Please tell me how Nightborne being monks before druids makes sense?

[Amnaught]

I'm saying that the priestesses of Elune were already an established presence in Azshara's kingdom, which the nightborne in the present are pretty much a pristine copy of. Tyrande looks at the nightborne and sees the kaldorei from 10,000 years ago who enabled the Legion's invasion. The kaldorei she's done everything in her power to distance.

Suramar City is not at all a copy of how they were 10,000 years ago. Tyrande has done everything in her power to restore faith in Elune. There's only one time a Nightborne mentions Elune, and it's sarcasm: "It would seem that "Elune's wisdom" guided her away from the bond we once shared." The Elune freaks are the tree elves, not the Nightborne. The Nightborne have no religious figures at all, and are only shown to wield the arcane, and in the case of Elisande loyalists, the fel. There are no Nightborne priests except the player. Not even a trainer.

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Nightborne gave up their connection to nature when they closed themselves off from it?

But they changed again with the Arcan'dor. They had been subsisting off of nothing but arcane mana for 10,000 years, and then they used druidic magic to regain their place in the world. They had a much more meaningful and immediate new connection to druidism than their new connection to monk-ism, which would have been exclusively taught by whatever Huojin pandaren decided to tour Suramar *after* the Nightborne formally joined the Horde.

[matrix123mko]

But we aren't talking about other kinds of druids, we are talking about druids the players play - the type of which Malfurion was the first.

Harvest witches and Raptari are playable. Just don't roll night elf.

[Kithelle]

Just had a thought what if the reason the Suramar disguised Feral Druids were only able to run around with the exception of the guards was because they just though someone let their pet Manasaber out or perhaps "goddammit the botanists are trying to figure out druidism agains

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technically they only cut themselves off from the nature that wasn't controlled like their gardens and zoo

Which they controlled through magic...like everything in their lives. They fed off magic much like the Blood Elves...they lived by magic because they were Highborne (which also aren't Druids.) These magic dominated groups have little to no connection to nature, and the Nightborne have only just begun to ween themselves off their great dependence of magic.

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Suramar City is not at all a copy of how they were 10,000 years ago. Tyrande has done everything in her power to restore faith in Elune. There's only one time a Nightborne mentions Elune, and it's sarcasm: "It would seem that "Elune's wisdom" guided her away from the bond we once shared." The Elune freaks are the tree elves, not the Nightborne. The Nightborne have no religious figures at all, and are only shown to wield the arcane, and in the case of Elisande loyalists, the fel. There are no Nightborne priests except the player. Not even a trainer.

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But they changed again with the Arcan'dor. They had been subsisting off of nothing but arcane mana for 10,000 years, and then they used druidic magic to regain their place in the world. They had a much more meaningful and immediate new connection to druidism than their new connection to monk-ism, which would have been exclusively taught by whatever Huojin pandaren decided to tour Suramar *after* the Nightborne formally joined the Horde.

a 10,000 year old habit isn't something you just get over and evolve past in a short time...plus they obviously don't want anything to do with the Night Elves...safe to say they will take after the Blood Elf cousins, who also aren't in tune with the level of nature that the Night Elves are.

[Charge me Doctor]

The same reason it doesn't make sense for gnomes to be paladins

[derpkitteh]

it doesn't.

it made absolutely 0 sense for highmountain, nightborne, or zandalari to have monks at all. for nightborne and highmountain, pandas just fucking materialized and started teaching them, it was stupid.

for zandalari though, it's even more egregious. the zandalari don't care for pandaren that much, and they would absolutely never embrace pandaren culture to the extent that a monk does.

[mickybrighteyes]

But they changed again with the Arcan'dor. They had been subsisting off of nothing but arcane mana for 10,000 years, and then they used druidic magic to regain their place in the world. They had a much more meaningful and immediate new connection to druidism than their new connection to monk-ism, which would have been exclusively taught by whatever Huojin pandaren decided to tour Suramar *after* the Nightborne formally joined the Horde.

I'm not sure I'd say the Nightborne used druidic magic or even druidic mindset. A specific druid shed light on an option that we then go out of our way to prop up and force. the arcandor itself is more of a hybrid of arcane/nature fusion spawned from some vague "ancient experiment".

Farodin was the main "druid" like figure showing up until we look at other refugees who weren't "nightborne" and it didn't seem like they were teaching new recruits...

still Monk is a very weird thing as well since it's pseudo magical as well and also has deity figures you're supposed to commune with...

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it doesn't.

it made absolutely 0 sense for highmountain, nightborne, or zandalari to have monks at all. for nightborne and highmountain, pandas just fucking materialized and started teaching them, it was stupid.

for zandalari though, it's even more egregious. the zandalari don't care for pandaren that much, and they would absolutely never embrace pandaren culture to the extent that a monk does.

I'd argue Zandalari might make sense to look at monks since they still interacted with them enough to trade (present in the lower reaches of the city in the harbor) and the fact that they made a show of strength against their old allies, the Mogu.

But really, "monk" style should have been something to get racial tweaks cause the "martial" aspect of monk should be a no brainer for literally any nation at some point. The self improvement, master of self, discipline angles typical of any martial art... the other 'spiritual' side that pandaren push should have gotten a face lift though. A zandalari "monk" with loa themes would make a helluva lot of sense.

[derpkitteh]

I'd argue Zandalari might make sense to look at monks since they still interacted with them enough to trade (present in the lower reaches of the city in the harbor) and the fact that they made a show of strength against their old allies, the Mogu.

But really, "monk" style should have been something to get racial tweaks cause the "martial" aspect of monk should be a no brainer for literally any nation at some point. The self improvement, master of self, discipline angles typical of any martial art... the other 'spiritual' side that pandaren push should have gotten a face lift though. A zandalari "monk" with loa themes would make a helluva lot of sense.

it's not that i specifically have a problem with them having a monk class.

the problem is in the way that blizzard made monks. they are intrinsically linked to pandaren culture. nearly every talent and ability calls back to it and the celestials. it fits no other race but pandaren because of that, it was an awful way to add monk.

now that they've added different forms for druids though, i hope this is a step in the right direction, and that they will be willing to further differentiate classes based on race in the future. monk needs it terribly.

[ravenmoon]

Nightborne gave up their connection to nature when they closed themselves off from it?

No they didnt. Can you even define connection to nature? They were cut 9ff from the rest of the world but clearly had nature and water within the city, you do see lots of trees, gardens, vineyards, and nightborne wielding nature magic.

But even if what you say was correct, being cut off for 20,000 years does not mean you cannot reconnect, and even if a race never had a connection, doesnt mean they cant start having one, everyone is capable of learning new things. However in the case of the nightborne, nature is one of the few other things alongside arcane that is still there, and if it wasnt, their interaction with Farodin and the Val'sharah druids makes it at least more prevalent and accessible than Monk class

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Just had a thought what if the reason the Suramar disguised Feral Druids were only able to run around with the exception of the guards was because they just though someone let their pet Manasaber out or perhaps "goddammit the botanists are trying to figure out druidism agains

Tha twould have been funny, but I don't think initially nightborne were considered or palnned to be a part of the horde. Notice how very night elven 7.0 was, not a whiff of Thalassian elves and nothing to do with them, this was obviously telling a night elf story. the decision for them going horde came while 7.1 was being programmed. Blizzard revealed to us, that this was debated for a while and it was very close, until they decided they would go horde. I think this is when druidsm as an option disappeared, because I suspect they had already done the Highmountain forms by then (as that was a clear cut decision), it is also why void elves seemed so rushed, they literally were invented last minute as blizzard could not release high elves, and with nightborne going horde, it was better to adapt a new type of Thalassian. Remember they were still deciding whether void elves were going to be pale skinned, and the all purple decision actually came after 7.3.


This is why you didn't even have such a possibility ini 7.0, even amongst the evil nightborne. 3 classes were clearly shown to have a version or relation to and amongst the nightborne and their story, mage (the foundation), hunter (crimson thicket) and druid (botanists, Farodin, Nighteyes (who joins the resistance) and refugees)

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I have some thoughts to add on this Amnaught (btw is your name a way of sayhing I am nought? Or I am naughty? or neither btw?)

Suramar City is not at all a copy of how they were 10,000 years ago. Tyrande has done everything in her power to restore faith in Elune. There's only one time a Nightborne mentions Elune, and it's sarcasm: "It would seem that "Elune's wisdom" guided her away from the bond we once shared." The Elune freaks are the tree elves, not the Nightborne. The Nightborne have no religious figures at all, and are only shown to wield the arcane, and in the case of Elisande loyalists, the fel. There are no Nightborne priests except the player. Not even a trainer.

She hasn't done everything in her power (they unwisely didn't really give the Order of Elune a big role in any part of Legion despite the historical significance of both Suramar and The Cathedral of Eternal night to them). We do know they actually cut Tyrande and her orders original story line for the broken shore replacing it with more legionactivity and havin gthe class orders instead spear head the activity. which is such a shame, the order of leune is the only part of the night elves not properly visited in legion, we got everything else, we got the pre-sundering arcane culture and civilization in Suramar, much more highborne depth in Azsuna, we got druidsm too in Val'sharah, Wardens, we got Illidari demon hunters, we even got Black Rook hold. These are had detail and depth and are the main areas of the night elves and their lore from both the pre-sundering and post sundering era. Yes the priestesses show up briefly in Val'sharah, but that really isn't their place is it - Suramar and the Cathedral is where we should have had them in detail. But their absence to me is confirmation of blizzard simply moving away from core night elf focus in the broken isle after the initial design (i.e. after everything we see in 7.0), from 7.1 (save for the conclusion of Suramar which is altered as nightborne are now decided to go horde), the rest of the expansion has nothing to do with the night elves or nightborne. All of the nighthold content is already done by the end of beta, and you see even the original storyline is intact, Thalyssra giving up the nightwell ins avery night elf kaldorei move, vereesa in the cinematic at the end of the nighthold, because before 7.1 was altered, it was Vereesa not Tyrande playing the alliance role of the armies (yes we m oaned about it on the forums so the change isn't surprising, but Iit was used to create the Darnassian /Shalassian resistance frostiness where none existed in 7.0), Tyrande had a separate role that would lead into the broken shore and much likely more on the Order of Elune which they cut by their own admission.


Also, Elune's wisdom guided us away I never read as actually Elune herself actually guiding them away. She said "perhaps" - meaning she is wondering why Tyrande (herself) doesn't approach the Nightborne because of the bond they once shared (i.e. you know, night elves, coming from the same city etc), the idea in Thalyssra's mind which she shares is that perhaps Elune's wisdom lead her (Tyrande) elsewhere . If you go to the alliance embassy building, tyrande is deep in thought, we are not told why, but it's likely because of Illidan, the huge revelations Legion brings, the return of her city of birth. LEgion is huge for the night elves. THe nighbtborne joining the horde (from an ingame perspective) is because the blood elves approached them and showed them respect they deserve and friendship. Whereas the Darnassian night elves (i.e. the alliance faction of night elves, not to be confused with ALL the night elf race) didn't bother to pursue restoring ties with them.

Sadly, players absolute faction focus (and some of the devs), makes them forget that just because the nightborne ally with the blood elves, doesn't mean they are now somehow enemies to the netural Moonguard, Val'sharah dreamers, an d other night elven factions of the broken isles who are neutral to the horde and alliance groups.

Elune is not restricted to the Darnassian night elves alone, who are not tree elves (despite the racial slurs - which are fitting if you're in character wink/wink). It is likely that the nightborne priests are Elune priests too. I would be surprised if they are not.

But they changed again with the Arcan'dor. They had been subsisting off of nothing but arcane mana for 10,000 years, and then they used druidic magic to regain their place in the world. They had a much more meaningful and immediate new connection to druidism than their new connection to monk-ism, which would have been exclusively taught by whatever Huojin pandaren decided to tour Suramar *after* the Nightborne formally joined the Horde.

Indeed, not to mention the historical and racial connections too, Night elves despite coming from the arcane had a love for nature evident in their early years and initially developed by Cenarius. Even when the society shifted entirely to the arcane, there was never a hate for nature, just a preference for the arcane, and WotA trilogy shows us that their cities were built with both magic and forests still meant a lot for them. Suramar has many more gardens than Silvermoon, Zin'Azshari in the warbringers, you can see garden rooftops, in a Utopian like city too.

The night elves in Suramar's transition to their nightborne state has no evidence of robbing them of any nature love or affinity - the city clearly shows nightborne appreciate and tend for nature through the botanists, and the zoo which they have kept animals going for 10k years, albeit twisted (in line with the arcane addiction) it is nonetheless there. The nightborne have more arcane juice, in fact too much which is why they go out of balance with nature and get that chronic curse. It takes nature rebalancing to cure the addiction, solving the 10k millennia puzzle of arcane addiction in night elves. (so yes, the arcan'dor will work for nightborne and night elves, it was designed to solve the night elf addiction in the pre-sundering era, and we see it powerful enough to fix the nightborne who are night elves really deep in addiction).

To a measure the lore makes sense to me. Having more arcane, doesn't mean you have less nature, in the nightborne's case, their bodies are arcane engorged and thus imbalanced, the arcan'dor restores the biological balance (which is why I sometimes wonder if in time they would regain their night elven forms), it is clear nature love or care isn't really affected, as that is more an emotional , cultural and psychological thing, the botanists and gardens are evidence of a lot of nature love and care, the zoo treatment is evidence of cultural shift in approach (because they are under the shield now, so animals are contained instead of left to roam wild) they are not exterminated or ignored, and you do have other creatures in the city.

[Daedius]

Delinquent Nightborne that didn't find a Pugilist Guild, so Monks were the next best thing.

[ravenmoon]

Which they controlled through magic...like everything in their lives. They fed off magic much like the Blood Elves...they lived by magic because they were Highborne (which also aren't Druids.) These magic dominated groups have little to no connection to nature, and the Nightborne have only just begun to ween themselves off their great dependence of magic.

Nature is a magic too, and Darnassian kaldorei are nature magic dominated - magic domination is a night elf trait, whether the arcane version prevalent to ALL night elves pre-sundering, or to the Shen'dralar, Moonguard, Farondis and Nightborne sub-race groups post sundering, or Fel magic in the Illidari - when night elves pick up any magic it is to the extreme level. They are very magical. People should stop viewing night elven nature as not magical. Tauren and troll society are not magically intense, they have some magic via shaman but they don't go to crazy extents as night elven druids, mages, priests or demon hunters

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a 10,000 year old habit isn't something you just get over and evolve past in a short time...plus they obviously don't want anything to do with the Night Elves...safe to say they will take after the Blood Elf cousins, who also aren't in tune with the level of nature that the Night Elves are.

I must correct here, it is not ALL night elves, it is the Tyrande led night elves i.e. the Darnassian night elves that seem to not want much to do with the nightborne - it is not the nightborne that don't want anything to do with them, and you can't even say that the Darnassians don't want anything to do with them, the best you can say is the Darnassians were not as eager or butt kissing as the blood elves (who you are told are desperate to elarn the arcane secrets of the night elves that the nightborne have in a pristine kaldorei city (read the archaeological quests, both the Reliquary leader, Aethas too, but it fits the blood elves hunger to learn as much magic as possible - that shouldn't surprise you) and you also cannot say that just because the blood elves desire magic a lot that Liadrin, a woman of the light doesn't have compassion for the nightborne, you can both want their knowledge and power and also have compassion and desire their friendship too.

Furthermore, don't assume because blizzard creates this frostier interaction between Tyrande and Thalyssra and chooses to write the Darnassians as not approaching the nightborne that this somehow means that ALL the night elf race feels the same way, when you have evidence in 7.0 that Valewalker Farodin, and the Val'sharah druidic and priests refugees, as well as the Moonguard get on well and love the nightborne they actually help. It is only Tyrande's faction, the alliance faction, that is a bit frosty.

Now we can assume that Tyrande being forsty maybe influenced the other night elves of the island to change their stance. but that is highly unlikely, seeing tht they haven't been together for 10k years, and most of them have a mind of their own, not to mention no evidence as such. I don't see Faroodin or Lothrius Moonguard suddenly dislking the nightborne because Tyrande was wary of Thalyssra when they first meet. We see Thalyssra prove Tyrande's suspicion wariness of her being the next Azshara/Elisande emphatically wrong when Thalyssra stays true to the cause through to the end with conviction, and the nightborne this time round (unlike the war of the ancients when they were night elves), this time choosing to fight for their city and their lives rather than leaving others to do it for them. Tyrande even commends them later on for this if you play the alliance side. Where she is at first unwilling and reluctant to give night elven lives to save her former people who made not effort and sacrifice the first time round only to open their doors and give magical power to the legion they should know by now are evil (seeing they resisted them the first time round), she sees the willingness of the nightfallen resistance to fight to the end, learn strategies as she sends the alliance hero to help them gain strategic knowledge from genius mastermind Ravencrest and his generals in Black rook Hold

From the exchange you can understand the context of Tyrande's frustration as I outlined before, unlike Liadrin, she knows the nightborne, it's her city, the Darnassians know it too, as many of them come from the same city. Tyrande remembers elisande and the nightbtrne (as night elves) refusing to join the Order of Leune from the same city and the rest of the resistance from all around suramar country to march on Zin'Azsahrai - Elisande believes they have no chance so doesn't lend her magical power in the newly created nightwell, instead using it to create the shield. she remembers these city folk being okay with others going to give their lives to save not only them but the world, and this group refusing to join. Liadrin, doesn't exist at this point, and her ancestors were not from Suramar, the high elves would no have the knowledge Tyrande or the Darnassians have in general. This explains why Tyrande behaves like she does.

My view is unchanged, they didn't have to write Tyrande taking this stance, she could have been friendly and seen Thalyssra was genuine, they wrote her this way because they wanted the nightborne on the horde, however they were smart, tTyrande's reaction is quite possible. I foresaw this as one of the options they could choose, and hoped they wouldn't, but knew that if they wrote the nightborne to go horde, it was one of the approaches they could take, and they did... so even those who don't like it, can't argue that it is a feasible course of action.

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it doesn't.

it made absolutely 0 sense for highmountain, nightborne, or zandalari to have monks at all. for nightborne and highmountain, pandas just fucking materialized and started teaching them, it was stupid.

for zandalari though, it's even more egregious. the zandalari don't care for pandaren that much, and they would absolutely never embrace pandaren culture to the extent that a monk does.

I agree, and I think the community needs to call this out. How long are we going to accept some of their shooddy explanations and obvious wtf - call them out on it.

If you're going to give a race monks, at least be decent enough to give background lore rather than just throw it in. Hunters use to mean something unique before, wehn humans couldn't be, we assumed simply because the wow hunter was a magical classes thatwas more than just hunting and training, now it's everywhere,

I don't mind them giving races classes, what I mind is shoddy lore or poor explanations, when they are more than capable of writing up reasons. Or at least introducing something happening on a smaller scale that will alter grow (like nighit elves in paladin class halls - which while is an explaantion, but one i don't like because i viewed sentinesl and thenightwarrior even as a racial version of that class ) and blizzard are just being "lazy" not to give racial distinctions or skins to certain class/race combos when they need to. Gnome warriors should have had mechsuits as they're a joke otherwise, night elf priests should have had a moon priestess skin to them instead of pretending that they wield the same power as Church of the light priests.

And they thus watered down their lore, somebody in creative or the creative lead ta the time, MEtzen, shoudl have offered up or even insisted allowance made to show these classes as that. I don't know if he did, but the clever guy is also a sensitive guy, I can imagine he was really hurt when they over ruled all his concepts like male night e only druids (forcing him to give tauren ones), alliance warlocks, horde priests - 2 factions instead of 4, no male female differnces, no class differences - weren't beastmasters ONLY an orc thing - anway I digress.


AS for druidsm, this was such a purely elven thing, shamanism was the nature expression on the more tribal based races like Tauren, orcs and trolls, the cross over to Tauren was bad enough, the shock was when nightborne had that backstroy and cure story, and duruids failed to materialise in favour of the highmountain. I suspect that the decision comes because nightborne join the horde. If they had joined the alliance, they would have had druids, while Zandalari would have gained them, and Kul'tirans probably wouldn't have. I suspect, Highmountain were always going horde, and work on their druid forms had started, we know the nightborne faction deciding took a while and some debate, it'sp possible by the time they conclude, , now being on the horde, it made no sense to give both horde races druids, and since the forms for one had likely already been done or were easier to do, they stuck with the Highmountain.

Even though highmountain having no druidsm in their lore at all, in all the questing you do, there is no evidence, sign, trace of highmounatin druids,a nd they just show up. You would think at least they would be amongst some of the druids in Val'sharah, nope. They're not. But I suspect, new developers and new fans don't know lore that well, they just came tow ow with Tauren alreayd druids, and because they're bestial and druids shapsfhit into beasts, it seems obvous, especially if they came after cata where 3 bestial races are druids, it makes night elves look like the odd ones out, or amkes them think of night elves as bestial elves - neither of which is teh unique warcraft flavour of elven lore and druidic history.

So inn most of these fans' minds, nightborne being druids seems strange, and highmountain isnt even questioned. Despite the points i make in the opening post, see how many people between 1-7 year memebership seeem to have a problem with accepting the celar druidic connection and evidence in the nightborne story and night elven history i present, almost as if their mind just can't see it, beceause they associate druidsm with bestial races and wer enot around when the lore was first released with it's 100% pure elven druidic element.

Some even argue that druidsm is elven at all - (read the earlier repsonses). Sure some way things change, they do, but last i checked the lore hadn't been retconned in this respect despite the additions.

But what's sad is probably only I care. What a waste of my time huh.

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it's not that i specifically have a problem with them having a monk class.

the problem is in the way that blizzard made monks. they are intrinsically linked to pandaren culture. nearly every talent and ability calls back to it and the celestials. it fits no other race but pandaren because of that, it was an awful way to add monk.

now that they've added different forms for druids though, i hope this is a step in the right direction, and that they will be willing to further differentiate classes based on race in the future. monk needs it terribly.

Yeh, that is the way to go. Though the implementation sucks.

Elven druidsm I really feel should remain elven, and I was glad that kul'tirans and Zandalari trolls had another form of it, and feel that darkspear druidsm should be rcast to taht or at least brought over to the zandalari druidsm.

To bolster the Elven druidsm, I feel it is appropriate for nightborne via already established lore to be added to druids, non-playable high elves should have lore created and same with void elves to be druids. Add this to Worgen and Tauren druidsm being elven druidsm, and once more Elven druidsm woudl be the main cast of druidsm - which is important.

For void elves, n ew lore would have to be introduced, but i know druids and nature haves truggled with the ngihtmare and void invasions, this could be the excuse for void elves eager to help their allies to work with Malfurion and thus we get some void elven trained druids developinng druidc lore and void elf lore. I am in favour of strengthening void elf/night elven ties - and i would accept that. Void elves can connect to night elves to ovia the Black Moon sect, which is the void/arcane wielding night warrior bunch - that should interest them greatly, and off course they have the Highborne group they can get along with - now I would be able to accept that development if it happened High elven druidsm could actually have been a thing that started during the time without the sunwell, as official lore has high elves being sootehd by Moonwells, and something could have happened there. THe only way void elves can connect is if new lore happens, and the only way i see that is new research to save teh Emerald draam and protect nature against the void, if the light can augment nature, teh void can be used to help somehow. It is not unreasonable although i know some wouldn't like it.

[Syegfryed]

there is no mystery here, one race get some pandaren teachers and they learn to be monks, is not that hard to get rthe basic and be a novice monk, i dunno ho is that hard to grasp

For void elves, n ew lore would have to be introduced, but i know druids and nature haves truggled with the ngihtmare and void invasions, this could be the excuse for void elves eager to help their allies to work with Malfurion and thus we get some void elven trained druids developinng druidc lore and void elf lore. I am in favour of strengthening void elf/night elven ties - and i would accept that. Void elves can connect to night elves to ovia the Black Moon sect, which is the void/arcane wielding night warrior bunch - that should interest them greatly, and off course they have the Highborne group they can get along with - now I would be able to accept that development if it happened High elven druidsm could actually have been a thing that started during the time without the sunwell, as official lore has high elves being sootehd by Moonwells, and something could have happened there. THe only way void elves can connect is if new lore happens, and the only way i see that is new research to save teh Emerald draam and protect nature against the void, if the light can augment nature, teh void can be used to help somehow. It is not unreasonable although i know some wouldn't like it.

now you want void elf druid too? lmao dude do even read what you say

[baskev]

Are you implying that arcane clashes with nature? Because it doesn't, the nighte lves are made from the arcane, and the high elves though they wielded it more than the darnasisan night elves for 7k years (not more than the shen'dralar night elves or the moonguard night elves) have still less natural arcana in their body thanks to the exile.

No i am saying that blizzard will use that one as a reason ( and i agree). And yes they have still some arcane enegery in their bodies. But unlike the other elf species. Their are not build from it. They do not need it to live. You take away the arcane or void energy's from other elf races...they will wither and die ( as shown ingame :P) answer me this......you take away arcane energy from night elves...you still have night elves. You take it ( or void) away from the other elves....they wither....
And it logic wise would clash with eachother.

Furthermore if the arcane actually clashed with nature, then night elves won't be able to wield nature, but their lore paints them as having being born from the arcane with an affinity to it, and also having a love for nature which they were taught to be good with.

They evoled/learned from the likes of cenarious how to become druids. And they are good at it. Not build from it. And they are no longer dependend on it. You know the part of the story where they and the blood elves split apart because 1 followed the arcane route...

Also in the lore the arcane boosts

nature - a

it extends life, makes it more intelligent, makes it grow bigger and stronger, in fact all life is built from the arcane according to warcraft lore, it makes a lot of sense why night elves are good at both the arcane and nature, and why practicing arcane elves, whether night, high, void, nighborne, blood wouldn't make them any less suitable for nature, but more.

Again boosts...not build of. You simply put the fact that i have seen a supermodel, into a thing that i must have dated her. It does not work like that.

So again the other elves after splitting into different groups. they evolved into different group. depended and honoring different paths. With both their up and downsides.
Like ingame being shown to wither if without arcane engery for some groups ( blood/high/nightborn).

but here read this: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Elf

It clearly states.....about the night elves: The main group that came to join the Alliance eventually, would abandon the ways of arcane magic usage entirely, and craft a radically different society centered around the worship of Elune, harmony with the natural world and its denizens and Druidism.



But lets look at your theorie...could they become druids....yes look at void elves. They went from:
Dark troll > highborn/nightelf > high elf > blood elf > void elf.......so whats a other transformation for them.
But for all those species to become druids. They need to shed their arcane dependence. So blizzard would need to find a reason for them to be able to live without arcane energy. And right now that is not a option.

ON top of that. It would be very unfair for the alliance. We only have 3 druid races ( while our main druid race is the starting faction of druids). While the horde already has 4 of them. Giving the other elf races. Would put it 4 against 6 ....so no thank you again.

And a third problem. The best teachers would be night elf druids and their conection to druidism etc......kinda see a problem with them helping horde races after burning of teldrassil. A place where a lot of druids lived....

So........

[Sagenod]

It's all about what the depicted culture does and doesn't do. Just like with the Thalassians, the Nightborne won't become druids because they don't revere nature and/or are not connected to it enough to be able to use druidic magic.

If there is a god/goddess of nature (Aessina or Eonar) who is responsible for deeming mortals "worthy" of using druidic powers, do you think they would give those powers to anyone they may perceive as being a threat? Both races are or have been corrupted by the Fel, that's probably a big red flag for the forces of nature. On top of that, their dedication to the arcane is far stronger than anything else, to the point where they NEED it. The Arcan'dor was, of course, an excellent way of intermingling arcane and nature, but Valewalker is not Shal'dorei, he is an ancient Kaldorei druid.

Are the patients of doctors also doctors because they were cured of their ailment by one? That's the same logic.

Different cultures produce different people which results in different events that lead to different circumstances.

[Traveler Voltin]

its a culture thing. its that simple. Nightborne dont practice druidism

[Moonrage]

Well, druidsm when it was introduced was an elven thing through and through. It's become more a troll/tauren thing over time, especially with the highmoutnain and zandalari trolls also having druids, now all of a sudden, it doesn't even feel elven because of this.

Yup. The Cenarion Circle didn't even allow Kaldorei women in back when it was first founded. Now every idiot who can magically grow a pumpkin gets a pass.

[Psykho]

Yup. The Cenarion Circle didn't even allow Kaldorei women in back when it was first founded. Now every idiot who can magically grow a pumpkin gets a pass.

Well let's be honest with places like the Plaguelands and Desolace they probably need as many druids as possible
The societal change after Night Elves lost their immortality is most likely the cause of this and the Priests of Elune accepting members of the opposite gender, because hey, it's if a Kal'dorei girl is better at nature magic than physical fighting might as well let her be a druid instead of letting her get her self get killed because she doesn't have the makings for a Sentinel

[Shakana]

I think we're talking about two distinct things - whether or not the Nightborne have Druids, period, and whether they have Druids are part of their society (e.g. a number of Druids where they should be a visible part of their society). Having Druids period is probably true, there are likely a handful Nightborne Druids, explaining where Tel'arn and the other Botanists in the Nighthold come from. Probably no more than half a dozen, all told, not to the level where they're anywhere near a visible part of Nightborne society outside their enclave. What they don't have is a Druidic aspect to their culture where it would be common to see a Nightborne Druid strolling down a garden path in the outskirts of Suramar City.

Could this change over time? Yes, certainly. This new enterprising and accepting spirit of the Nightborne could lead more individuals to the calling of the Druid, or former Arcanists who wish to explore the mysteries of the Arcan'dor, or embrace the more rustic beliefs of their new allies among the Trolls and Tauren (not too different from the Draenei embracing Shamanism way back when). But it would take a long time before Druids in Nightborne society will be even uncommon, much less common. A long time before they might become a playable class, we'll say.

It's just what i said. Overtime it could happen. There's too many things Nightborne failed to be part of, and have been in "ignorance" only due to the fact they simply couldn't regardless. I think Nightbornes with time will choose what they want. Maybe blizzard will give them later druids. We don't know the future.

Some months, and years ago, we wouldn't even imagine dk would have been unlocked for all races for example. While before it would sound insane to think that would happen, it did. So you never know. I will never know. No one can possibly know. Blizzard decides what they want to do.

Now, for the most part, for more druids class on existent races, it has been quite proven that we need an expansion theme related to it. And i also don't think we will have that early or late. But maybe a "healing" "calm" expansion of sorts will come and druidism will be expanded.

I think at this point, everything can be talked about but never certain of anything. And the lore has retcons from leftovers of old lore. We have been having 2 expansions about stuff that happened supposedly in the past. Lack of creativity or not, there's always a possibility for many things to be susceptible to change as we know it right now.

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Yup. The Cenarion Circle didn't even allow Kaldorei women in back when it was first founded. Now every idiot who can magically grow a pumpkin gets a pass.

That made me laugh. It's quite true. But i also see druid more a tauren/elven thing in the end of the day. I see more voodoo magic/black magic than nature druids for trolls.
But since they said "stay awe from da voodoo" guess they went for druid.

Mojos; Shadow; Hexes; All this is more related to a troll.

Taurens are more connected to nature as elves.
So for me all types of Elves should be able to be druids with or without sophistication, and all kinds of taurens.

Trolls make sense as warlocks. Even tho they are surrounded by nature, but when any of us imagine them, we imagine the voodoo, the blood pacts, the elements of the nature (shaman).

Trolls should more likely just be shamans than druids.
Mage, warlock, shaman, hunter, death knight, warrior, monk as well (i mean, after all they have great movements, capoeira/martial arts)

The healing trolls get is more shamanism/wolf style.

Trolls play with chaotic elements, not necessarily benevolent either. I mean all i can think about when i see shaman class, mostly i think about: Draeneis, orcs and trolls.

It's totally different from what i feel about druidism.

Not saying they can't be druids, but when we need to put sense on races to not be druids, and zandalari trolls just get it, i feel like making a statement about trolls themselves and even kultirans (but they look really badass tho.)

I think it was also a question of balance:

Horde
4 Druids (Highmountain, tauren, troll, zandalari troll)

Alliance:
3 Druids (worgen, night elf, kultiran)

Imagine adding one more druid to the horde (nightborne). It would be 5. (Or even with upcoming vulpera 6).

Big disadvantage.

And if they added druid to nightborne for example instead of zandalari trolls there would be people also asking "so why can normal trolls have it but not zandalari?" And hightmountain was certain to be. So it would be another troll, or nightborne without a backup story for it, therefore they gave monks.

Shaman



Trolls:




Voodoo Shaman-ception.

[ravenmoon]

It's just what i said. Overtime it could happen. There's too many things Nightborne failed to be part of, and have been in "ignorance" only due to the fact they simply couldn't regardless. I think Nightbornes with time will choose what they want. Maybe blizzard will give them later druids. We don't know the future.

Some months, and years ago, we wouldn't even imagine dk would have been unlocked for all races for example. While before it would sound insane to think that would happen, it did. So you never know. I will never know. No one can possibly know. Blizzard decides what they want to do.

Now, for the most part, for more druids class on existent races, it has been quite proven that we need an expansion theme related to it. And i also don't think we will have that early or late. But maybe a "healing" "calm" expansion of sorts will come and druidism will be expanded.

I think at this point, everything can be talked about but never certain of anything. And the lore has retcons from leftovers of old lore. We have been having 2 expansions about stuff that happened supposedly in the past. Lack of creativity or not, there's always a possibility for many things to be susceptible to change as we know it right now.

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That made me laugh. It's quite true. But i also see druid more a tauren/elven thing in the end of the day. I see more voodoo magic/black magic than nature druids for trolls.
But since they said "stay awe from da voodoo" guess they went for druid.

Mojos; Shadow; Hexes; All this is more related to a troll.

Taurens are more connected to nature as elves.
So for me all types of Elves should be able to be druids with or without sophistication, and all kinds of taurens.

Trolls make sense as warlocks. Even tho they are surrounded by nature, but when any of us imagine them, we imagine the voodoo, the blood pacts, the elements of the nature (shaman).

Trolls should more likely just be shamans than druids.
Mage, warlock, shaman, hunter, death knight, warrior, monk as well (i mean, after all they have great movements, capoeira/martial arts)

The healing trolls get is more shamanism/wolf style.

Trolls play with chaotic elements, not necessarily benevolent either. I mean all i can think about when i see shaman class, mostly i think about: Draeneis, orcs and trolls.

It's totally different from what i feel about druidism.

Not saying they can't be druids, but when we need to put sense on races to not be druids, and zandalari trolls just get it, i feel like making a statement about trolls themselves and even kultirans (but they look really badass tho.)

I think it was also a question of balance:

Horde
4 Druids (Highmountain, tauren, troll, zandalari troll)

Alliance:
3 Druids (worgen, night elf, kultiran)

Imagine adding one more druid to the horde (nightborne). It would be 5. (Or even with upcoming vulpera 6).

Big disadvantage.

And if they added druid to nightborne for example instead of zandalari trolls there would be people also asking "so why can normal trolls have it but not zandalari?" And hightmountain was certain to be. So it would be another troll, or nightborne without a backup story for it, therefore they gave monks.

Shaman

Troll
Voodoo Shaman-ception.

Nice response a d post. I agree with it. Trolls do have a much stronger shaman voodoo vibe lending to shaman, priest, warlock as their main classes and unique versions of it.

Warcraft druidsm and elves is it's own thing, and the way they presented druidsm was quite a sophisticated yet humble practitioner of nature magic at an advanced level based around nature love, this smacks of elves through and through and good easily have different t expressions of it in the various elven groups. If you can imagine night elf rangers and archers, and blood elf rangers and archers, you should be able to imagine druids for both and the game has given you blood elven druids in the Botanica as well as nightborne ones in the Nighthold in an adapted format that seemed to fit them...why this wasnt rolled out to the race as playable druids is a shame, wherever elves turn up there is always nature love showing g up with them in addition to arcane love.

And yes I strongly suspect nightborne not being druids is because they are on the horde, and they favoured Highmountain for it above them, and the class imbalance would have been too much.

I would have made void elf druids and written new lore to explain them centred around d druids and void elves working together to understand the void threat to the emerald dream leading some void elves to explore nature magic applications and interaction with void, - void elves seem heavily based on research classes exploring the void in various fields. Since void elf is a race not a class. As such, it is plausible that if you approach it from that emphasis, nature is also one of the chief areas of study along with arcane, light/void priestly stuff, even death etc, applications for stealth (rogue), hunting (hi ter) and enhanced physical combat (warrior) are all facet of study in how to maximise this to aid Azeroth. Helping nature and protecting the Emerald dream is one of the biggest and obvious things to work on, and is right up their street.

When you explain it like that, no one would find it odd that void elves can be druids and death knights as well, in fact it switches the perception of void elves from a class to a race and adds an interesting facet to nature, whereas nightborne further explores the balance druid aspect of the class that heavily involves the arcane and is right up their street because of the arcan'dor... it is a bit unusual that the arcan'dor plays such a large role in the nightborne currently, but there is no progression on the nature half of it amongst the race. No one would find druids being explored in this race in it's high arcane setting as odd because of the role of the arcan'dor and nature wielding nightborne already presented quite visibly in the Nighthold and gardens of Suramar

[LemonDemonGirl]

I personally think every race should be able to be anything, but with an appropriate skin when the base class doesn't make sense.

Same here. Other MMOs sometimes have it that any race can be any class, but with little lore explanation, I'd say.

Class skins could be done, they did green fire for Warlocks. That shows the have the technology for it

[Syegfryed]

It's totally different from what i feel about druidism.

Not saying they can't be druids, but when we need to put sense on races to not be druids, and zandalari trolls just get it, i feel like making a statement about trolls themselves and even kultirans (but they look really badass tho.)

you feel different because you and many, grow accustomed with the night elf/tauren kind and concept of druidism and that is not rly the only way of druidism, like there is not just one way of warriors, one way of shamans, one faith of paladins.

Druids in history, if you go for the base, like the Celtic pagan ones, are like priests and more akin to shamans, they match rly well the horde races with their tribal and spiritual ways.

in the game, Trolls druids go more for the savagery of nature, the call of the wild, and nature is not always love and veganism, it reflects their lives in the jungle, it is brute and nasty

Kul'tirans in other hand go more for the end aspect of the life/nature, the death aspect, but still life

those concepts are well spread and explained in games like D&D, its rly good to expand our minds about different kind of approach within the same class, there is the druids of the spores, something could go rly well in a wow setting

like a paladin can worship the light itself(humans) a Naa'ru(Draenei) or a Loa(trolls), different approach of the same thing

Horde
4 Druids (Highmountain, tauren, troll, zandalari troll)

Alliance:
3 Druids (worgen, night elf, kultiran)

Imagine adding one more druid to the horde (nightborne). It would be 5. (Or even with upcoming vulpera 6).

Big disadvantage

to be fair, horde remains with just 2 druids, trolls and taurens, if you put a different horn in the cat/bear will not make much difference, only the zandalari could be said to be rly different with the new forms, and will be 3 x 3 druids, still the same.

even if there is difference in the numbers, there is not "disadvantage" since there are more mages in the alliance by example, more paladins, etc, not everything is rly mirrored

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And yes I strongly suspect nightborne not being druids is because they are on the horde, and they favoured Highmountain for it above them, and the class imbalance would have been too much.

no, they are not druids because make literally zero sense of then being druids, they don't ave any lore to be druids, they don't have individuals druids, they are not a nature centered race and they don't show any of that, you don't have to bring up nonsense excuses

I would have made void elf druids and written new lore to explain them centred around d druids and void elves working together to understand the void threat to the emerald dream leading some void elves to explore nature magic applications and interaction with void,

of course you would do that, that little bias towards elf, but it make no sense at all, if a void elf enter the emerald dream it could just spread even more shit there

and the emerald dream is fine, there is little to no sense for then to do anything about that,and even if they work to "explore" the applications dont mean they would be druids