesn't lead to rape, unless you're talking about me verbally raping idiots who oppose me.

Why? Because I feel like it. Thanks for your post instead of just putting it in my infinite sea of hate-mail.

Ironically I think I have one of OP calling me a faggot.

[Kumorii]

You never had a valid point and you still don't. It's not right to kill yourself in your teens and any parent that let's you do that is a shit parent.

This is common sense for most.

No you! No wonder people argue this way, it's easy.

[zorkuus]

you know exactly what i mean man. and refusing to eat is all mental to me. nothing was physically stopping her from eating. her jaw wasnt wired, her arms werent broken. her brain told her not to.

What I meant was that not eating leads to physical pain.
What is force feeding supposed to accomplish here when the treatments to her mental problems (therapy etc.) weren't working?

[horbindr]

Anyone at any age can have mental suffering. It's just a literal certainty that their brains will definitely develop since then if they're having mental troubles at 17. Will they for sure get over it? No. But they will mature further. If you still want to kill yourself then go ahead.

If you're at the age where your brain isn't done evolving and your mom is like, yeah she's sad kill her, then that's wrong. It gets better. Many people in this thread confirm this from actual experience.

thats why the doctor also has to consider the likelihood if it getting better in the decision. which in this case wasn't deemed very stellar.

it's about minimizing suffering if you ask me. this girl has already suffered 6 years, and now she has to suffer another what? 8-13 years? before she is developed enough to be able to say she can cope or not?

where do you draw the line? when is there enough outlook to justify the suffering? when it is better to just stop the suffering? some people recover from stuff like this, some don't, it's all case by case.

i'm fine leaving that decision with a doctor. heck make it require 2 doctors to approve.

keep in mind these doctors have to administer the lethal drugs themselves, i don't think any of them would do that if they didn't believe it was the right thing.

[Chemii]

Is this kid too dense to understand certain countries have different laws?

Lol alrighty.

This kid, is 34.

Amidst the clouds are you racist? Don't believe the Dutch have strict medical laws to abide by when dealing with a person who wants to end their own life? How arrogant can you be? You are talking about a highly developed European nation, one with a high standard of living and a very liberal people, a government that requires health insurance, no voodoo magic at work here.

Your arrogance is incredible and you are very ignorant.

[Flurryfang]

Because no sane adult should be okay with children killing themselves instead of getting proper help for their problems. What the fuck is this even ahrjwfdjgjehaygdvsbbah

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By making sure a patient who refuses to eat lives long enough to get treatment for their mental health issues?

As i said, it was quite clear that she was getting the prober help for her problems.....but it just did not work. We can't fix everything and being tramatized to a point, where you don't want to live anymore, is proberly one of them.

But would you really be alright with it, if we just kept her alive 1 year and then let her kill herself? What is really the difference, especially when she has been in this state for 2-3 years. I think any doctor would say, that it is extremly unlikely, that she will get any better before 1 year, so we are pretty much just torturing a girl by keeping her alive against her own will and apperantly that of her mother.

Again, if we were talking about a 7 year old, i get it, but she is 17. She is old enough to be a parent, to live by herself and be independent. I think she has the right to choose her own demise aswell if that is what she wants.

Edit: You make it sound like if they just kept her locked up long enough, she would be alright. Sorry to break it to you, but somebody just never get back to alright, always in pain and sadness. At that point, it would be more inhumane to lock them up in a soft wall room, in a straight jacket and force feeding them than helping them die.

[LiiLoSNK]

No you! No wonder people argue this way, it's easy.

Again, it's not an argument. I said it's not right to let people with underdeveloped brains kill themselves and you've yet to prove me wrong.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

What I meant was that not eating leads to physical pain.
What is force feeding supposed to accomplish here when the treatments to her mental problems (therapy etc.) weren't working?

this is where i think we can start to agree. i don't like the idea of forced anything. but i will go as far as heavily influencing someone by exhausting every option that I have at my expense. her want to die is equal to my want to see someone come out of their mental dungeon and live a happy life. i would feel compelled to try to stop her up until the very second the needle went in her arm.

BUT as far as her eating goes, after a week of not eating if you put a plate of her favorite food in front of her and walked away i bet she eats. that would take some serious mental fortitude to push the plate away.

[Kumorii]

But can there be informed consent in this case. How can you consent when you are suffering from psychosis?

I mean doctors are often concerned that terminal patients ask for assisted suicide because of depression instead of their condition which is why you have to consistently ask for it over several months. So how can we make the argument when depression is the reason you are asking for suicide; that means we are being inconsistent.

That's the tricky part. You can never guarantee consent in these cases. Does it mean they should suffer for years and years until they kill themselves through other means because we can't make sure it's trough consent?

All we can do is try and help as much as we can to rule out that there is a treatment that is effective. That goes for almost ll illnesses though. Sometimes hard decision have to be made and this is one of the hardest.

I think the biggest reason they went through the legal system for this wasn't because she couldn't or wouldn't kill herself if it was provided, but that it gives closure between daughter and mother.

This is a way for them to say goodbye on their terms and with some closure rather than finding her daughter dead in a tub or getting a call from a hospital that she killed herself.

I think there is some value to be had in that tbh.

[horbindr]

i disagree. i made a lot of stupid decisions when i was 17. so did my friends. so did my acquaintances. so did my frenemies.

how many of these stupid decisions did you get locked up 6+ months for? how many of those did you repeat again afterwards?

[Darkimpact]

Sounds like attention seeking and the young of the age led to stupid decisions.....

What a callous self serving comment...

[DSRilk]

And 18 is? These are just numbers, there is no signifigant (if any) difference in maturity between the two.

There is a difference between 17 at 26; the average age at which the brain has fully developed. There's also some minor difference between 17 and 18, but honestly I agree, not enough to make it okay then either imo.

From their medical center talking about research into this area... "Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain’s rational part. This is the part of the brain that responds to situations with good judgment and an awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with the amygdala. This is the emotional part."

https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyc...ContentID=3051

I am not comfortable ending a kid's life when they are in a pre-conditioned emotional state that will end in a few years, when they will spend the rest of their lives thinking with a very different part of the brain. If they finally hit that age and they're still unable to get past it... then it's terribly sad, but do what you will.