Zen 3

[mrgreenthump]

I am kind of interested to see the 8 core amd vs the 16 core. The reason being one is a monolithic core and the other uses 2 chiplets, the latter having some disadvantages in gaming previously. Maybe something to look out for.

8 cores is still a lot of cores

Gamer's Nexus has a 5800X review up. They had one or two games where it was better than other Zen3 parts by like under than 1% and a few where it ran out of cores to leverage. But in general the 5600X is so close to it, for pure gaming the 5800X doesn't make much sense. And given the 5900X is not a lot more expensive and better(even in gaming(although it's a wash most of the time)) on average than the 5800X, the 5800X doesn't make sense as a higher end option either.

There are some niche situations where you can OC the 5800X to be the best out of all of them in a few games.

[ff50dccd-a222-42f3-a786]

- 20% IPC increase was a hoax as expected. There is 20-25% performance uplift, but most of it is due to frequency. IPC increase is between 7-12%.

It's 19%.

- 5600X might not be worth it considering the price, especially if 3600 actually starts costing meaningfully lower than 3600X again.

Of course, it's worth every $ but there is a mobo price in the equation.

Honestly, leave those conclusions to the enthusiasts and stop embarrassing yourself.

[mrgreenthump]

3) 5950X/5900X is going to take the crown as the ultimate CPU, but that's a very niche market already.

Niche compared to 5600 and maybe 5600x. But the market has changed from what it was. $500> GPUs sell like hotcakes, 10900K sold a lot, Mindfactory alone sold 25150 3900Xs, granted those with 3900X probably shouldn't upgrade, but my point is that there is a market for these CPUs and it's not small considering they are way higher profit margin than an eventual 5600.. And apparently in some shops they already have over 20k orders for the 5900X. Given it's probably nothing compared to what the 5600 will sell when it comes out.

[Crushima]

I wonder if the questionable individual (to put it nicely) who writes the MMO champion recommended PC guide, will actually recommend the 5800/5900/5950 for the high end 'build of the month' lists, particularly the 'Narwhal and Unicorn'.

For the 10+ years I've been visiting these forums, the writer of build of the month list has had an apparent extreme bias towards Intel and Nvidia, even at times when AMD had competitive products, especially on performance per dollar.

It must break their hears to have to consider removing Intel completely from the listings! Don't get why, as they'll still get affiliate $$ from the URLS.

[Thunderball]

It's 19%.

Trusting company's PR is bad dude.

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Niche compared to 5600 and maybe 5600x. But the market has changed from what it was. $500> GPUs sell like hotcakes, 10900K sold a lot, Mindfactory alone sold 25150 3900Xs, granted those with 3900X probably shouldn't upgrade, but my point is that there is a market for these CPUs and it's not small considering they are way higher profit margin than an eventual 5600.. And apparently in some shops they already have over 20k orders for the 5900X. Given it's probably nothing compared to what the 5600 will sell when it comes out.

Definitely less niche than 10900K. It has the best gaming performance AND very good workstation performance that will be sufficient for most professional users.

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I wonder if the questionable individual (to put it nicely) who writes the MMO champion recommended PC guide, will actually recommend the 5800/5900/5950 for the high end 'build of the month' lists, particularly the 'Narwhal and Unicorn'.

For the 10+ years I've been visiting these forums, the writer of build of the month list has had an apparent extreme bias towards Intel and Nvidia, even at times when AMD had competitive products, especially on performance per dollar.

It must break their hears to have to consider removing Intel completely from the listings! Don't get why, as they'll still get affiliate $$ from the URLS.

Just skip over it. He apparently just doesnt research new components and is stuck in the Skylake days. I wouldnt recommend AMD GPUs in a build of the months though too.

[StillMcfuu]

Long story short: AMD caught up single thread. There are variances from game to game but nothing to really consider unless you specifically only play one game and want every ounce of performance.

[Thunderball]

Long story short: AMD caught up single thread. There are variances from game to game but nothing to really consider unless you specifically only play one game and want every ounce of performance.

They still didnt catch up in memory performance so the lows are suffering across a lot of games. The IPC lead is over 20% at this point though (they already had an IPC lead with Ryzen 3000) but now frequency also caught up in a major way.

[Crushima]

I wouldnt recommend AMD GPUs in a build of the months though too.

Then your either an Nvidia fanboy, or just plain dumb. AMD have had several competitive GPU's over the last 10 years at various price points. While the top performance bracket 'Narwhal and Unicorn' certainly would have had a Nvidia GPU since the 7970 Ghz edition days, the mid range and budget builds should have had many AMD cards over the years.

It's kind of ironic. You mock the maintainer of the 'build of the month' series for being stuck in Skylake days, while you are clearly stuck in the Maxwell/Pascal glory days.

[StillMcfuu]

They still didnt catch up in memory performance so the lows are suffering across a lot of games. The IPC lead is over 20% at this point though (they already had an IPC lead with Ryzen 3000) but now frequency also caught up in a major way.

Its not full parity, but its close enough that the saying of the past "Intel for gaming" isn't really valid anymore.
Buy what you want and we all win is really how it's going.

[Thunderball]

Then your either an Nvidia fanboy, or just plain dumb. AMD have had several competitive GPU's over the last 10 years at various price points. While the top performance bracket 'Narwhal and Unicorn' certainly would have had a Nvidia GPU since the 7970 Ghz edition days, the mid range and budget builds should have had many AMD cards over the years.

It's kind of ironic. You mock the maintainer of the 'build of the month' series for being stuck in Skylake days, while you are clearly stuck in the Maxwell/Pascal glory days.

Their hardware has been great at times, but drivers has been consistently bad. And most average users are not equipped to deal with those issues themselves.

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Its not full parity, but its close enough that the saying of the past "Intel for gaming" isn't really valid anymore.
Buy what you want and we all win is really how it's going.

Yea, Intel for gaming is not a thing anymore, at least until Rocket Lake.

[Tommi]

Their hardware has been great at times, but drivers has been consistently bad. And most average users are not equipped to deal with those issues themselves.

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Yea, Intel for gaming is not a thing anymore, at least until Rocket Lake.

Eh, I wouldn't say that. Yes, AMD may have taken the lead a bit, but it's not as if it's "LOL INTEL DEAD"

Using exact same settings.

8700K



5900X

[Thunderball]

Eh, I wouldn't say that. Yes, AMD may have taken the lead a bit, but it's not as if it's "LOL INTEL DEAD"

Sorry, but Intel is irrelevant until Rocket Lake at least. AMD's $300 CPU crushes Intel's $300 CPU. Plus AMD motherboards are cheaper. I have no clue what you're showing here, all the benchmarks released are pretty conclusive and yield very similar results.

Btw I havent run an AMD CPU for my main system since Athlon 64, but if I was building now I wouldnt consider Intel.

[Tommi]

Sorry, but Intel is irrelevant until Rocket Lake at least. AMD's $300 CPU crushes Intel's $300 CPU. Plus AMD motherboards are cheaper. I have no clue what you're showing here, all the benchmarks released are pretty conclusive and yield very similar results.

Btw I havent run an AMD CPU for my main system since Athlon 64, but if I was building now I wouldnt consider Intel.

Depends on the mobo really. I'm using MSI X570 Tomashawk which was £200.

As for your statent on crushing, it's highly depending what you are doing. Most gamers don't stream nor render videos. I've generally always used Intel for my main systems, but I do agree AMD are doing super well now. But saying Intel are irrelevent is just silly.

[Temp name]

According to a GN content piece, Zen3 prefers more RAM in addition to fast RAM: https://youtu.be/-UkGu6A-6sQ
In their tests, a 4x8 3200C14 kit performs better than a 2x8 3200C14 kit. Same with a 4x8 3600C16 v 2x8 3600C16 and 4x8 3800c18 v 2x8 3800c18. This is despite the tests not needing the extra RAM.
Depending on the title it's a 5%+ difference, or barely noticeable, to just double up on memory.

In the pinned comment they say that 2x16 might be the sweet spot, but we'll have to wait and see for that, since it wasn't included in the testing.

At the cost of literally doubling your memory though, it might not be worth getting that performance bump, but it's worth considering

[Thunderball]

According to a GN content piece, Zen3 prefers more RAM in addition to fast RAM: https://youtu.be/-UkGu6A-6sQ
In their tests, a 4x8 3200C14 kit performs better than a 2x8 3200C14 kit. Same with a 4x8 3600C16 v 2x8 3600C16 and 4x8 3800c18 v 2x8 3800c18. This is despite the tests not needing the extra RAM.
Depending on the title it's a 5%+ difference, or barely noticeable, to just double up on memory.

In the pinned comment they say that 2x16 might be the sweet spot, but we'll have to wait and see for that, since it wasn't included in the testing.

At the cost of literally doubling your memory though, it might not be worth getting that performance bump, but it's worth considering

I bet this heavily depends on the motherboard layout and memory module layout. Found it kind of weird that they're testing with such low speeds and 4x8 kit.

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Depends on the mobo really. I'm using MSI X570 Tomashawk which was £200.

As for your statent on crushing, it's highly depending what you are doing. Most gamers don't stream nor render videos. I've generally always used Intel for my main systems, but I do agree AMD are doing super well now. But saying Intel are irrelevent is just silly.

Intel is irrelevant right now. They dont have a single position where they're in a lead. 10900K is in the lead in average FPS in very few titles and in frametimes in slightly more titles but overall it's not even close, especially considering the fact that a $300 CPU would give a $500 CPU a run for it's money.

In production in general AMD has been leading in price/performance since Ryzen 1000. They're in lead in absolute performance aswell since Ryzen 3000. Intel still had a footing in applications that relied mostly on single core performance, but now it's gone too.

X570 is by definition a high end motherboard. The only advantage that chipset ever had was I/O.

[Temp name]

I bet this heavily depends on the motherboard layout and memory module layout. Found it kind of weird that they're testing with such low speeds and 4x8 kit.

Steve goes over why, but basically it's to ensure compatibility with all their test setups, even HEDT, with the same memory setup. The same setup works on any Intel platform, and on anything from Zen 1 to Zen 3 and Threadripper without changing the RAM at all, which might affect their results.
Also according to the video, their 3200C14 out performs 3600C16 and 3800C18 on like half the tests they did

[mrgreenthump]

According to a GN content piece, Zen3 prefers more RAM in addition to fast RAM: https://youtu.be/-UkGu6A-6sQ
In their tests, a 4x8 3200C14 kit performs better than a 2x8 3200C14 kit. Same with a 4x8 3600C16 v 2x8 3600C16 and 4x8 3800c18 v 2x8 3800c18. This is despite the tests not needing the extra RAM.
Depending on the title it's a 5%+ difference, or barely noticeable, to just double up on memory.

In the pinned comment they say that 2x16 might be the sweet spot, but we'll have to wait and see for that, since it wasn't included in the testing.

At the cost of literally doubling your memory though, it might not be worth getting that performance bump, but it's worth considering

It's something that's been known to happen even on Intel. Going from 2x8 single rank to 4x8 single rank, makes your setup effectively a dual rank setup as you only got 2 memory channels, hence 2x8 on each memory channel. As to why it's working like this, it's a bit of an open question. But in general going 2x16 dual rank has been the go to for memory performance. Granted on Intel that hasn't translated to much gaming performance.. On Zen it does apparently.

[Erous]

Anyone understand why there's no benchmarks including the 9900k? If there are any, would you mind sharing? I've been on the fence going in with Zen 3 and the numbers are promising when comparing to the 10900, but I'm running my 9900k @ 5g so I'm trying to determine if it's worth it.

[Temp name]

Anyone understand why there's no benchmarks including the 9900k? If there are any, would you mind sharing? I've been on the fence going in with Zen 3 and the numbers are promising when comparing to the 10900, but I'm running my 9900k @ 5g so I'm trying to determine if it's worth it.

A 9900k is just a 10700k, so if that's on the benchmarks then you have a result.

But if it's worth it for you depends on how much you value 5-10% fps gain (assuming you have a GPU strong enough for it)

[Thunderball]

Steve goes over why, but basically it's to ensure compatibility with all their test setups, even HEDT, with the same memory setup. The same setup works on any Intel platform, and on anything from Zen 1 to Zen 3 and Threadripper without changing the RAM at all, which might affect their results.
Also according to the video, their 3200C14 out performs 3600C16 and 3800C18 on like half the tests they did

It all depends on a lot of shit, again. Judging by the timing they most likely have an early B-die kit, so I'm not suprised it's beating 3600C14 and others. This kit could probably run 3600C14 or 4000C15, in 2x4 tho. Also, isnt Threadripper 6 channel anyway so kinda pointless?