[Megathread] The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited

[Fkiolaris]

Dot meta only effected raids/vdungeons and pvp so if you are casual then you wouldn't care and shouldn't have a problem especially since casuals don't change builds as often as meta humpers do. No one is saying they didn't fuck up, but its partly on the players too, unless you are completely insane it was obviously going to be nerfed.

Again, I have to disagree mate. I might be a casual that used to do 20k single target when all these yoyo changes started, but I still do care about a) enjoying my playstyle and b) being competitive in the content I chose to do, at least enough to do such content. So yes, while it made zero difference for overland content other than maybe world bosses, it absolutely made a mess out of my characters for dungeons and BGs. Especially for dungeons, trying to tackle non-DLC vet pledges was practically not an option anymore when set-ups, gear and gameplay had to change every 3 months. If you are a hardcore player you can probably get over these pretty quickly and get back to business, if you are a casual you simply don't have enough time to adapt and enjoy the game before you have to change and adapt again. Hence why I left. So if they suggest they will try NOT to make drastic changes every 3 months, I will give ESO another go.

[Lazuli]

Again, I have to disagree mate. I might be a casual that used to do 20k single target when all these yoyo changes started, but I still do care about a) enjoying my playstyle and b) being competitive in the content I chose to do, at least enough to do such content. So yes, while it made zero difference for overland content other than maybe world bosses, it absolutely made a mess out of my characters for dungeons and BGs. Especially for dungeons, trying to tackle non-DLC vet pledges was practically not an option anymore when set-ups, gear and gameplay had to change every 3 months. If you are a hardcore player you can probably get over these pretty quickly and get back to business, if you are a casual you simply don't have enough time to adapt and enjoy the game before you have to change and adapt again. Hence why I left. So if they suggest they will try NOT to make drastic changes every 3 months, I will give ESO another go.

Why? Did you delete your previous gear? Can you not afford the gold for a skill respec? Your playstyle is still there, it never left.

"every 3 months" pls explain because I don't remember the other times, so many people say this but apparently I've been oblivious as fuck for the past 2 years. RARELY does gameplay change. I've noticed only some skill upgrades and I think DKs got a spammable now.

If you're gonna present an argument then explain what you're talking about don't just hop on the band wagon like every cuck on the official forums.

If you think ZoS even has the time or resources to make sweeping changes every 3 months you're delusional. Imagine any game in the industry doing that. The game is in a good spot right now with balance (at least pve) so I think its safe to say it will stay that way for a while.

[Fkiolaris]

Why? Did you delete your previous gear? Can you not afford the gold for a skill respec? Your playstyle is still there, it never left.

"every 3 months" pls explain because I don't remember the other times, so many people say this but apparently I've been oblivious as fuck for the past 2 years. RARELY does gameplay change. I've noticed only some skill upgrades and I think DKs got a spammable now.

If you're gonna present an argument then explain what you're talking about don't just hop on the band wagon like every cuck on the official forums.

If you think ZoS even has the time or resources to make sweeping changes every 3 months you're delusional. Imagine any game in the industry doing that. The game is in a good spot right now with balance (at least pve) so I think its safe to say it will stay that way for a while.

I am not sure if you are trolling or you just simply like talking bollocks.

No changes every 3 months? You know which way the forums are, go and read the notes for each major update for Elsweyr if you fancy, I am not going to put a TLDR for you here. But for some highlights, going from "put almost all dots on your bars for max dps" to "don't even bother with dots because they are a dps loss plus you can't sustain" within two consecutive patches is just business as usual. Taking casted abilities and slightly reducing the cast time while nerfing them to the ground (Dark Flare, Uppercut and morphs) is the same. Taking a defensive ultimate (Crescend Sweep) and turning it into a stamina offensive is "your play style is still there"

I wish you all the best in your enjoyment of the game mate, I got the answer to my question and this is off-topic now (and delusional band-wagoning on top of that )

[Lazuli]

I am not sure if you are trolling or you just simply like talking bollocks.

No changes every 3 months? You know which way the forums are, go and read the notes for each major update for Elsweyr if you fancy, I am not going to put a TLDR for you here. But for some highlights, going from "put almost all dots on your bars for max dps" to "don't even bother with dots because they are a dps loss plus you can't sustain" within two consecutive patches is just business as usual. Taking casted abilities and slightly reducing the cast time while nerfing them to the ground (Dark Flare, Uppercut and morphs) is the same. Taking a defensive ultimate (Crescend Sweep) and turning it into a stamina offensive is "your play style is still there"

I wish you all the best in your enjoyment of the game mate, I got the answer to my question and this is off-topic now (and delusional band-wagoning on top of that )

Its not bandwagoning I'm just trying to understand what you mean by every 3 months all you've presented was the dot fiasco.

Templar complaining about viability.. crescent sweep has always been an offensive so I'm not sure what yo mean by that. Empowering (stam) is the 1 that had major protection, which makes no sense in an offensive skill line because stam didn't have access to a dps version. It still functions mechanically the exact same way without major prot. Majors are supposed to be rare, that shit was op but you can still get it from multiple sets and remembrance.

I play dot on my magplar and it is still completely viable, stam even has access to the soul magic dot now that it scales with either resource.

Uppercut (dizzy swing) was toxic and it still functions similar you just need to follow up with a heavy attack or have 2 consecutive hits will stun or snare if they are CC immune so terribads can spam it still.

I don't see any issues or major changes with dark flare and I've been playing my templar for a while now. Its a spammable that got reduced cost and cast time for a nerf in dmg but it didn't change mechanically.

None of these are 'sweeping changes' or huge gameplay style changes, you're just complaining about balance, plot twist it happens in every MMO. I'm not even going to bother looking up patch release dates but I'm still laughing at the every 3 months my style changes thing.

The only thing I can think is that ppl like you are new to MMOs so you see balance updates as end of the world game changing shit..

[Aliven]

Soo i dont know if anybody is talking about this but here you go, changes coming to attacks, both light and heavy.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.co...-combat#latest

Maybe finally they finally do something

[Justpassing]

Soo i dont know if anybody is talking about this but here you go, changes coming to attacks, both light and heavy.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.co...-combat#latest

Maybe finally they finally do something

Ooooof... I mean I hate weaving too but this might just SWG the joint up

[Witchblade77]

those changes are terrible whether you weave or don't. what they are doing is not fixing it. its just trading one crappy meta for another crappy meta. there is some really good feedback already, so I hope they listen to it. but.. I'm not holding my breath, because historically, they haven't.

and incidentally i do not weave, i can't. That and I'm primarily an rpg player so my instinct is to use as many skills/abilities as possible and primarily use those skills and abilities. heavy on class specific ones. these changes? are not helpful at all. meh.

[Fkiolaris]

those changes are terrible whether you weave or don't. what they are doing is not fixing it. its just trading one crappy meta for another crappy meta. there is some really good feedback already, so I hope they listen to it. but.. I'm not holding my breath, because historically, they haven't.

and incidentally i do not weave, i can't. That and I'm primarily an rpg player so my instinct is to use as many skills/abilities as possible and primarily use those skills and abilities. heavy on class specific ones. these changes? are not helpful at all. meh.

Yes, I don't get why they don't shift power out the light/heavy attacks and put it into class abilities rather than play music chairs on which of the L/M/H attack weaving/stacking will be contributing stupid amounts of damage. At least they are making it sound that they appreciate it's a massive change and they might be willing to listen to feedback, I am just concerned that the no-weaving/AC crowd will be completely forgotten again, as per the most popular "feedback" thread on PTS right now.

[Greevir]

Yes, I don't get why they don't shift power out the light/heavy attacks and put it into class abilities rather than play music chairs on which of the L/M/H attack weaving/stacking will be contributing stupid amounts of damage. At least they are making it sound that they appreciate it's a massive change and they might be willing to listen to feedback, I am just concerned that the no-weaving/AC crowd will be completely forgotten again, as per the most popular "feedback" thread on PTS right now.

What is the point of weapons then? Weapons need to contribute a moderate percentage of damage or whats the point of even having them? Just have everyone run around bare fisted spamming their abilities! Oh, such fun!

[Lazuli]

Literally a SWG move. I've been testing it the last 2 days on pts.

A few points to note..
It doesn't remove weaving. It gives infinite sustain. It promotes a bad, slow playstyle.
It reduces dps by around 15-20%. It totally fucks LA sets/builds and completely ruins pvp. You can heavy 1shot in pvp on ptr.
It ruins sustain dmg especially in pvp for mag, LA does literal 0 dmg now its not even worth clicking (imagine having sustain issues on live lul).

It actually goes directly against and contradicts ZoS entire post and goal which is to soften the gap / floor whatever (cater to casual garbage players like every MMO before them) because it now introduce bash weaving with LA weave thx to infinite sustain and we're going to want our dps back obviously so yes this will be new meta. It also promote just being trash at the game in general so..yeah. 3 LA in a row = extra resource return lol... ya ok this is hello kitty levels of cancer.

We're in a great spot rn in terms of balance so this literally baffles my mind, I'm actually quitting if this goes through because its no longer about balance its about fucking over the good players and bringing them down to scrub level. ZoS comes out and says its a bad thing that there is skill disparity .. LOL. WHAT? I'm being punished for not being fucking retarded?

I predict these changes will go through and bash will be severely nerfed to prevent its use in new meta, game is now completely braindead and everyone spams heavies. Casuals win again.. though there are so many changes that would need to come with this ZoS will fuck themselves over so hard over this that it will really kill the game.

Anyone who plays this game beyond overworld and knows how to tie their shoes in the morning will see this is some seriously bad news , even if it doesn't happen, the very fact that they even THOUGHT this shit up spells extremely bad news for the game. For now I'm done, not gonna waste another minute if this is the future. I'm going to wait for the storm to be over and hope to the gods that these fucking idiots don't sw galaxy their own shit into the ground.

I held my tongue until I was sure its a horrible change, and were my expectations exceeded..

[Witchblade77]

What is the point of weapons then? Weapons need to contribute a moderate percentage of damage or whats the point of even having them? Just have everyone run around bare fisted spamming their abilities! Oh, such fun!

weapons should not be better then class skills. they should be a viable option, but NOT the default. you should be able to pick and chose weapons depending on your playstyle preference, NOT because a few specific weapons deal top dps and everything else you might as well be playing barefisted.
@Lazuli

the skill gap in this game is absolutely obscene. it HAS to be narrowed. we are not even remotely in a great spot when it comes to balance and we haven't been since Morrowind expansion.
however, those changes on pts right now? are not going to accomplish that, quite the contrary. remove 20% of your dps doesn't eliminate it though, because EVERYONE is losing that dps and THAT is part of the problem. this will hit casuals as badly if not worse as it will non casuals.

[Aliven]

Literally a SWG move. I've been testing it the last 2 days on pts.

A few points to note..
It doesn't remove weaving. It gives infinite sustain. It promotes a bad, slow playstyle.
It reduces dps by around 15-20%. It totally fucks LA sets/builds and completely ruins pvp. You can heavy 1shot in pvp on ptr.
It ruins sustain dmg especially in pvp for mag, LA does literal 0 dmg now its not even worth clicking (imagine having sustain issues on live lul).

It actually goes directly against and contradicts ZoS entire post and goal which is to soften the gap / floor whatever (cater to casual garbage players like every MMO before them) because it now introduce bash weaving with LA weave thx to infinite sustain and we're going to want our dps back obviously so yes this will be new meta. It also promote just being trash at the game in general so..yeah. 3 LA in a row = extra resource return lol... ya ok this is hello kitty levels of cancer.

We're in a great spot rn in terms of balance so this literally baffles my mind, I'm actually quitting if this goes through because its no longer about balance its about fucking over the good players and bringing them down to scrub level. ZoS comes out and says its a bad thing that there is skill disparity .. LOL. WHAT? I'm being punished for not being fucking retarded?

I predict these changes will go through and bash will be severely nerfed to prevent its use in new meta, game is now completely braindead and everyone spams heavies. Casuals win again.. though there are so many changes that would need to come with this ZoS will fuck themselves over so hard over this that it will really kill the game.

Anyone who plays this game beyond overworld and knows how to tie their shoes in the morning will see this is some seriously bad news , even if it doesn't happen, the very fact that they even THOUGHT this shit up spells extremely bad news for the game. For now I'm done, not gonna waste another minute if this is the future. I'm going to wait for the storm to be over and hope to the gods that these fucking idiots don't sw galaxy their own shit into the ground.

I held my tongue until I was sure its a horrible change, and were my expectations exceeded..

You seems to be wonderfull person to be around, especially in video game.

- - - Updated - - -

weapons should not be better then class skills. they should be a viable option, but NOT the default. you should be able to pick and chose weapons depending on your playstyle preference, NOT because a few specific weapons deal top dps and everything else you might as well be playing barefisted.
@Lazuli

the skill gap in this game is absolutely obscene. it HAS to be narrowed. we are not even remotely in a great spot when it comes to balance and we haven't been since Morrowind expansion.
however, those changes on pts right now? are not going to accomplish that, quite the contrary. remove 20% of your dps doesn't eliminate it though, because EVERYONE is losing that dps and THAT is part of the problem. this will hit casuals as badly if not worse as it will non casuals.

As i understand there is no more weaving, use skills till depleted, use light attacks 3 times to give yourself resources, use more skills and then smack with heavy attacks. Or use dots and then they are on target smack with heavy attacks.

I would gladly take that above any weaving combat. Animation canceling, stutter stepping and similiar shits are absolute cancer on gameplay.

[Witchblade77]

You seems to be wonderfull person to be around, especially in video game.

- - - Updated - - -



As i understand there is no more weaving, use skills till depleted, use light attacks 3 times to give yourself resources, use more skills and then smack with heavy attacks. Or use dots and then they are on target smack with heavy attacks.

I would gladly take that above any weaving combat. Animation canceling, stutter stepping and similiar shits are absolute cancer on gameplay.

oh no, there is still weaving and animation canceling. that hasn't gone away. they messed a bit with how the game checks LoS and distance when it comes to firing abilities (which mostly affects people in pvp, as in pve dps rarely have the same movement concerns as positioning is very different from pvp combat), but they didn't remove weaving or animation canceling. what this change does is makes people priorities raw damage buffs more then ever and slightly changes gear meta. it actualy makes sustain for weavers - easier then ever. meanwhile, if play heavy attack builds, you are kinda screwed if you actualy want to be using abilities. aka, have fun if you play support roles. of course... you can always just cheese it by heavy attacking with resto stuff. THAT's how messed up this change is.

what you think these changes do? they are not doing that. not even slightly.

[Justpassing]

Literally a SWG move. I've been testing it the last 2 days on pts.

A few points to note..
It doesn't remove weaving. It gives infinite sustain. It promotes a bad, slow playstyle.
It reduces dps by around 15-20%. It totally fucks LA sets/builds and completely ruins pvp. You can heavy 1shot in pvp on ptr.
It ruins sustain dmg especially in pvp for mag, LA does literal 0 dmg now its not even worth clicking (imagine having sustain issues on live lul).

It actually goes directly against and contradicts ZoS entire post and goal which is to soften the gap / floor whatever (cater to casual garbage players like every MMO before them) because it now introduce bash weaving with LA weave thx to infinite sustain and we're going to want our dps back obviously so yes this will be new meta. It also promote just being trash at the game in general so..yeah. 3 LA in a row = extra resource return lol... ya ok this is hello kitty levels of cancer.

We're in a great spot rn in terms of balance so this literally baffles my mind, I'm actually quitting if this goes through because its no longer about balance its about fucking over the good players and bringing them down to scrub level. ZoS comes out and says its a bad thing that there is skill disparity .. LOL. WHAT? I'm being punished for not being fucking retarded?

I predict these changes will go through and bash will be severely nerfed to prevent its use in new meta, game is now completely braindead and everyone spams heavies. Casuals win again.. though there are so many changes that would need to come with this ZoS will fuck themselves over so hard over this that it will really kill the game.

Anyone who plays this game beyond overworld and knows how to tie their shoes in the morning will see this is some seriously bad news , even if it doesn't happen, the very fact that they even THOUGHT this shit up spells extremely bad news for the game. For now I'm done, not gonna waste another minute if this is the future. I'm going to wait for the storm to be over and hope to the gods that these fucking idiots don't sw galaxy their own shit into the ground.

I held my tongue until I was sure its a horrible change, and were my expectations exceeded..

Don't worry, be happy!

[Fkiolaris]

What is the point of weapons then? Weapons need to contribute a moderate percentage of damage or whats the point of even having them? Just have everyone run around bare fisted spamming their abilities! Oh, such fun!

Witchblade covered me with their answer. All I will add is that I hope there is a happy medium where you are unquestionably defined by your class while your weapon and other skill-lines are refining how you play. My suggestion was with that in mind: keep the current gameplay intact as the top dps style, but bring it down in terms of performance while bringing up the options that rely more on class skills and little to no LA or AC.

Obviously, I believe that on its own this is not enough simply because I feel ZOS is trying to tackle a different problem (accessibility to content) in the wrong way (by "fixing" the gameplay). Power-creep that affects PvP as much as PvE, substantial increase of difficulty of the "bottom-tier" group content (normal dungeons) and locking main story elements behind said dungeons means that most casuals only got piss-easy overland content to do in the last expansion or two and they don't even get to experience the full story anyway. Those are things that can and should be dealt with before they even touch the weapon attacks and general gameplay, at least in my opinion.

[Aliven]

oh no, there is still weaving and animation canceling. that hasn't gone away. they messed a bit with how the game checks LoS and distance when it comes to firing abilities (which mostly affects people in pvp, as in pve dps rarely have the same movement concerns as positioning is very different from pvp combat), but they didn't remove weaving or animation canceling. what this change does is makes people priorities raw damage buffs more then ever and slightly changes gear meta. it actualy makes sustain for weavers - easier then ever. meanwhile, if play heavy attack builds, you are kinda screwed if you actualy want to be using abilities. aka, have fun if you play support roles. of course... you can always just cheese it by heavy attacking with resto stuff. THAT's how messed up this change is.

what you think these changes do? they are not doing that. not even slightly.

How it makes sustain by weaving easier? To get the best you need to use 3 light attacks one after another without interrupting the chain.

If using heavy attack build would it not be best to use dots and just smack while the dots ticks?

[Witchblade77]

How it makes sustain by weaving easier? To get the best you need to use 3 light attacks one after another without interrupting the chain.

If using heavy attack build would it not be best to use dots and just smack while the dots ticks?

light attacks will be returning resources. THAT is where sustain will be coming from. and no, to do the best, you need to weave your light attacks in between your skills. skills have a global cooldown and light attacks have a global cooldown, but that cooldown is NOT shared, so weaving allows you to fire off a skill AND a light attack within a single global cooldown - that is why weaving makes such a difference. you do NOT use consecutive light attacks when weaving. meanwhile heavy attacks with this change? are getting their resource return REMOVED.

as for animation canceling, some of it is done via weaving. not all though. and the only way to solve it is to normalize animations and cast times. right now, there are a LOT of animations that last longer then cast times of skills those animations are associated with. so in context of increasing dps via animation canceling, what players do is shorten the appearance of the cast to its actual cast time. most of the time what you are canceling is animations for light attacks rather then skills. since light attacks are instant cast, but their animations.. are not. but there are also some skills that do that as well, and by timing things like block or bar swap just right - high end players are able to essentially use more abilities in less time. and this would NOT be a thing if ZoS's animations weren't so out of sync with their ability cast times. which is what they have so clumsily attempted to fix with their most recent block changes. lets just say, it didn't work as intended.

[Aliven]

light attacks will be returning resources. THAT is where sustain will be coming from. and no, to do the best, you need to weave your light attacks in between your skills. skills have a global cooldown and light attacks have a global cooldown, but that cooldown is NOT shared, so weaving allows you to fire off a skill AND a light attack within a single global cooldown - that is why weaving makes such a difference. you do NOT use consecutive light attacks when weaving. meanwhile heavy attacks with this change? are getting their resource return REMOVED.

as for animation canceling, some of it is done via weaving. not all though. and the only way to solve it is to normalize animations and cast times. right now, there are a LOT of animations that last longer then cast times of skills those animations are associated with. so in context of increasing dps via animation canceling, what players do is shorten the appearance of the cast to its actual cast time. most of the time what you are canceling is animations for light attacks rather then skills. since light attacks are instant cast, but their animations.. are not. but there are also some skills that do that as well, and by timing things like block or bar swap just right - high end players are able to essentially use more abilities in less time. and this would NOT be a thing if ZoS's animations weren't so out of sync with their ability cast times. which is what they have so clumsily attempted to fix with their most recent block changes. lets just say, it didn't work as intended.

So the "fix" would be to make light attacks and skills share a global cd. That way the weaving would be impossible. That doesnt sound hard to apply. Ofc assuming weaving light attacks is even worthwhile after the nerfs.

Also, with the new changes would it be possible to maintain standard rotation for 5+ minutes with only weaving light attacks? Because the more light attacks you make the higher the resource return. And base return for single light attack was reduced, but dont remember if that was in ptr notes.

[Witchblade77]

So the "fix" would be to make light attacks and skills share a global cd. That way the weaving would be impossible. That doesnt sound hard to apply. Ofc assuming weaving light attacks is even worthwhile after the nerfs.

Also, with the new changes would it be possible to maintain standard rotation for 5+ minutes with only weaving light attacks? Because the more light attacks you make the higher the resource return. And base return for single light attack was reduced, but dont remember if that was in ptr notes.

ZoS doesn't want weaving to be impossible. they have embraced it. they like that it exists - they acknowledge that its what keeps ESO combat different from other MMO's and they are NOT doing away with it. I'm pretty sure I saw a login screen tip talking about it. the nerf was to damage component of a light attack. however, they still do some damage, and now that they also return resources - weaving is more worth it that ever. gotta do something while that skill cooldown is happening, might as well feed sustain with it. new changes are making it MORE possible then on live right now, because on live - light attacks do NOT return resources. heavy attacks do. on pts - its been flipped.

and to reiterate. weaving is not spamming light attacks. weaving is adding light attacks in between skill used to double up your actions essentially. light attacks cost no resources. they are free damage. same for heavy attacks. and red headed stepchild - medium attacks that people only make by accident. that stacking resource buff to maximum return? is completely pointless to a skilled weaver. its a dps loss.

but in any case, they reduced the damage from light attacks, while increasing the damage to heavy attacks. and while its creates a possibility for heavy attack ONLY builds, those are not top dps builds or even medium dps builds for people who cannot weave. they are slow action cheese builds. meanwhile, because light attacks are now returning resources? they take sustain completely out of consideration for anyone that weaves well. yes, damage was reduced for top dps. however. skill gap was NOT narrowed. skill only builds are STILL not viable. and if you had a heavy attack build that helped you with sustain - like a lot of support builds? you are going to have MUCH harder time now, cause no more sustain from heavy attacks.

these changes suck for everyone who does anything beyond questing. and for some who are questing as well - mostly newer people who have no cp to help them out.

the one saving grace is that these changes are not final just yet and they are just testing them out. so its possible that we are going to dodge THIS bullet.

and this thread offers some much more reasonable IMO alternatives https://forums.elderscrollsonline.co...one-instead/p1

[ro9ue]

Not to derail the discussion going on about the changes, but there's only one ESO thread.

I like efficiency so I want to pick a separate race for each class, and at least 2 of each faction. I want them to be ok stat wise for the class, but also kinda fit well lore wise. Thoughts on this set up:

Warden - Argonian
Necromancer - Dark Elf
Dragonknight - Orc
Sorcerer - Breton
Templar - High Elf
Nightblade - Khajiit

The Sorcerer/Templar are the two choices I least confident in.