9.0 General Discussion

[Syegfryed]

As someone who hates Heirlooms, I'm glad the EXP is gone. There's absolutely no need for it, especially with the level squish and XP boost for questing, ya know?

why would you hate other people leveling up faster? like, what is up to you, you are not forced to use any.

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its because the current blizz writers like to jerk themselves off by creating new villains who are even more dangerous and EVIIIIL than the villains before (like sargeras and void lords/jailer)
its all they are capable of doing, and they genuinely think its good

i think the worse thing is how they indeed think is good, and act in shock that the playerbase don't share their awesome taste in crap

Something i find funny is how they put veressa there in the horde side and went "just a prank guys", like sure i buy that

or when they slowly try to make Calia relevant to the horde, but the outcry is so loud that they have to back down, but it is/was their ultimate goal

[Chickat]

I'm not really feeling the new world quests either. Its fill the bar. I wanted something new. Its 8.3 assaults but slightly more directed.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

"But here, there is a major titan plus plus level antagonist that we are facing" Uhm...WHAT THE FUCK ION?! Holy shit...

Will we actually be stronger than Sargeras by the end of Shadowlands or some shit? Cause oh my god...

Frankly at this point we might just be becoming Azeroth (Titan).

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I'm not really feeling the new world quests either. Its fill the bar. I wanted something new. Its 8.3 assaults but slightly more directed.

Yeah somehow they brought back the literal worst implementation of the Daily Quest system. The WoD version.

Which, honestly, feels like a recurring theme this expansion. Like maybe we should start calling this WoD2 after our MoP2 that was BFA.

[tristannarutofan]

I'm not really feeling the new world quests either. Its fill the bar. I wanted something new. Its 8.3 assaults but slightly more directed.

I really cant think of anything better than "Do what you want"

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Honestly I always thought that was a good way for it to work out. Azeroth is too wounded to ever be born so instead she invests everything into us, her chosen champions. So all of us become mini-Titans

If BFA ended with that I would have grumbled a lot but ultimately not complained because hey I'd probably qualify as a hypocrite for bashing Blizz for that after I play XIV. But could we maybe not take 2-3 expansions to get to that pretty obvious endgame, Blizzard?

[tristannarutofan]

Artifacts are only "better" because of the cool cosmetics you could unlock in regards to them.

When you look back on how shit Class Design was in Legion and how they obviously used the Artifact and Lgendaries to plug holes in it then no, it wasn't a good system.


Rental Design is fine if you BASE CLASSES are full and fun by themselves. The Rental system should be toppings to an already complete burger.


Shadowlands once again shows a reliance on using the rental systems to "complete" barebones classes.

ignoring the fact that ...

if the class is designed around using the 'borrowed power' then the 'borrowed power' is part of the class. The only alternative is to not have anything at all, or have that power not help you in any way. You have to do 100% So if you tac something onto that then it has to take away from your baseline.

And this isnt...hard to understand or figure out. its literally a hunter passive. You do 10% more dmg, unless you have a pet, which should provide about a 10% damage boost.

In wrath it was just our power so we did 100% of our dmg. in legion we had artifacts so a % of our power was artifacts.

i mean it might slightly maybe a little bit take away from content before the expansion but like.... "oh no i have 1 less ability and do 10% less dmg because i'm lvl 50 and the other guy in the timewalk is lvl 60" isnt game breaking or even slightly inconvenient.

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but yea if a class is designed aroudn the idea that 'you will have a artifact to 'plug the hole" then that plug is PART of the class design

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its because the current blizz writers like to jerk themselves off by creating new villains who are even more dangerous and EVIIIIL than the villains before (like sargeras and void lords/jailer)
its all they are capable of doing, and they genuinely think its good

yea sorry if i dont give any credence to this b.s. statement.

yea if the heroes get stronger than the next thing to 'threaten' them needs to be stronger still. there are other ways to do things but its like saying "oh so your HERO is opposed by a VILLAIN, how original *eyeroll*"

like god. the game has got to be good if the best criticisms out there are "they are bad because they are using a regular writing technique" . "they are bad because your fantasy character's power partially comes from their magic weapon', "they are bad because that rogue does 2% more dmg than me"

at what point do you log off and calm down

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That recent interview with Danuser and the other guy was hilarious.

They spent the entire interview patting themselves on the back for a job well done. The only criticism they had for themselves is that they didn't make their "amazing" plot threads more apparent. As in, it was a disjointed mess.

^ the circle jerk continues

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Also note that our first Raid Boss is Sire Denathrius, a Pantheon of Death member who should be as powerful as a Titan (Considering the Pantheon of Death are ON PAR with the Titans, as confirmed in a recent WoWhead interview). And judging by what we've seen so far, there's a high chance we're not getting that much help against this guy. That would mean, in 9.0 ALONE, we the Players are Titan level...

we are empowered by our convenant and soul bonded. if Sylvannas' soulbind with the jailer is able to give her that power boost then our attatchment to our soulbinds probably give almost as much.

did that interview suggest that the pantheon of death was as physically powerful as the titans? cus i figured when they said that they just meant they are like...the bosses of the shadowlands

like rezan was the god of kings but he still got muuuurdeeeerred

[Sondrelk]

I'm not really feeling the new world quests either. Its fill the bar. I wanted something new. Its 8.3 assaults but slightly more directed.

What would you want it to be then? Seems to me that a slight improvement on the 8.3 system is the ideal. Yes it is similar to WoD dailies, but they had other problems than it being a simple bar to fill, and the 8.3 assaults had more to do than just killing stuff mindlessly.

Honestly, emissaries never made much sense anyways, and always ended up where you picked the 4 easiest ones, usually the ones to kill a rare.

[TheFirstOnes]

ignoring the fact that ...

we are empowered by our convenant and soul bonded. if Sylvannas' soulbind with the jailer is able to give her that power boost then our attatchment to our soulbinds probably give almost as much.

did that interview suggest that the pantheon of death was as physically powerful as the titans? cus i figured when they said that they just meant they are like...the bosses of the shadowlands

like rezan was the god of kings but he still got muuuurdeeeerred

Idk why they'd be below the Titans in the power, considering the Jailer's confirmed to be a Titan++ Level Threat by Ion himself.

[Sondrelk]

This is really it. People like to call it borrowed power but ultimately class design will be around that power. If the classes were complete, design-wise, without that additional power, then that power would likely break them. Ultimately what this means is that specs will need some level of redesign in every single xpac that uses such a system.

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Btw the new corruption change is kind of bullshit. That means that at some point (when we cap the cloak at 125) people with high (75) but reasonable corruption might die simply because they tried to switch their cloak for a second (maybe to port to Org or SW).

It is only in combat, so you might die if you forget to put on the cloak before attacking something.

[Kumorii]

Btw the new corruption change is kind of bullshit. That means that at some point (when we cap the cloak at 125) people with high (75) but reasonable corruption might die simply because they tried to switch their cloak for a second (maybe to port to Org or SW).

? You only take damage if you are in combat... if you use a cloak to port somewhere you can't be in combat.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I'm not really feeling the new world quests either. Its fill the bar. I wanted something new. Its 8.3 assaults but slightly more directed.

Yea.. it immediately reminded me of WoD. Not a good thing.

[DemonDays]

ignoring the fact that ...

if the class is designed around using the 'borrowed power' then the 'borrowed power' is part of the class. The only alternative is to not have anything at all, or have that power not help you in any way. You have to do 100% So if you tac something onto that then it has to take away from your baseline.

And this isnt...hard to understand or figure out. its literally a hunter passive. You do 10% more dmg, unless you have a pet, which should provide about a 10% damage boost.

In wrath it was just our power so we did 100% of our dmg. in legion we had artifacts so a % of our power was artifacts.

i mean it might slightly maybe a little bit take away from content before the expansion but like.... "oh no i have 1 less ability and do 10% less dmg because i'm lvl 50 and the other guy in the timewalk is lvl 60" isnt game breaking or even slightly inconvenient.

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but yea if a class is designed aroudn the idea that 'you will have a artifact to 'plug the hole" then that plug is PART of the class design

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yea sorry if i dont give any credence to this b.s. statement.

yea if the heroes get stronger than the next thing to 'threaten' them needs to be stronger still. there are other ways to do things but its like saying "oh so your HERO is opposed by a VILLAIN, how original *eyeroll*"

like god. the game has got to be good if the best criticisms out there are "they are bad because they are using a regular writing technique" . "they are bad because your fantasy character's power partially comes from their magic weapon', "they are bad because that rogue does 2% more dmg than me"

at what point do you log off and calm down

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^ the circle jerk continues

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we are empowered by our convenant and soul bonded. if Sylvannas' soulbind with the jailer is able to give her that power boost then our attatchment to our soulbinds probably give almost as much.

did that interview suggest that the pantheon of death was as physically powerful as the titans? cus i figured when they said that they just meant they are like...the bosses of the shadowlands

like rezan was the god of kings but he still got muuuurdeeeerred

You keep talking about % of abilities. I don't think you can even grasp what's being discussed here.

No one gives a fuck about percentages or amount of damage done.

We care about flowing, functioning and fun classes AT THEIR BASE WITHOUT ANY BORROWED POWER TACKED ON. I don't think there's much discussion here to be had with you so I'll keep it short.

This is what the current talent trees + rental powers feel like for the majority of specs. You feel like you're completing a broken husk of a class through talents and borrowed power:

[FlemmMinis]

That's some serious dedication to a crusade only you persue.

[DemonDays]

This is really it. People like to call it borrowed power but ultimately class design will be around that power. If the classes were complete, design-wise, without that additional power, then that power would likely break them. Ultimately what this means is that specs will need some level of redesign in every single xpac that uses such a system.

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Btw the new corruption change is kind of bullshit. That means that at some point (when we cap the cloak at 125) people with high (75) but reasonable corruption might die simply because they tried to switch their cloak for a second (maybe to port to Org or SW).

Way to not grasp the crux of the problem, at all.

It is not unreasonable to want my class to flow and function at it's base. It is not unreasonable to want it to be FUN to play.


How about you just don't make the Rental Powers utterly ridiculous or don't make them plug obvious design flaws in the specs.... Because shocker - there won't be any obvious design flaws.


Imagine having a functioning Car and then adding new and exciting parts onto it. I know it's a real shocker of a concept.

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What would you want it to be then? Seems to me that a slight improvement on the 8.3 system is the ideal. Yes it is similar to WoD dailies, but they had other problems than it being a simple bar to fill, and the 8.3 assaults had more to do than just killing stuff mindlessly.

Honestly, emissaries never made much sense anyways, and always ended up where you picked the 4 easiest ones, usually the ones to kill a rare.

He's a fan of being able to kill a rare in 22 seconds and filling 1/4 of his Emissary out instantly. Then flying 45 seconds and killing another rare. Probably also a fan of having everything neatly labelled on the map with zero thought to it.


How can ANYONE be opposed to OPTIONS? This is infinitely better than the current dogshit World Quest/Emissary system. The current World Content in World of Warcraft is awful brain dead garbage.

You are literally given a choice on how you fill the Emissary bar in Shadowlands. For fucks sake you can even do dungeons to fill it. Incredible change.

[Cosmic Janitor]

If BFA ended with that I would have grumbled a lot but ultimately not complained because hey I'd probably qualify as a hypocrite for bashing Blizz for that after I play XIV. But could we maybe not take 2-3 expansions to get to that pretty obvious endgame, Blizzard?

I think in FFXIV this works simply because you are actually part of the story, you are acknowleged by NPCs and you fill the role of WoL. They also built it up since the launch of RR in a consistent fashion with some twists and turns and revels, instead of just handing it you as it would most likely happen in WoW at the beginning of an expansion. Also for some reason japanese games do the cringe shit with such sincerity, that they can pull it off without it coming across as offensive somehow.

[Syegfryed]

that made me laugh real hard here, and it totally feels like this

[Dracullus]

Yeah somehow they brought back the literal worst implementation of the Daily Quest system. The WoD version.

Which, honestly, feels like a recurring theme this expansion. Like maybe we should start calling this WoD2 after our MoP2 that was BFA.

The hell? WoD was "come to this specific spot and grind mobs or click things to fill bar veeeery slowly". SL is "do whatever in zone - quests, rares, even dungeons". You think SL version is same cause you see bar to fill?

[DemonDays]

that made me laugh real hard here, and it totally feels like this

Have another then:

[huth]

Does it need to happen every single time? No, definitely not.

Yet that is exactly what the playerbase would demand they do. It isn't just 2 abilities like you tell yourself.

I'm not saying that every single system should persist through every expansion

And how are they to decide which ones to keep? You're not actually providing a solution, you're just dumping a bucket of paint on the problem.

[Shakana]

If covenants fails by being restricted, abilities will be accessible to everyone

Says Ion Hazzikostas on a Interview: https://www.pcgamer.com/wow-covenant...ffer-pcgamertw

"I think, for us, freely being able to change all of these things such that they no longer become part of your character's identity but are just yet another toggle or switch in your loadout ... that's a last resort that we would only turn to if all else has failed along the way," he said. "I'm not completely, irrevocably closing the door to that option, but we see it as a last resort."