Shadowlands: Rapidly Climbing the Ladder in Popularity

[Eapoe]

Mature, really.

What? It was funny.

[dacoolist]

Sadly the games only been out for a few weeks - When the games been out for a few MONTHS, we will need to pull this back up.

So far it LOOKS like its better than bfa, but BFA being bad.. is what made classic such a success - It's just like this last US election: people weren't happy and dancing in the street because Biden won, they were dancing in the street because Trump lost..

Now that SLs is in full run, give this at least another 1.25 months and then revisit to see what everyone thinks about it.. until then it's just not possible to say the expansion is really great until people get to actually do stuff and see what all of the end game has to offer

[kamuimac]

I can only speak for myself, but so far, this expansion is on par to be my new favorite. It has already knocked TBC out of 2nd place and is heavily breathing down the neck of WotLK for first. I came into this game Jan 19, 2006, and after Cataclysm, have just not been impressed with the DLCs that followed. Granted, that is just my personal, subjective opinion. I am speaking for no one but myself, nor am I claiming my opinion to be imperical data on the state of the other DLCs.

Is anyone else either seeing Shadowlands move into their number one spot, or at least rapidly climbing the ranks? I know we still have a ways to go in this expac, but if 9.1 and 9.2 are anything like the launch, I have no doubt this expac will apologize for the last 4 in my book and become the new number one on my list.

well congratulations ?

for many more then you alike its expansion much worse then WoD

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Sadly the games only been out for a few weeks - When the games been out for a few MONTHS, we will need to pull this back up.

So far it LOOKS like its better than bfa, but BFA being bad.. is what made classic such a success - It's just like this last US election: people weren't happy and dancing in the street because Biden won, they were dancing in the street because Trump lost..

Now that SLs is in full run, give this at least another 1.25 months and then revisit to see what everyone thinks about it.. until then it's just not possible to say the expansion is really great until people get to actually do stuff and see what all of the end game has to offer

in BfA there was at least a point to play game - atm its pointless as it doesnt drop any gear and people have no way to progress their toons - for mmorpg its a game killer

[ashblond]

Simply not true. It broke sales records and had people excited to move out of BfA. Have you checked the quarterly reports recently? Because nothing you say is supported.

And yes, BfA was heavily panned during the 1st month. I remember that too.

I am Blizzard shareholder, I know how its quarterly report and share prices goes. And I know exactly what I am talking about.

The sales record of SL doesn't mean anything. It is a result of long beta exposure and today's over-developed streaming culture, plus players' extreme fatigue with BFA especially 1 year long 8.3.

WoW's sub peak was at early Cataclysme, which surpassed WLK, MoP or Legion by far. It doesn't mean Cata were necessarily the best or most popular expansion.

Players buying SL =/= Players loving SL =/= SL is a good expansion.

And what exactly were people hyped about SL before launch?

- Covenants? Most people didn't know what they were and streamers were more concerned about the balance issue.
- Torghast? maybe, but it is not as promising as hyped so far.
- Lore? Nobody knew much about SL or Jailer. It was not as well-knows as BFA's kultiran/zandalar, Azshara, Old god element
- New race/Class? there is none.

There really wasn't anything concrete to be hyped about SL, except people were tired of BFA.

"BFA was heavily panned" was simply not true. Players loved Jaina questline, praised how awesome drustvar was as a quest zone, how amazing the freehold, wcm dungeons are, how good the boralus city was. etc.

The only criticize back then was azerite armor and you need necklace level to unlock the traits. Nobody criticized the content itself, just like every expansion in its first month, because everything was "new".

SL solved part of the horrible, unnecessary, over-complicated sytems in BFA, but it is not enough.

I put my words here: Players will get bored of SL faster than ever.

[Xires]

I have yet to play shadowlands.
But based on the overabundance of lame sylvanas, the still not repaired classes and the lame jailer villain are enough to make sure shadowlands can't get in the top 4 of my fav wow expansions.

But that still makes it possible it could prove better than wod, bfa and cata.

I have yet to run into Sylvanas in Shadowlands. Lame Jailer villain? You're missing out. lol

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I am Blizzard shareholder, I know how its quarterly report and share prices goes. And I know exactly what I am talking about.

The sales record of SL doesn't mean anything. It is a result of long beta exposure and today's over-developed streaming culture, plus players' extreme fatigue with BFA especially 1 year long 8.3.

WoW's sub peak was at early Cataclysme, which surpassed WLK, MoP or Legion by far. It doesn't mean Cata were necessarily the best or most popular expansion.

Players buying SL =/= Players loving SL =/= SL is a good expansion.

And what exactly were people hyped about SL before launch?

- Covenants? Most people didn't know what they were and streamers were more concerned about the balance issue.
- Torghast? maybe, but it is not as promising as hyped so far.
- Lore? Nobody knew much about SL or Jailer. It was not as well-knows as BFA's kultiran/zandalar, Azshara, Old god element
- New race/Class? there is none.

There really wasn't anything concrete to be hyped about SL, except people were tired of BFA.

"BFA was heavily panned" was simply not true. Players loved Jaina questline, praised how awesome drustvar was as a quest zone, how amazing the freehold, wcm dungeons are, how good the boralus city was. etc.

The only criticize back then was azerite armor and you need necklace level to unlock the traits. Nobody criticized the content itself, just like every expansion in its first month, because everything was "new".

SL solved part of the horrible, unnecessary, over-complicated sytems in BFA, but it is not enough.

I put my words here: Players will get bored of SL faster than ever.

Are you trying to defend Bfa? Right now this time during the BFA xpac...I was bored with nothing to do but a mindless and boring AP grind and those stupid turtle quests. I am having much more fun in SL's and their is plenty that I can do without having to do it either.
Their is a LOT about SL's that is so much better then Bfa. It wasn't just Bfa fatigue by any means.
It was people wanting something BETTER and more fun then bfa was.
Tuning will happen over the next week or so when the world first race is over. Bfa and other xpacs were no different in that regard.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I am Blizzard shareholder, I know how its quarterly report and share prices goes. And I know exactly what I am talking about.

Sure buddy, sure. In direct contrast to info given by those with actual insight.

I remember just fine how BfA was received in its first month, despite how I felt about it myself. As for the rest, nonsense at best, dishonest at worst.

[ashblond]

Are you trying to defend Bfa? Right now this time during the BFA xpac...I was bored with nothing to do but a mindless and boring AP grind and those stupid turtle quests. I am having much more fun in SL's and their is plenty that I can do without having to do it either.

This is just ridiculous claim.

What exactly that "plenty" you can do that you didn't have in BFA?
- M+? raid? PvP? They are exactly the same as BFA
- You were tired of turtle/BFA world quests, but Ok with "plenty" of SL world quests? They are exactly the same.
- You are bored with AP farming in BFA, but Ok with weekly farming Torghast for ash and anima for weekly quest?

They are exactly the same thing, just under different names. And suddenly one is much BETTER than another?

Nobody is defending BFA, it had big problem and major flaws in systems. But these players have unrealistic expectation of SL, and claim SL has much more things and content to do than BFA, when they are essentially the same. It is just ridiculous.

[Sluvs]

I think this expansion will age well, but as with all the other expansions before it (after cata) the players will get bored and be back for the patches. That is how it has always has been, I do think the foundation is solid.

[ashblond]

Sure buddy, sure. In direct contrast to info given by those with actual insight.

I remember just fine how BfA was received in its first month, despite how I felt about it myself. As for the rest, nonsense at best, dishonest at worst.

It is pointless to make claims without analysis.

[Sluvs]

This is just ridiculous claim.

What exactly that "plenty" you can do that you didn't have in BFA?
- M+? raid? PvP? They are exactly the same as BFA
- You were tired of turtle/BFA world quests, but Ok with "plenty" of SL world quests? They are exactly the same.
- You are bored with AP farming in BFA, but Ok with weekly farming Torghast for ash and anima for weekly quest?

They are exactly the same thing, just under different names. And suddenly one is much BETTER than another?

Nobody is defending BFA, it had big problem and major flaws in systems. But these players have unrealistic expectation of SL, and claim SL has much more things and content to do than BFA, when they are essentially the same. It is just ridiculous.

this is dishonest.

-PvP is better now. And raid progression and m+ progression is way better now, And I could Argue that even the dungeons are better designes, with the exception of plaguefall.
-World quests are almost 100% optional. And so are callings at this point.
-AP grind was unlimited, weekly torghast farming does not take even 1h30 min, and its only the only farming that you do since anima is completely optional, and if you play normally you will get 1000 through the week, and even if you dont, you can catch up the week after.

The game is radically different. That is 100% clear.

[Vrinara]

How long till people turn on it?

.. Jokes aside. I do love the story and the zones of SL. Bastion reminds me of Greek Mythology for some reason. The zones are interesting and have kept me busy.. What hasn't been keeping me busy and the one thing I dislike about this expansion.. is Torghast. Already bored with it. I feel like people like SL so much because BFA was such a shit show. We will see if SL will keep peoples attention.

[ashblond]

this is dishonest.

-PvP is better now. And raid progression and m+ progression is way better now, And I could Argue that even the dungeons are better designes, with the exception of plaguefall.
-World quests are almost 100% optional. And so are callings at this point.
-AP grind was unlimited, weekly torghast farming does not take even 1h30 min, and its only the only farming that you do since anima is completely optional, and if you play normally you will get 1000 through the week, and even if you dont, you can catch up the week after.

The game is radically different. That is 100% clear.

- I am talking about the endgame forms are the same (M+/raid/pvp), not the design (which is debatable)

- BFA world quests are also 100% optional. Nobody forces you to do them. why do you think SL world quests are different than BFA???

- AP grind is unlimited, but also optional, just like anima. A lot of players don't do all the AP dailies, islands, etc. Even if you do weekly islands, it takes less than 1h30.

The principles are exactly the same. The double standard is puzzling.

[Th3Scourge]

This is just wrong.

BFA first month was highly praised.
- Players were happy with BFA zones and questline
- Players were excited with Kultiran and Zandalari lore and allied race
- Players were amazed by Boralus and Dazaralor city
- Players were hyped for warfront and islands
....

It didn't turn out very well.

SL had less hype and lower expection than BFA.

Players were "happy", "excited", "amazed" and "hyped" the week the expansion came out..... that's about as long as it lasted

Mate, stop watching asslickers like Taliesin and Evitel, the shine wore off the week that warfronts were released, people realised they were an afk-fest for free epics, that island expeditions were just an endless grind for AP, the story-telling was pure dogshit.

Basically every issue that was brought up in the beta came true and we were left with the steaming like of hot dog turd that was 8.0 BfA.

[ashblond]

Players were "happy", "excited", "amazed" and "hyped" the week the expansion came out..... that's about as long as it lasted

Mate, stop watching asslickers like Taliesin and Evitel, the shine wore off the week that warfronts were released, people realised they were an afk-fest for free epics, that island expeditions were just an endless grind for AP, the story-telling was pure dogshit.

Basically every issue that was brought up in the beta came true and we were left with the steaming like of hot dog turd that was 8.0 BfA.

I don't think you know my view here: BFA is crap, and SL is just the same as BFA.

What SL does better than BFA so far:
- Removal of some crazy systems of BFA
- Alt leveling and catch up

What SL does worse than BFA so far:
- Maw is probably the worst daily zone ever in wow
- Covenant power imbalance will be an expansion long issue

It is incomprehensible that some people criticize BFA so much but praises SL at the same time, when they are essentially the same.

[Saltysquidoon]

To me, it's just 'safe' (which at this point is what a wow expansion should be).

The story is a disaster but it has been since self-insert ser was allowed to make creative decisions, so no change on that front.
Dungeons... exist
The raid is good (the raid it always good)
There is more tmog/mounts/pets w/e
The classes honestly need more work then they get but it seems like most long term players want fewer changes (I honestly don't understand why) so it probably works on blizzards end.
Borrowed power has been nerfed to being almost ignorable (which is lame but a step up from obnoxious).
Gear is back to normal now titanforging was fired into the sun.
The only real 'letdown' is torghast being a nothing burger. Which I mean it was always a 'hello fellow children, I hear you like roguelikes these days' attempt to be relvent. And hey it's better than warfronts and expeditions.

I mean what's to expect from a wow expo at this point? The game is older than some players.

[Kel_Sceptic]

What SL does better than BFA so far:
- Removal of some crazy systems of BFA
- Alt leveling and catch up
- PvP Vendors and PvP gearing system superior to any other system in the past
- renown gating is allowing us to finish the weekly choores on day 1 and play whatever content we like in this game
- anima power = mostly cosmetic stuff
- NO artifact/azerite infinite grinding system

It is incomprehensible that some people criticize BFA so much but praises SL at the same time, when they are essentially the same.

If you are seeing them the same, then you are probably feed up with WoW, since wow means raiding, dungeons, pvp arena, pvp bg, pet battles, that's about it.
Dunno what you expect from the 9th expansions, when all other had the same type of content.

Dota 2 is pretty much the same game since 2013 and the same base since DotA Allstars was created in 2003.
Counter-Strike is the same since 1998 when the first beta mode was out.


People like playing repetitive stuff that may have different outcome, they come online, they queue, the play, win or lose, they shutdown the PC and go to sleep.

What people don't like, it to have a second job in game just to be able to queue, the play, win or lose.

SL gives me TBC/WotLK/MoP/WoD vibes, when I was logging in, doing my daily quests for like 30-60mins, then doing whatever I wanted to do in game. For the first time in the last 4 years I really had a reason/motivation to do BGs, since Honor finally means something in game.


Legion and BFA had an awful psychological impact over players with the infinite grinding artifact power posibility, and blizzard acknowleded that and addressed it.


There is definitely no way you can say Legion/BFA are the same with SL. But, again, if you are saying that, then you clearly need to get a new game

[kaminaris]

What SL does better than BFA so far:
- Removal of some crazy systems of BFA
- Alt leveling and catch up
- PvP Vendors and PvP gearing system superior to any other system in the past
- renown gating is allowing us to finish the weekly choores on day 1 and play whatever content we like in this game
- anima power = mostly cosmetic stuff
- NO artifact/azerite infinite grinding system

- What crazy systems? BfA didn't have much "systems", maybe you could count azerite as system but that was fukken simple configurable tier set.
- So far alt is only easier for leveling but not for catch up. God I can't even begin to think about alts, because you know, gear... good luck with that.
- PvP vendors cool but PvE is fucked
- Renown is AP, you didn't have to finish neck levels, could go with any pace you wanted.
- No wonder, because anima = resources. Those were mostly cosmetic and shit
- AP wasn't infinite in BfA, it only got infinite in 8.3. It was hard capped. The same way and on the same level (50) is renown right now (50), and that cap is going to be upped in next patch like in BfA.

[ashblond]

- anima power = mostly cosmetic stuff
- NO artifact/azerite infinite grinding system

Legion and BFA had an awful psychological impact over players with the infinite grinding artifact power posibility, and blizzard acknowleded that and addressed it.


There is definitely no way you can say Legion/BFA are the same with SL. But, again, if you are saying that, then you clearly need to get a new game

- AP grinding is unlimited, but it is also optional. Nobody forces you to grind it. In fact, most players don't do every AP daily quest or weekly islands and still leveled up HoA super fast. You can take AP easy just the same way as anima, except you didn't. Why would you grind infinitely after everything is unlocked???

- Anima = most cosmetic stuff is wrong. Anima is needed for weekly renown quest. renown rank unlocks more soulbinds and conduits, just like higher HoA rank unlocks more essence. They are directly affect character combat power.

And you only see what I mentioned SL did better than BFA, but not vice versa:
- War campagn in BFA is totally optional for alts, covenant campaign is not yet.
- weekly torghast grind is worse than weekly vision so far.

SL gives me TBC/WotLK/MoP/WoD vibes, when I was logging in, doing my daily quests for like 30-60mins, then doing whatever I wanted to do in game.

And you lost me here. Are you saying doing daily quests for 30-60 mins in SL everyday is very good?

BFA emissary quests takes 10-20 mins tops. And most of time i didn't do them at all, unless it is a gear upgrade. Just like i don't do world quests in SL at all unless upgrade.

[Kel_Sceptic]

- What crazy systems? BfA didn't have much "systems", maybe you could count azerite as system but that was fukken simple configurable tier set.

Well lets see, 1. azerite power; 2.azerite gear that was shit for months; 3.corruption ?!?!?!!?; 4. island expedition 5. warfronts 6. essences for alts ?

- So far alt is only easier for leveling but not for catch up. God I can't even begin to think about alts, because you know, gear... good luck with that.

But was the essences 4 weeks grind in different content you might not want to do, a cool catchup ?
I don't know what you are saying about gearing alts, we're like 1 month in the expansion and you want ... what, catchup gear ? Well you got that aswell, since WQ now give ilvl 174 items, while the highest PVP gear is 184.

- PvP vendors cool but PvE is fucked

I don't think you watched the 2v2 or 3v3 ladder to see what people are wearing, even tough the PvP gearing vendors are live. People have ilvl 200, 205 cause they gear from Mythic+, doing infinite runs. I have ilvl 187 cause this is where the PvP ilvl is right now. How is Pve fucked ?

- Renown is AP, you didn't have to finish neck levels, could go with any pace you wanted.

Renown is gated for everyone in a matter that makes the game enjoyable, and removes that aspect of FOMO that infinite artifact/azerite power was impling.

- No wonder, because anima = resources. Those were mostly cosmetic and shit

Resources were needed to complete table mission so you can advance in the Campaing.

- AP wasn't infinite in BfA, it only got infinite in 8.3. It was hard capped. The same way and on the same level (50) is renown right now (50), and that cap is going to be upped in next patch like in BfA.

Dude, are you nuts, it had a HARD CAP MAXIMUM, but you could always earn artifact power, it had a bad psychological impact and, again, blizzard admited it in interviews, and said it is not a healthy system, it made people FOMO, it was affecting people, felt like an endless choore, like you are always behind.
While the 3 renown per week cap is doable in the first reset day and you are done with it till next week. All players are on the same page here.

- AP grinding is unlimited, but it is also optional. Nobody forces you to grind it. In fact, most players don't do every AP daily quest or weekly islands and still leveled up HoA super fast. You can take AP easy just the same way as anima, except you didn't. Why would you grind infinitely after everything is unlocked???

Hehe, see that is the thing, I've returned to BFA after 8.3, when we azerite power was indeed useless and forgoten. Played BFA the first 2 or 3 months then left for a full year (the only time I've left WoW for this long since playing from 2005) since it was Legion Artifact Power farming all over again, but at least legion had an interesting Artifact Weapon system that rewarded us in some kind of RPG way. BFA was shi7.

- Anima = most cosmetic stuff is wrong. Anima is needed for weekly renown quest. renown rank unlocks more soulbinds and conduits, just like higher HoA rank unlocks more essence. They are directly affect character combat power.

No mater what activity you do in game, you will gain 1000 anima every week. Buuuuut, if you want to get over it, it is doable in the first 2 hours of reset day (250anima from world boss + 250 anima from the Calling), 3-4 more WQ and you ARE DONE, you have 6 days of no need to thin

And you only see what I mentioned SL did better than BFA, but not vice versa:
- War campagn in BFA is totally optional for alts, covenant campaign is not yet.
- weekly torghast grind is worse than weekly vision so far.

War Campaing was a pool of artifact power, that you had to do for your alts, unless you wanted to stay with a low level neck.
weekly toghast grind; you are right, it is a fast easy grind that is not cool for people not liking that type of content.
But about alts, remember those essences that needed 3-4 weeks of grinding for every alt ? That untill march 2020 when the corruption system was in place and you could bought them for a currency gated behing weekly assaults.


Where shadowlands seem to succed now, is letting you play whatever content you want in the game. It doesn't force you to do pvp for an essences that is good in PVE for your spec/class. It doesn't force you to do assaults and dailys for currency needed to buy corruption and/or essences later on.
It doesn't make you feel you are missing out on gearing since the Greater Vault offers only 1 item per week, so you dont need to do both PvE and PvP just to get an extra piece of gear.
It doesn't make you feel you are falling behing because every body is on the same renown level.


At least, for me, this is what WoW feels, like beeing free to do what I want. And while I do understand some don't like torghast, well, some didn't like garrison aswel, or the naval shipyard, warfronts, island expeditions but we did it anyway, the difference is that compared to islands and warfronts, you can do torghast solo in your own terms.

[Ielenia]

in what universe could someone actualy unironicaly compare wod with tbc calling it tbc 2.0....wod had NOTHING outside of the usualy stuff like raiding and pvp,garrison was a joke not even needing mention,meanwile tbc was the most inovative expansion adding many new things and had a consistent content flow

There were actually some comparisons like that, with some people calling WoD "TBC 2.0" in the sense that we're "kinda-maybe-sorta" returning to Outland, only it was past Outland, and some other stuff.

But, of course, all of that happened before the expansion launched. WoD killed those comparisons pretty quickly after launch.