Warcraft Logs in Classic

[urasim]

As a mage in MC you push frost bolt. Before frost bolt you push frost bolt. After frost bolt you push frost bolt. Inbetween all this you push frost bolt again.

Yeah, let's pick the only class in the only instance this happens in to show that this isn't needed......... Disingenuous to the absolute extreme. Plus. Some mages are better than others. How about movement? Mag has a fear. The smart mage put himself in a spot where even if he was feared he's not out of range of boss and doesn't have to move to dps again. Meaning a smart mage will get more frostbolts in and more damage. This will tell us all about what mages are smart and what mages need improvement. This isn't just for Mag. This can be said for every boss.

Plus, cherry picking mages is so dumb when there are other classes that benifits WAY more from this. Warrior and rogue get more out of this then mages. What's the uptime on dots? What's the uptime on SnD? What's the uptime on cooldowns? What is everyone using for potions and flasks and food? People who only point to fucking mage is dishonest and should be mocked.

To improve DPS you just to use your consumes, get your world buffs, hope you dont get ganked with world buffs before getting to the zone, hope you don't get picked for an unavoidable death in a raid mechanic early in, dont die stupidly, get a tank with better TPS.

Nothing of which you really need a log on.

No, not just those things. You're probably one of the players that will likely need this the most. Yet you're too stubborn to understand this.

No one is saying bad players won't exsist. But isnt this pretty easy to just see with ths in game damage meter and not a logging addon and software to break it down?

The ingame meter isn't perfect and doesn't capture everything. A raid leader isn't going to go through every fight and look at recount for 40 people. I'm sure they'd like to enjoy the game, too. Yes, they'll look at the absolute lowest people, but they're not going to go deep analysis on everyone.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Yeah, let's pick the only class in the only instance this happens in to show that this isn't needed......... Disingenuous to the absolute extreme. Plus. Some mages are better than others. How about movement? Mag has a fear. The smart mage put himself in a spot where even if he was feared he's not out of range of boss and doesn't have to move to dps again. Meaning a smart mage will get more frostbolts in and more damage. This will tell us all about what mages are smart and what mages need improvement. This isn't just for Mag. This can be said for every boss.

Plus, cherry picking mages is so dumb when there are other classes that benifits WAY more from this. Warrior and rogue get more out of this then mages. What's the uptime on dots? What's the uptime on SnD? What's the uptime on cooldowns? What is everyone using for potions and flasks and food? People who only point to fucking mage is dishonest and should be mocked.



No, not just those things. You're probably one of the players that will likely need this the most. Yet you're too stubborn to understand this.



The ingame meter isn't perfect and doesn't capture everything. A raid leader isn't going to go through every fight and look at recount for 40 people. I'm sure they'd like to enjoy the game, too. Yes, they'll look at the absolute lowest people, but they're not going to go deep analysis on everyone.

You get a little worked up over things. At least It doesn't affect me.

[taishar68]

A lot of good feedback here; some trolling, but hey, everyone has to do their thing.

I just wanted to emphasize that I’m not blind to the fact that logs can provide a lot of detail in regards to a raid fight, and that it can be an invaluable tool on progression fights where one or two things can lead to a wipe.

I don’t think Classic will need that level of scrutiny.

[erifwodahs]

Its good for tacking fuck ups.
Its good for tracking kills.
Its good for tracking consumable use.
Its good for tracking who the fuck did not stop dps.
Its good to track mana usage.
Its good to track debuff applications.
Its good for tracking positioning.
Its good for tracking your position among other *your class*. "It's all about loot" is irrelevant, as you could say the same about retail. Even if top 5% will be loot advantage, you can get into top 10% by not being mongoloid. Being better than 50% parse means you are better than average in your mana/consum/downtime game.
Its good for tracking who did not heal their assigned party.

[Charge me Doctor]

Just curious...why is this important for Classic?

E-peen measuring contest and "strong proof that class X sucks ballz".

- - - Updated - - -

Thus, you get tools like this. There are also some false presumptions based on legend and myth about how difficult Classic is likely to be at all levels.

No bets on who wins out but it's not 2005 any longer. Player expectations have changed and not always for the better.

I understand why logs are important in BfA - so you have a tool to figure out why certain player is underperforming and how this player can get better, you get to know encounter better and make decisions for further improvements. In classic thi it's pure e-peen measuring contest with no "good" purpose whatsoever.

[Mhyroth]

Yeah, let's pick the only class in the only instance this happens in to show that this isn't needed......... Disingenuous to the absolute extreme. Plus. Some mages are better than others. How about movement? Mag has a fear. The smart mage put himself in a spot where even if he was feared he's not out of range of boss and doesn't have to move to dps again. Meaning a smart mage will get more frostbolts in and more damage. This will tell us all about what mages are smart and what mages need improvement. This isn't just for Mag. This can be said for every boss.

Plus, cherry picking mages is so dumb when there are other classes that benifits WAY more from this. Warrior and rogue get more out of this then mages. What's the uptime on dots? What's the uptime on SnD? What's the uptime on cooldowns? What is everyone using for potions and flasks and food? People who only point to fucking mage is dishonest and should be mocked.



No, not just those things. You're probably one of the players that will likely need this the most. Yet you're too stubborn to understand this.



The ingame meter isn't perfect and doesn't capture everything. A raid leader isn't going to go through every fight and look at recount for 40 people. I'm sure they'd like to enjoy the game, too. Yes, they'll look at the absolute lowest people, but they're not going to go deep analysis on everyone.

Found the salty Mage player who's mad people picking his/her Class apart for a braindead rotation.

[Leetbeartank]

I guess I don’t see the point; I fail to see the type of guild that will find this useful:

Extremely competent world first types will roll through these raids without breaking a sweat.

Good guilds that are striving for ASAP clears will find gear a much bigger roadblock than whether specific raiders do X damage or handle Y mechanic.

Average guilds who are pushing progression will have a harder time fielding 40 people, and thus can’t afford to nitpick about performance. They’ll be lucky to get 40 in the door.

Below average and/or casual guilds won’t be helped or need the logs, and will have similar issues as the average and good guilds, gear and attendance will be bigger problems.

Of course this is just my opinion, but I think people bringing that mindset into Classic are playing the wrong game. It really is about the journey, not the destination. But to each their own, and good luck on the way.

Do you still play WoW? Do you know how to read logs? I'm pretty sure the answer to the second question is no. Logs are extremely valuable for figuring out what problems your group is having during an encounter. It's often hard if you are focused on other things without some kind of log. I always run live private logs for everything that I do. It's super helpful, plus you can tell where you stand amongst others, so you can evaluate yourself and improve.

The more I explain the importance of logs the more I realize that you are everything that is wrong with WoW and the LFR mindset that plagues it right now. Play Maple Story bro.

[urasim]

Found the salty Mage player who's mad people picking his/her Class apart for a braindead rotation.

I don't play a mage.

Keep assuming things, though. It makes you look really good...

You get a little worked up over things. At least It doesn't affect me.

Worked up? Just calling out bad players like you. Why else would you be against a method of looking in depth at what everyone does? Because you're not good and don't want to be called out for bad play. Which it seems like you're going to be called out A LOT!

[taishar68]

Do you still play WoW? Do you know how to read logs? I'm pretty sure the answer to the second question is no. Logs are extremely valuable for figuring out what problems your group is having during an encounter. It's often hard if you are focused on other things without some kind of log. I always run live private logs for everything that I do. It's super helpful, plus you can tell where you stand amongst others, so you can evaluate yourself and improve.

The more I explain the importance of logs the more I realize that you are everything that is wrong with WoW and the LFR mindset that plagues it right now. Play Maple Story bro.

Yes. Yes.

Thank you for the character assassination; you know nothing about me, but decide you can figure me out from a few paragraphs; you have a lot of confidence in your inferential skills, then?

I do not raid in retail, I am not good enough to raid at the level I would like to play at, and LFR holds no interest for me beyond "I did the quest"...even then, I still haven't done the Crucible because...meh. And, I did not need logs to tell me I am not built for today's raids.

Anyway, my comments, if you had read them all in this thread, are asking about the value of logs in Classic, not retail. Have a good day.

[Spotnick]

How can you get better if you can't compare yourself to others?

That is the whole point of combat logging.. .finding things to improve.

[Leetbeartank]

Yes. Yes.

Thank you for the character assassination; you know nothing about me, but decide you can figure me out from a few paragraphs; you have a lot of confidence in your inferential skills, then?

I do not raid in retail, I am not good enough to raid at the level I would like to play at, and LFR holds no interest for me beyond "I did the quest"...even then, I still haven't done the Crucible because...meh. And, I did not need logs to tell me I am not built for today's raids.

Anyway, my comments, if you had read them all in this thread, are asking about the value of logs in Classic, not retail. Have a good day.

Exactly! You're bad at the game man. Accept it. You're not the type of player I would ever want in my group. You are part of the LFR casual culture, which isn't what classic will be about. How can you possibly think that logs won't be helpful in Classic? I know how - it's because you're an LFR raider that doesn't understand how to use logs or improve your own play. You probably blame healers when you die to simple mechanics The simple fact that you don't think logs will be important in classic means that you don't know how to use them now... Nobody who knows how to would ever think this.

[taishar68]

Exactly! You're bad at the game man. Accept it. You're not the type of player I would ever want in my group. You are part of the LFR casual culture, which isn't what classic will be about. How can you possibly think that logs won't be helpful in Classic? I know how - it's because you're an LFR raider that doesn't understand how to use logs or improve your own play. You probably blame healers when you die to simple mechanics The simple fact that you don't think logs will be important in classic means that you don't know how to use them now... Nobody who knows how to would ever think this.

Except you just keep on making assumptions, because you cannot fathom that anyone else could possibly think differently than you. Whatever, peace be with you.

[Leetbeartank]

Except you just keep on making assumptions, because you cannot fathom that anyone else could possibly think differently than you. Whatever, peace be with you.

I think you're the one that fathom that (almost) everyone else in this thread plays this game to try to realize their full potential and improve upon their own mistakes. Logs are the #1 most useful tool available for that. Your mindset is the mindset that led to LFR where where everything is made up and the points don't matter.

[Greevir]

Like someone said earlier, just a dick measuring tool. Just like in retail. Can't wait for all these "Vanilla purists" to throw so many addons on the game where it basically plays like retail.

[jstnw89]

I don't see the point either.. While I'm hyper pro Classic.. the raids and rotations are about as easy as it comes. People want to flex about pressing 1 button?

[taishar68]

I think you're the one that fathom that (almost) everyone else in this thread plays this game to try to realize their full potential and improve upon their own mistakes. Logs are the #1 most useful tool available for that. Your mindset is the mindset that led to LFR where where everything is made up and the points don't matter.

1. There are numerous people here who share my opinion. Maybe we're all bad, maybe we aren't; you've made up your mind already.

2. I have tried twice to just let the matter go, but you continue making this personal; why? What have I done to you? Look back at my posts in this thread; I make no judgments or derisive comments in any way, simply stating that I don't think logs will matter for Classic. I state clearly that they are a useful tool for retail progression, and I have no problem with them in any way; all I asked was why did people think they were needed. Some people responded with why they felt the need without insulting me or anyone else, so what's the deal? I'm perfectly fine talking about the subject at hand, but you continue to frame it as a personal fault.

3. I know you want to paint me as this LFR hero or something, so I'll leave you to it; I don't have to justify myself to you, nor would it change your mind. If you want to debate the merits of the logs in Classic, feel free, but I am asking you a final time, leave the personal attacks at the door.

[Leetbeartank]

1. There are numerous people here who share my opinion. Maybe we're all bad, maybe we aren't; you've made up your mind already.

2. I have tried twice to just let the matter go, but you continue making this personal; why? What have I done to you? Look back at my posts in this thread; I make no judgments or derisive comments in any way, simply stating that I don't think logs will matter for Classic. I state clearly that they are a useful tool for retail progression, and I have no problem with them in any way; all I asked was why did people think they were needed. Some people responded with why they felt the need without insulting me or anyone else, so what's the deal? I'm perfectly fine talking about the subject at hand, but you continue to frame it as a personal fault.

3. I know you want to paint me as this LFR hero or something, so I'll leave you to it; I don't have to justify myself to you, nor would it change your mind. If you want to debate the merits of the logs in Classic, feel free, but I am asking you a final time, leave the personal attacks at the door.

Because you felt entitled to respond negatively about something which you know nothing about and have no experience using. All I'm pointing out is that you telling the entire forum that they're pointless is just because you're too ignorant to know how to use them.

[Varitok]

It will be entertaining to see how many guilds down MC and BWL (barring any bugs) early on. These raids were piss easy and pale in comparison to the amount of micromanagment and mechanics that exists in Mythic. People will just refuse to admit that they were kids/teens who were bad at video games in 2004.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Just curious...why is this important for Classic?

Having information to improve is always important.

[Varitok]

I think you're the one that fathom that (almost) everyone else in this thread plays this game to try to realize their full potential and improve upon their own mistakes. Logs are the #1 most useful tool available for that. Your mindset is the mindset that led to LFR where where everything is made up and the points don't matter.

LFR was actually tough in MoP, I liked that rendition because the rewards were also scaled to that difficulty. LFR basically played like Normal now, back in MoP. It's the only reason raids exist in the scale they are today and people refuse to accept that.