Shadowlands Pathfinder not to include rep

[Frinata]

The team has also moved away from reputation being required to unlock flying. They want to have flying earned, likely in the next major content patch after launch, by completing the covenant campaign.

So! Good news amongst good news in the sets of interviews that are on the front page! Pathfinder is being divorced from Reputation, much like alot of other content that was gated by reputation.

According to the interview quote above, it'll be unlocked via covenant campaign. The only way that I see it possibly being rep gated, is if they rep gate the Covenant Campaigns, but I've not been in the Beta, but I've not heard anything of the sort.

I for one, am glad for this. Reputation should primarily be for cosmetic stuff, I feel, such as tabards, toys, and mounts. Gating other things like flying, quests, and Allied Races behind them was frustrating, more so when they elongated this process even further by halving all the reputation you get as well.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Nice! Wow. Huge move forward.

[MrLachyG]

I also like that it’s being made available a lot earlier than normal. So we will have flying by probably March next year (roughly).

[doodle90]

In b4 the final covenant quest requires renown 40 and exalted.

[Pawpurr]

So, this is double speak.

Covenants are just "super reputations" that have many levels beyond exalted, but progressing through each level bar is fast. This is called Renown. The covenant campaign is gated by levels of renown. Meaning, you have to have kept up with your weekly chores in order to unlock it.

The weekly chores are much lighter than BFA, Pathfinder is account wide so that's not really an issue. I think it will be easier. You're still going to grind your weekly chore to raise your level with your chosen group. It's just that instead taking a whole patch to grind thru single levels like revered and exalted, maybe getting 10% of the bar in a week, you grind your way through 10x as many levels and see yourself "level up" each week, which sometimes unlocks a covenant story chapter.

I just want to point out the silly talking point that they aren't "reputation gated" when they are literally gated behind your covenant's campaign and renown level, which is just a more complex version of reputation.

[MrLachyG]

In b4 the final covenant quest requires renown 40 and exalted.

dunno about exalted but it currently requires renown 22. which apparently takes 7 weeks to hit. so you should probably be exalted by that point anyway

[Lora]

i mean its not like the first pathfinder matters anyway since its not the one that will give flying. we wont have flying until mid xpac.

[SirCowdog]

So, this is double speak.

Covenants are just "super reputations" that have many levels beyond exalted, but progressing through each level bar is fast. This is called Renown. The covenant campaign is gated by levels of renown. Meaning, you have to have kept up with your weekly chores in order to unlock it.

The weekly chores are much lighter than BFA, Pathfinder is account wide so that's not really an issue. I think it will be easier. You're still going to grind your weekly chore to raise your level with your chosen group. It's just that instead taking a whole patch to grind thru single levels like revered and exalted, maybe getting 10% of the bar in a week, you grind your way through 10x as many levels and see yourself "level up" each week, which sometimes unlocks a covenant story chapter.

I just want to point out the silly talking point that they aren't "reputation gated" when they are literally gated behind your covenant's campaign and renown level, which is just a more complex version of reputation.

I'm glad someone else pointed it out. This is basically not changing at all. You still won't get Flying until an arbitrary patch some unknown time in the future. You still have to do a grind(Renown instead of Rep...wooo...feel the excitement....) which literally doesn't even make any difference for flight until that patch goes live.

If people think this is a better version of Pathfinder? Man...I don't know how else to say it, but: They're stupid. It's literally the same thing with a different coat of paint.

Let's talk about actual changes. Is this completable before 9.1? That would be significant.

[Tesshin83]

I am a bit disappointed. Since flying is bad for the game it should be only available to people who absolutely are extremely bothered by not being able to fly.

It should be unlocked behind either cutting edge, very high pvp rating or many +20 keys, 3000 battle pets, loremaster or the combination of all of them.

We should rather get access to faster transportation over the expansion.

[Lucetia]

Don't forget Pathfinder will require Renown which is in a way similar to reputation. The only difference is you don't need exalted with all factions.

You still won't get Flying until an arbitrary patch some unknown time in the future.

Let's talk about actual changes. Is this completable before 9.1? That would be significant.

They mentioned flying will be available the first major patch so 9.1. So I would assume you would be able to complete Part I (or Pathfinder if there is no Part II) before 9.1.

[WowIsDead64]

I'm glad someone else pointed it out. This is basically not changing at all. You still won't get Flying until an arbitrary patch some unknown time in the future. You still have to do a grind(Renown instead of Rep...wooo...feel the excitement....) which literally doesn't even make any difference for flight until that patch goes live.

If people think this is a better version of Pathfinder? Man...I don't know how else to say it, but: They're stupid. It's literally the same thing with a different coat of paint.

Let's talk about actual changes. Is this completable before 9.1? That would be significant.

Currently it sounds better. Because Ion have said about "first major content patch" and, as I know, Renown has catch up mechanism. No? But we all know Blizzard. There is always some pitfall. For example amnesia will make Ion forget about what he has said, "major content patch" will be released after a year or flying will be removed forever again in patch 9.2 within month after 9.1, as it was done in Legion, or something else, making it completely useless.

Overall I won't buy SL anyway. Even when flying is enabled. Flying/no flying itself - isn't problem. Content design - is. 8.2-8.3 content was bad even with flying. Therefore I won't return, till I won't see guaranteed content improvements.

[MrLachyG]

I'm glad someone else pointed it out. This is basically not changing at all. You still won't get Flying until an arbitrary patch some unknown time in the future. You still have to do a grind(Renown instead of Rep...wooo...feel the excitement....) which literally doesn't even make any difference for flight until that patch goes live.

If people think this is a better version of Pathfinder? Man...I don't know how else to say it, but: They're stupid. It's literally the same thing with a different coat of paint.

Let's talk about actual changes. Is this completable before 9.1? That would be significant.

ok so I did a bit of digging around this. in BfA there was a 4 month 1 week gap between expansion launch and 8.1 - so basically 17 weeks. according to the wowhead guide, it takes 16 weeks to get to Renown level 40. so if they keep to a similar timeline then we will be at max renown by the time 9.1 comes out. question is: will they increase the renown cap so people don't get flying immediately when 9.1 hits

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

I'm glad someone else pointed it out. This is basically not changing at all. You still won't get Flying until an arbitrary patch some unknown time in the future. You still have to do a grind(Renown instead of Rep...wooo...feel the excitement....) which literally doesn't even make any difference for flight until that patch goes live.

If people think this is a better version of Pathfinder? Man...I don't know how else to say it, but: They're stupid. It's literally the same thing with a different coat of paint.

Let's talk about actual changes. Is this completable before 9.1? That would be significant.

Lets see, it'll take 4 months to get the requirements for flying in Shadowlands. Lets compare that with past expansions with pathfinding.
WoD: 10 1/2 months.
Legion: around 9 months
BfA: roughly 1 year
Now could you explain to me how they are stupid? Little reminder that for people that fall behind in playing or start late they have catch-up mechanics for earning Renown.

[TheLucky1]

I'm glad someone else pointed it out. This is basically not changing at all. You still won't get Flying until an arbitrary patch some unknown time in the future. You still have to do a grind(Renown instead of Rep...wooo...feel the excitement....) which literally doesn't even make any difference for flight until that patch goes live.

If people think this is a better version of Pathfinder? Man...I don't know how else to say it, but: They're stupid. It's literally the same thing with a different coat of paint.

Let's talk about actual changes. Is this completable before 9.1? That would be significant.

And as with all pathfinders before it's not a problem if you actually play the game, just faster.

[SirCowdog]

Lets see, it'll take 4 months to get the requirements for flying in Shadowlands. Lets compare that with past expansions with pathfinding.
WoD: 10 1/2 months.
Legion: around 9 months
BfA: roughly 1 year
Now could you explain to me how they are stupid? Little reminder that for people that fall behind in playing or start late they have catch-up mechanics for earning Renown.

As usual, we have no idea when the first major patch will drop, nor what the pathfinder requirements in that patch will be.

I'm sorry, but nothing Blizzard has shown in the past earns them ANY scrap of the benefit of the doubt. What happens if the first major content patch pulls a "This is Argus" and releases a fat no-fly zone instead of a Nazjatar/Mechagon? Or the 9.1 simply doubles up the number of weeks of renown that we already did?

Optimism will not serve here.

[MrLachyG]

As usual, we have no idea when the first major patch will drop, nor what the pathfinder requirements in that patch will be.

I'm sorry, but nothing Blizzard has shown in the past earns them ANY scrap of the benefit of the doubt. What happens if the first major content patch pulls a "This is Argus" and releases a fat no-fly zone instead of a Nazjatar/Mechagon? Or the 9.1 simply doubles up the number of weeks of renown that we already did?

Optimism will not serve here.

the past 4 expansions say otherwise. MoP had a 2 month gap between release and 5.1, WoD was 4 months 2 weeks, Legion was just under 2 months and BfA was 4 months 1 week. so estimating it at about 4 months is a solid guess. 4 months is also the exact timeframe it will take us to hit Renown 40, which is the max. and yeah they might increase it (probably will) but only the most cynical mind would suggest they would double it. I imagine they might increase it to 50 so that people don't just log in and immediately have flying but there's no way they are going to double it. also I doubt that we will get a new zone with 9.1

[Squigglyo]

Step 1. Create Renown
Step 2. Make it function like rep, but with a different name
Step 3. Remove rep from Pathfinder
Step 4. Create quest chain requiring Renown to essentially the level of an Exalted rep
Step 5. Add Quest Chain to Pathfinder

Step 6. Profit!

[StillMcfuu]

So! Good news amongst good news in the sets of interviews that are on the front page! Pathfinder is being divorced from Reputation, much like alot of other content that was gated by reputation.

According to the interview quote above, it'll be unlocked via covenant campaign. The only way that I see it possibly being rep gated, is if they rep gate the Covenant Campaigns, but I've not been in the Beta, but I've not heard anything of the sort.

I for one, am glad for this. Reputation should primarily be for cosmetic stuff, I feel, such as tabards, toys, and mounts. Gating other things like flying, quests, and Allied Races behind them was frustrating, more so when they elongated this process even further by halving all the reputation you get as well.

Even if they rep gate the covenant campaign, its only one rep, vs the old requirement of all the damn reps. Plus its coming with 9.1 which is huge. Waiting on 9.2 is such a fucking downer, its way too much time.

[Dhrizzle]

Well I'm cancelling my recurring subscription, if it's gonna be crappy content balanced around flying after 4 months I'd rather pay on a month by month basis if and when I feel like playing.

[Eurhetemec]

So, this is double speak.

Covenants are just "super reputations" that have many levels beyond exalted, but progressing through each level bar is fast. This is called Renown. The covenant campaign is gated by levels of renown. Meaning, you have to have kept up with your weekly chores in order to unlock it.

The weekly chores are much lighter than BFA, Pathfinder is account wide so that's not really an issue. I think it will be easier. You're still going to grind your weekly chore to raise your level with your chosen group. It's just that instead taking a whole patch to grind thru single levels like revered and exalted, maybe getting 10% of the bar in a week, you grind your way through 10x as many levels and see yourself "level up" each week, which sometimes unlocks a covenant story chapter.

I just want to point out the silly talking point that they aren't "reputation gated" when they are literally gated behind your covenant's campaign and renown level, which is just a more complex version of reputation.

Pawpuur, this is pretty disingenous. I know you're trying to help but...

Renown doesn't work like a Reputation.

Reputations can be gained, at a more or less fixed rate. Generally speaking, they have no catch-up mechanisms. You say you have to "keep up with your weekly chores". That's not true. If you fall behind, there's a serious catch-up mechanism which pulls you back to where you should be pretty rapidly (according to Blizzard, and they've said so repeatedly). From the sound of it, you don't even have to particularly grind much to catch up even. And that you even can grind is a HUGE change, because you haven't been able to grind reps properly for a very long time.

Call it a "super-reputation" is just confusing and misleading. It isn't. And more importantly, there's only one of it. If that's what they're going off of, it's going to be drastically more straightforward to get flying this time around. I imagine it'll be the usual combination of that and a few achievements, but either way, as you say, it's likely to be easier - I suspect a lot easier and particularly more certain. In BfA, if you fell behind on reps, you had to pray to the RNG gods that the right Emissaries came up, and usually they didn't.

I'm glad someone else pointed it out. This is basically not changing at all. You still won't get Flying until an arbitrary patch some unknown time in the future. You still have to do a grind(Renown instead of Rep...wooo...feel the excitement....) which literally doesn't even make any difference for flight until that patch goes live.

If people think this is a better version of Pathfinder? Man...I don't know how else to say it, but: They're stupid. It's literally the same thing with a different coat of paint.

Let's talk about actual changes. Is this completable before 9.1? That would be significant.

Dude, this is sad.

You're both rude and wrong. That's not a good look. This is absolutely a better version of Pathfinder for the vast majority of players. Whether it is for you, I cannot say, but for someone like me? This is a demonstrable, objective improvement. Not like an "opinion". Reps were the problem for me and particularly with the slightly more-casual players I play with, with the Pathfinder system. If you took the reps out, and just made it Achievement based and maybe based on one specific Rep, most of them would have achieved it in a reasonable timeframe, and what's more, they could have planned out how to achieve it. BfA's basing it on a bunch of reps, and forcing people to do them ALL and relying on Emissaries to get there (or incredibly slow day-on-day World Questing, which was just depressing) was awful.

I get that you have specific desires and I respect that you'd like those to be met, but this is a genuine improvement and it doesn't help anyone, including you, to call people who are clear about that "stupid". They aren't. They just have different needs/desires from you. They play differently from you.