I can't be the only one predicting a permanent level 60 cap

[vertigo12]

I seriously doubt a perma lvl 60 cap, theyre just doing the squish because 120lvls is a bit daunting even to veteran players. Theyll probably go to 60 and go back up from there.

Which is could've been remedied if they try to explain: Look you're not completely leveling new class or allied races with 120 levels. Don't let the numbers fool you. What we can do is ease the leveling process by letting things as it is and readjust the XP rate from the existing level brackets and perhaps make some wiggle room.

Vs.

We will have a permanent feature: every expac we will reset your level to 50 and you will level up 10 levels to experience end game content of x.0... which is bs.

[Big Thanks]

Could someone give me an history lesson of any other major change like this done to WoW?

WoW is famous for only taking tiny little baby steps...a tiny hop here...a little cute bunny hop there...etc

A change like this...would be nuclear to the game.
Other MMO's pioneered in this nuclear change...i dont see Blizzard releasing this bomb to its own game...

Baby steps, remember?

edit: I just read the OP's idea...and is not what i thought...sorry. Seems like a decent baby step Very Blizzard-like actually

[vertigo12]

Could someone give me an history lesson of any other major change like this done to WoW?

WoW is famous for only taking tiny little baby steps...a tiny hop here...a little cute bunny hop there...etc

A change like this...would be nuclear to the game.
Other MMO's pioneered in this nuclear change...i dont see Blizzard releasing this bomb to its own game...

Baby steps, remember?

When Legion was released they implemented Leveling brackets. And all Zones for the current expac scales to max level. Same treatment for BfA.

Old world content 1-60
TBC-WotlK -61-80
Cata and MoP share another level bracket 81-90
WoD is a 10 level experience

Imagine 120 worth of content trying to .zip everything and compress into a 50Mb folder???

If they did X3 or x5 exp for level 1-90
WoD-Legion and BfA will be Tier II bracket L100-120 at x2 to X3 exp

[Big Thanks]

When Legion was released they implemented Leveling brackets. And all Zones for the current expac scales to max level. Same treatment for BfA.

Vanillla-TBC-Wrath share the same level bracket.
Cata and MoP share another level bracket
WoD is a 10 level experience

Imagine 120 worth of content trying to .zip everything and compress into a 50Mb folder???

I admit i didnt read the OP I assumed he was a Guild Wars 2 player (>_<)
Yeah his idea seems very Blizzard-alike

[Omedon]

edit: I just read the OP's idea...and is not what i thought...sorry. Seems like a decent baby step Very Blizzard-like actually

Yeah the big leap is the level squish itself, and that's confirmed. Perpetuating said squish is actually... effort-neutral, even negative, which does line up with a maintained feature and Blizzard's usual approach.

[Biomega]

This whole level crunch and level readjustment isn't a very wise and logical move just to address level up speed

That's only a secondary reason. The main reason is that number inflation in general is a problem for various reasons, both perceptual and mechanical. While it would come down to pretty much the same thing if you kill an enemy in 20 seconds whether or not you're dealing 50,000,000,000 damage or 50 damage per hit, one is a clear perceptual outlier and mechanically more involved (bigger numbers take more bits to store, for example, they take more visual real estate, etc. etc.). Smaller numbers make individual increments feel more meaningful, even if they average out to the same thing - and that's very important.

[SkagenRora]

NTY, leveling is part of an RPG

It just means that every expansion you get bumped to lvl 50, then XP until 60

[vertigo12]

Yeah the big leap is the level squish itself, and that's confirmed. Perpetuating said squish is actually... effort-neutral, even negative, which does line up with a maintained feature and Blizzard's usual approach.

Which they are very much known for? Prune un-prune skills, talents, renamed rehashed skill effect being reintroduced at future exp.. God, they never get tired of doing this...I'm sorry but they will be having hard time fooling long time players already and selling the "we got a fresh and brand new idea/concept"!

[Nagawithlegs]

I don't think anyone would ACTUALLY quit solely over something like perma 60. They may write that it is, or add it to a list of things they hate about modern wow that causes them to quit, but I don't think it's a big factor.

[huth]

That's only a secondary reason. The main reason is that number inflation in general is a problem for various reasons, both perceptual and mechanical. While it would come down to pretty much the same thing if you kill an enemy in 20 seconds whether or not you're dealing 50,000,000,000 damage or 50 damage per hit, one is a clear perceptual outlier and mechanically more involved (bigger numbers take more bits to store, for example, they take more visual real estate, etc. etc.). Smaller numbers make individual increments feel more meaningful, even if they average out to the same thing - and that's very important.

Since the game is written in C and C++, variable size is fixed. So whether you have 50 Billion or 50 damage is largely irrelevant on the mechanical side, and not actually that big an issue on the UI side either.

The real purpose wasn't numbers, it was getting rid of "empty" levels where you don't really get anything, often for several levels. I.e. spreading out talents and abilities over to many levels.

[vertigo12]

I don't think anyone would ACTUALLY quit solely over something like perma 60. They may write that it is, or add it to a list of things they hate about modern wow that causes them to quit, but I don't think it's a big factor.

Sorry but character level is one milestone in RPG games and every game built on level-up mechanics /system. The higher the number of character level is a clear representation or means that you have progressed that very far and as you reached a milestone.
Think Super Mario using a world system and 1-10 stages or the mechanics on Candy Crush Saga and mobile games sharing the same concept. Even PvZ.

What's the point of their achievement system then if they will rehash their max level every expac from 50 to 60, again and again and again? What's the point of a level 60 perma cap or if not something like that, they will increase the level again on the next expac from 60 onwards and when it reach 120 again, they will crunch the level once again??? I don't get the purpose of an action like that.

Maybe it would be understandable if they explained a multiverse like system in SL. They will start at level 1 to 60 as new world will be added, etc, etc.

[Triceron]

They should just make all expansion leveling exclusive to the expansion.

Treat it like Paragon in D3, and each expansion is a new 'Season'. Paragon would reset upon new season, and you get some residual carry over but nothing that gives you an immediate boost in the new expansion where you would be on-par with everyone else. The residual carry over could apply to any world content outside of the new expansion, much like how dynamic scaling already works.

So just like in every expansion, you're continually growing in power in the open world and in all past expansion content. Yet in the new expansion, you only progress in power based on 'Shadowlands Paragon'. Once Shadowlands is said and done, all the Shadowlands Paragon gets converted to standard Paragon. Since this system has diminishing returns, your character wouldn't be exponentially growing in power after each expansion. You're still gaining power but it would be less and less overall gains in the open world, while being much more impactful for the leveling experience in the current expansion since your gains are not affected by diminishing returns as much.

[vertigo12]

Since the game is written in C and C++, variable size is fixed. So whether you have 50 Billion or 50 damage is largely irrelevant on the mechanical side, and not actually that big an issue on the UI side either.

The real purpose wasn't numbers, it was getting rid of "empty" levels where you don't really get anything, often for several levels. I.e. spreading out talents and abilities over to many levels.

Regardless of this initiative or what else their reasoning behind,since WOD they have created a 20 levels worth of "empty levels" without spreading new talent or ability levels when that should've been the " class remodeling" they should have done. Now that they reintroduced spell ranks once again.
When was the last time did a class gain a new ability? 80 something??? So what was their solution, chunk in legiondary effects, WoD perks, Azerite traits and bake them into the ability because they have nothing else to add and bloat tell their players, we did something new to your class and would change how you play your character. bs!

See how stupid their decision making skills are??? They wanted to remove ability level and ranks only to reintroduce it on a later expac cause they have exhausted all their ideas in character progression. Seriously is it the game WoW the plaything or the playerbase??

[Big Thanks]

Sorry but character level is one milestone in RPG games and every game built on level-up mechanics /system. The higher the number of character level is a clear representation or means that you have progressed that very far and as you reached a milestone.
Think Super Mario using a world system and 1-10 stages or the mechanics on Candy Crush Saga and mobile games sharing the same concept. Even PvZ.

What's the point of their achievement system then if they will rehash their max level every expac from 50 to 60, again and again and again? What's the point of a level 60 perma cap or if not something like that, they will increase the level again on the next expac from 60 onwards and when it reach 120 again, they will crunch the level once again??? I don't get the purpose of an action like that.

Maybe it would be understandable if they explained a multiverse like system in SL. They will start at level 1 to 60 as new world will be added, etc, etc.

I know "i dont see how a change like this could hurt the game in any way or form" are famous last words in WoW's game design.

But...i actually dont see the problem here...who cares about "big PP number" (Pewdiepie reference)
Does it feel good when a famous youtuber tells you have a "big PP"?
Same of world of warcraft level number...i dont see the point.

But this are famous last words. I dont actually know

[vertigo12]

I know "i dont see how a change like this could hurt the game in any way or form" are famous last words in WoW's game design.

But...i actually dont see the problem here...who cares about "big PP number" (Pewdiepie reference)
Does it feel good when a famous youtuber tells you have a "big PP"?
Same of world of warcraft level number...i dont see the point.

But this are famous last words. I dont actually know

If you ask me it is an accomplishment. Reaching L1-1000 means you have gone through a lot. You're like Gandalf the Grey or Dumbledore in terms of recognition and experience.

Character level for me is like a mileage on your car meter. It tells you how long have you been traveling and how much you''ve been through. It only shows that such level you were deserving enough to weild the shattered pieces of Frostmourne and become a death Lord or an archmage. Well how does the new allied races fit in the whole story, *shrugs*, itbs a jumbled mess.

[Protar95]

I really do not get the 'outrage' of people finding it awful to level 50-60 over again every exp. Don't we get to be 10 levels short from top and level 10 more levels every new expansion anyway? How does it really matter what number it is?

I find that going with a 1-50 any exp and 50-60 current content bracket is a very elegant solution, which adds to the game's longevity in terms of replayability with alts. A new player will be able to enjoy every single exp if they want, one per each alt, rather than blaze through the leveling process as fast as possible without having a clue about the Lore.

Also, it will probably change how the leveling Dungeons are populated. We will have more people running them... and just as there are lower level tier twinks for pvp, we could see the birth of more lvl-50 pve guilds focused on clearing old raids from a specific exp.

I have always purchased the latest exp, but I have also had a number of guildmates (we are socials, clearly) only running a sub because the exp price is too high for their pockets at launch. This will greatly enhance their experience, too.

People like seeing numbers go up. It's as simple as that. When you increase the level cap, players gain more power. When you squish the cap everyone is weaker and progress back to the same point they were last expansion. In terms of relative power those two are the same thing but one certainly feels better than the other. It's also why they experimented with 5 level expansions to prevent numbers getting too big, but switched back to 10 level expansions because even though it didn't really make a difference, levelling up 10 levels was more satisfying. I support a squish after several expansions to prevent numbers getting crazy - because that's also a matter of what feels good. You could mete out xp gains so that 1-120 was faster than 1-60 or even so 1-1000 was faster, but the bigger number feels more daunting. It's about that balance. When does it feel better to be progressing each expansion versus when does it feel better to move down to a less daunting number? Lvl 100 seems like a good number to me.

[huth]

But this are famous last words. I dont actually know

I'm fairly certain telling people you have a big pp is rarely going to be a good idea.

[rhorle]

With over 120 levels... people in the industry started using wow as a joke for elveling and how bad games can get with no level squishs... so its a good thing and Blizzard will keep it this way.

Hardly. WoW is not the only game to have high levels. It will also not be the last. Heck Everquest has a level cap of 115 with their latest expansion in 2019. Not to mention its AA which is just levels rebranded.

- - - Updated - - -

Because two of their expac's storyline could've been told within 5 levels. Cata 81-85, MoP 86-90. And they might do it once again in SL and the next expac. From 61-65 10.0 and 66-70 by 11.0

Any story can be told in any combination of levels included zero or one. Because levels are arbitrary to the process of quests and levels. Even at launch of BfA you could still hit level cap before finishing all 3 zones. Yet the story still played out the same because of progression through the zone that is independent of levels. Levels are just a gating mechanic for the end game content. It allows the game to be paced slightly to gently introduce people into the newer content rather then dumping everything right away. It also helps to spread out releases for the first raids (or whatever else) by assuming a period of leveling up.

But levels have always been arbitrary to the story. Which is why you know the story still plays out with level scaling in the old world.

[huth]

Hardly. WoW is not the only game to have high levels. It will also not be the last. Heck Everquest has a level cap of 115 with their latest expansion in 2019. Not to mention its AA which is just levels rebranded.

And that's ignoring that games with level caps much, much higher than that have existed before. Anarchy Online started with 200. Disgaea goes all the way to 9999, and then expects you to reset and relevel. Repeatedly.

[rhorle]

Exp readjustment, item level readjustment and power gain, and with all this scaling mechanics being implemented all across the board, you're telling me that a drop from SFK would be as strong as your artifact weapon due to level scaling and it would be the weapon I can use to kill Argus?!

No. Because of story. I can kill Argus with level 1 gear by being carried. Sure I'd die on the attempt but I'd still be part of the kill effort. That doesn't mean that Argus was killed by that level 1 weapon. Because story plays out independent of levels since you know levels are a purely mechanic creation. The levels that we as players earn do not exist in the lore of the game world.