Do people actually like classes in BFA?

[cptaylor38]

Feels like 36 classes. That's true. But the problem with BFA is that it's easier to gear an alt then gear for an alt specc.

I've found this to be an issue too, but I don't min/max or really even go after stat priorities. I just try to get minimally viable alt-sets for dungeons and what not. But getting things like weapons/trinkets are just so damn difficult!

Hoping this new patch extends the armor consumable token from Nazjatar for trinkets and weapons. Just wanna be able to play around with other specs from time to time before I commit to running anything serious and trying to get something that's more appropriate.

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I don't see anything different about them compared to previous expansions.

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I don't think they are.



What spec is there where you only use 3-4 skills? I like to keep things to 15 keybinds and I haven't had a single spec in BFA or recent expansions where I had trouble filling those 15 keybinds, and in some cases I need some more. I use almost every one of my abilities on every spec I play. Only ones I rarely use are most CC abilities.

It depends on the content I guess. But for pve, you're generally only cycling through a few different ones.

And all of them. Some of them I feel are a little too bloated, like balance druid having to individually press moonfire and sunfire instead of it just being one ability. It made sense when they had the eclipse mechanic and cycling between them, but now it just feels redundant.

There are a few specs I've found to have a lot more involved, like demo warlock, unholy death knight, windwalker monk, druid. I haven't really played affliction warlock but I imagine it's probably similar in ability count, as well as rogue which I don't really play. Oh, and I found frost mage to have a ton of abilities too.

Maybe it's just the specs I play that all feel similar, but the fact that some of them are so simplified is drastically different than how it used to feel.

Enhancement shaman for sure. I just miss old enhance shammy.

I miss the days of not being locked into a particular weapon like enhance shaman is with one-handed weapons, or frost death-knights are with one-handed.

Also, on a complete sidenote, did Survival Hunter ever take off? I don't think I've ever actually seen it played?

[tyranade]

I won’t be coming back to WoW unless they return classes to somewhere before Legion. I absolutely hate how my classes play now I can’t see it happening so this is the end of the road for me.

[Powerogue]

I won’t be coming back to WoW unless they return classes to somewhere before Legion. I absolutely hate how my classes play now I can’t see it happening so this is the end of the road for me.

In my experience the solution to them ruining my main was to pick a new main. Legion gave me a plethora of alts, surely there's some class spec you still enjoy.

[Amariw]

Its definately a downgrade from mop era, but its not purely bad. Spriests void form is a cool concept. As is the different buffs for outlaw rogue. I liked mop demonology way more, but bfa demonology has a cool fantasy and works alright.

My biggest problem with overall class design is the lack of thoughtful decision making. Aside from boss mechanics, you just do your rotation, and that rotation is simple. There's no reason to use resources beside damage (mop soulburn, how i miss you so). Only rogues can turn combo points into a cc instead of dmg and they very rarely need to. Also, compare today's destruction aoe rotation to MoP fire and brimestone mechanic, which had different incentives on when exactly to cast AoE versions of immolate, conflagrate or incinerate. There is less depth and less room to excel, which is a bad place for a blizzard game, but there's also some fun stuff. I wish they would appreciate decision making in combat again.

Edit: on the complete opposite side of the spectrum, healing has been made infinitely more fun over the years. Starting around Legion thanks to the elimination of the Spirit stat, mana actually matters. In arena, dampening achieves a similar result whereas you *WILL* eventually run out of mana or die. This allows blizz to make much more interesting spells which have different levels of aoe, efficency, throughput or speed, and fun masteries like resto druid, which tie the entire specc together and make each new hot cast feel meaningful. Infinitely better than Wrath and Cata's "spam your aoe heal bottun on cd, rest of the time spam your fast heal on the tank".

[GreenJesus]

This is a player created problem though, you ask Blizz to "Fix" classes but they became the way they are today because of players asking for less bloat or to get more tools that other classes have so they can compete etc.

Its created the homogenisation we have today across many classes and its infinitely more difficult to fix now because any removal of a class/spec feature is considering pruning and any fundamental change to how a spec works is a crime against humanity that nobody asked for...even if these are efforts to diversify the classes/specs from eachother.

Example1: Paladins want a charge, Blizz says warriors have that so Paladins can't. Playerbase doesn't care, they want a Paladin charge. Same as DKs.
Example2: Everyone wants an execute, Blizz says warriors should be the execute class. Playerbase doesn't care, they want an execute. We're now getting Hammer of Wrath and Kill Shot baseline for Paladins & Hunters.

If everyone wants everything, you end up with classes that feel the same.

This is why players have no idea what they want and why Blizz is always painted the villain for trying to appease to everyone. The 3 specs they tried to diversify and make them feel different have all "failed" in the communities eyes and were "never asked for".

So what are Blizzard supposed to do.

Dude. Paladins had hammer of wrath and shadow priest had their execute since forever. Blizzard are the ones that invented the idea only warriors should have an execute ability in legion based on the "class fantasy" meme. Fuck that. Why shouldn't retribution paladins have an ability to punish villains that attempt to run from justice? Why shouldn't paladins be able to denounce or exorcise their foes anymore either? Why did that get pruned? Hiw is that not part of a paladin fantasy? Blizzard is just retarded and likes pruning abilities for non reason just to piss us off. I hate people that make up excuses for blizzards failures by blaming the playerbase when it is clearly blizzards fault themselves.

[Doffen]

Edit: on the complete opposite side of the spectrum, healing has been made infinitely more fun over the years. Starting around Legion thanks to the elimination of the Spirit stat, mana actually matters. In arena, dampening achieves a similar result whereas you *WILL* eventually run out of mana or die. This allows blizz to make much more interesting spells which have different levels of aoe, efficency, throughput or speed, and fun masteries like resto druid, which tie the entire specc together and make each new hot cast feel meaningful. Infinitely better than Wrath and Cata's "spam your aoe heal bottun on cd, rest of the time spam your fast heal on the tank".

Really agree with the healing part. The last 3 expansions for me have made me like healing, something I haven't really liked since WotLK. The healers are quite different in playstyles as well. I play holy paladin and holy priest and mistweaver somewhat. It's quite fun because they play differently. Healing is also nicely tuned for raids and m+. You'll notice when you do good or bad healing. Which makes it really rewarding. That you can also dish out some damage too is also nice.

So all in all I think they do a good job with healers.

[Sondrelk]

I enjoy the few classes i play, at least i nejoy them enough.

Fury warrior feels amazing to play, even if the DPS is lagging far behind how great it feels to be playing.
Outlaw rogue as well, even though i decided to go for Slice and Dice to be able ot do respectable DPS then game feels fluid and enjoyable to play as an Outlaw rogue.

My main though is an MM hunter, and while i enjoy the class enough to not reroll i still have quite a few niggles.
Sadly the problem with MM is ironically that Blizzard focused too much on the class fantasy of a sniper that dispatches targets quickly, meaning that while i get to look at giant numbers and crit for half the health of quest mobs the rotation gets pretty boring after a while.
Hopefully Shadowlands giving me back Kill shot and making abilities like Hunters mark baseline so it does not lock down a spot in the talent tree i would be happy, it is pretty much the exact same problem i had in Legion when lone wolf was a talent.

I would love if Blizzard reverted MM gameplay to WoD, actually. Personally i feel that was the one that got closest to perfect, it really just needed some kind of ability that instantly refreshed patient sniper or allowed me to move in short burts with it active.

[Tharivor]

I've been enjoying frost mage a lot since legion.
A variety of abilities if you have the right talents, lots of mobility and kiteing potential if you're soloing, procs to spice things up, and nice visuals.
It's made a lot of my other casters feel clunky in comparison, especially when soloing.

[prwraith]

Very much so. Classes are the best they've been since Mists. I hope they don't butcher them in the next expansion.

What. Are we even playing the same game?

[Aggrophobic]

I've been enjoying frost mage a lot since legion.
A variety of abilities if you have the right talents, lots of mobility and kiteing potential if you're soloing, procs to spice things up, and nice visuals.
It's made a lot of my other casters feel clunky in comparison, especially when soloing.

But... You simply spam two buttons. It's by far the simplest spec in the game.

[crakerjack]

Right now I've been liking demo, fire, enhance and outlaw. I mean I think all the specs are alright, just those 4 have resonated with me the most.

[crakerjack]

But... You simply spam two buttons. It's by far the simplest spec in the game.

Anyone who plays a frost mage knows that's an exaggeration. As someone who plays all classes/specs available, I can safely say it's not different from any other spec. Frostbolt, ice lance, glacial spike, blizzard, orb, cone, ebonbolt and flurry. I mean it's literally the same as every other spec out there. Yea the other dude was exaggerating by saying it makes other casters feel clunky when that's clearly not the case. I'd say the most clunky caster is fire. It's a fun spec though.

[prwraith]

People have different tastes. BFA classes are much simpler which makes it easy to learn different classes hence why some people like them. Try to look at how people think instead of patronizing them.

If simpler classes are appealing, that's a queue for further ridicule tbh. The lack of complexity is mind-mindbogglingly boring. With most classes reduced to hit the button that lights up! Ret pally says hiii

[Gardoc]

No, they ruined perfect MoP classes with WoD pruning and Legion+BFA prune was a final nail in the coffin for me. Every class has has the same brainless builder-spender playstyle.

[Gardoc]

I find most classes to be more mechanically engaging and interesting now than any other expansion before MoP combined. I mainly play healers and I quite enjoy them all now, though my favorite has been resto shaman during Antorus in Legion.

But I do indeed generally like the classes in BFA. Don't be fooled by opinions on forums and Reddit 100%. The most vocal part of the community is also a very low minority.

Yeah sure, Blizzard made unpruning one of the biggest selling points of Shadowlands because majority likes pruned classes...

[Ryonas]

Well....

I hate that everything is so cookie-cutter. I will forever miss classes as they existed in WoTLK. Finding creative ways to take a little from Column A, a little from Column B, etc. to tailor your talents to your play style.

BUT!

All abilities across the classes (DPS-wise, anyway, which is all I play) being basically just different graphics for the same result has made it VERY easy for me to set up hotkeys on my alts to just be able to keyboard-mash my way through the game on them! So that's nice.

[prwraith]

This is not about simplicity. This is about you not being able to accept different opinions. End of discussion.

I do so love both your attempt to over-read into this, and the holier than thou "end of discussion" as if you have some sort of mod-esque power over this forum to end whatever you like

You're probably one of those who thinks that an opinion is always fine, regardless of how objectively incorrect it is, no?

[Aggrophobic]

Anyone who plays a frost mage knows that's an exaggeration. As someone who plays all classes/specs available, I can safely say it's not different from any other spec. Frostbolt, ice lance, glacial spike, blizzard, orb, cone, ebonbolt and flurry. I mean it's literally the same as every other spec out there. Yea the other dude was exaggerating by saying it makes other casters feel clunky when that's clearly not the case. I'd say the most clunky caster is fire. It's a fun spec though.

I've played mage as a main for close to 15 years now.
But yes, it's by far the easiest spec in the game right now and no, it's not at all as "all other casters".

[Temp1on2]

Yeah sure, Blizzard made unpruning one of the biggest selling points of Shadowlands because majority likes pruned classes...

I'm not actually agreeing that the "majority liked pruned classes". But your argument is a bit cyclical, you could just as easily argue that Blizz pruned classes because people didn't like so much option.

I think what it comes down to at the end of the day is not simply adding abilities back to classes that are never/rarely used for the sake of it, but ensuring that all abilities have a clear function and actually fulfil that function. I often see a lot of people asking for x spec ability, but if you had that spec ability you'd never press it because its just not useful in any way without being in the correct spec.

[Kithelle]

Some yes some not so much...they really screwed the pooch on things like Enhancement and Shadow