TW is a nightmare atm

[bledgor]

Did 10 TW dungeons yesterday, the only ones that required me to actually have a thought were the ICC ones, if you are wiping on any of the other ones, that isn't scaling/broken dungeons, that is you being bad.

[Okacz]

Define "hard". Loken was the most dangerous mob in the game in December 2008.

It's an exaggeration anyway. So what if at ICC you could reliably pull everything to a boss in HCs and cleave it down, it was the last tier and HCs were still tuned around people in leveling greens.

Early on, for the ilvl they were designed for, those dungeons were quite deadly. Loken is a good example of a fight that you just couldn't beat sometimes with shitty gear because the numbers didn't allow it. Oculus actually required some tactical thinking with vehicles, as they weren't very powerful at the beginning. Even Cyanigosa could be deadly.

Wrath dungeons are remembered to be super easy because they were overgeared extremly quickly. Badge gear was all over the place and easy to get, Vault and Sarthation were weekly loot pinatas with good gear (x2, since 10 and 25 versions were separate), Naxxramas was a joke for anyone who had enough time to stay in a group. Players got raiding quality gear very quickly and even a few weeks in, those dungeons started to feel like HC dungeons feel like in Shadowlands currently, or even easier.

[Lodreh]

...But lets make sure freaking pet battles work well because that is most relevant content!...

If it helps pet battles are broken as well... multi-hit abilities will not trigger if the first one is blocked... some bosses with 50% damage reduction have ability to shield for another 50% DR which gives 100% damage immunity for 3 out of every 4 rounds. All in all it's not a great time.

[Pratt]

Like I tried to explain a couple posts ago, Blizzard doesn't tune TW around player gear. It doesn't matter if your ilvl is 50 or 500000000000000000 because you're scaled to 35 in every slot. Only thing that matters is having special crap on your gear, like sockets, enchants, legendary effects that haven't been disabled like the MoP dps cloaks, and most importantly, all your traits and essences from Heart of Azeroth.

Wow I had no idea. Man I'm an idiot.

[Adramalech]

He wasn't hard. People just did not want to los nova/aura whatever was that thing and stood still.

"Hey I am doing long cast which will likely do a lot damage so you better move"
"i gotta deepz"


I actually loved him since it actually was boss where people had to move and in earlier stages at start stay grouped but I am weirdo because I like mechanics that involve whole group.

You're making things look easier than they were. Loken was barely harder than a Vanilla or TBC boss mechanically, but his unavoidable aura hit hard the more you were away from him, but you had to run away when he cast his Nova. That created moments where damage ramped up quite a bit while healers were still in a mix of dungeon blues and Naxx epics. Obviously as more people entered Naxx and cleared the place up and non raiders got more badge gear, he became irrelevant, but while gear was poor, heroic Loken was a real threat and got a bigger body count than most things up to that point.

- - - Updated - - -

It's an exaggeration anyway. So what if at ICC you could reliably pull everything to a boss in HCs and cleave it down, it was the last tier and HCs were still tuned around people in leveling greens.

Early on, for the ilvl they were designed for, those dungeons were quite deadly. Loken is a good example of a fight that you just couldn't beat sometimes with shitty gear because the numbers didn't allow it. Oculus actually required some tactical thinking with vehicles, as they weren't very powerful at the beginning. Even Cyanigosa could be deadly.

Wrath dungeons are remembered to be super easy because they were overgeared extremly quickly. Badge gear was all over the place and easy to get, Vault and Sarthation were weekly loot pinatas with good gear (x2, since 10 and 25 versions were separate), Naxxramas was a joke for anyone who had enough time to stay in a group. Players got raiding quality gear very quickly and even a few weeks in, those dungeons started to feel like HC dungeons feel like in Shadowlands currently, or even easier.

Also, to add to my previous post, this. Just... This.

[OrcsRLame]

Wow I had no idea. Man I'm an idiot.

You literally gain like 1.5k HP from equipping it just from all the 3% stamina passives. It's kinda nutty lol.

- - - Updated - - -

You're making things look easier than they were. Loken was barely harder than a Vanilla or TBC boss mechanically, but his unavoidable aura hit hard the more you were away from him, but you had to run away when he cast his Nova. That created moments where damage ramped up quite a bit while healers were still in a mix of dungeon blues and Naxx epics. Obviously as more people entered Naxx and cleared the place up and non raiders got more badge gear, he became irrelevant, but while gear was poor, heroic Loken was a real threat and got a bigger body count than most things up to that point.

This is very true. I'm sure I was just god awful at the game back then, but I do distinctly remember always bringing a hunter or shaman whenever Halls of Lightning was the daily heroic, just for the nature res aura/totem. It was a reasonably hard boss for its time.

[Lei]

You might want to try it as well.. OP Keeps boasting about itemlevel, when it's absolutely meaningless.. selective reading at it's finest!

"Keeps"? He has ONE post on that matter with someone else and the guy I quoted went:

you've had multiple people explain this to you, how the fuck are you still not getting it?

While the guy actually conversed with another guy who started this with:

Ulduar TW isn't tuned for 158 gear, it's tuned for ilvl 200 as that's what it drops...

So of course you're going have a harder time

The aggressive guy also actually aggressively called out this other guy as well:
(to meroko)

You have zero understanding of how Timewalking works

So you too, get back to start and re-read.

[Thokri]

You're making things look easier than they were. Loken was barely harder than a Vanilla or TBC boss mechanically, but his unavoidable aura hit hard the more you were away from him, but you had to run away when he cast his Nova. That created moments where damage ramped up quite a bit while healers were still in a mix of dungeon blues and Naxx epics. Obviously as more people entered Naxx and cleared the place up and non raiders got more badge gear, he became irrelevant, but while gear was poor, heroic Loken was a real threat and got a bigger body count than most things up to that point.

Big body count was because people tried to soak aoe and range did not group up.

People are idiots basicly.

Also bigger playbase accessing same "harder" stuff. Everyone and their mother were doing heroics. M+, not so much.

Now, those same players do not get in high keystone groups or even want to do them and lower difficulties you have to try to even wipe, outside maybe first day not knowing any mechanics and going there in last expansion gear.

Same thing would be now for example in de other side m+ grouping up and taking bomb in melee at ethreal or at mueh no one taking portals.

It is long time ago but I honestly do not remember loken being that bad as people paint him to be but as I said it was loong time ago in stage where you could consider him hard.
From my point I recall first boss in azjol was deadlier and at launch I think anub'arak did massive dmg to tanks or something (Or some other boss which then became trivial) but launch stuff is always launch stuff.

[ReVnX]

No, no they were not.

Wrath heroic dungeons were a cakewalk compared to the TBC and Cata ones.

[Lei]

It's an exaggeration anyway. So what if at ICC you could reliably pull everything to a boss in HCs and cleave it down, it was the last tier and HCs were still tuned around people in leveling greens.

Early on, for the ilvl they were designed for, those dungeons were quite deadly. Loken is a good example of a fight that you just couldn't beat sometimes with shitty gear because the numbers didn't allow it. Oculus actually required some tactical thinking with vehicles, as they weren't very powerful at the beginning. Even Cyanigosa could be deadly.

Wrath dungeons are remembered to be super easy because they were overgeared extremly quickly. Badge gear was all over the place and easy to get, Vault and Sarthation were weekly loot pinatas with good gear (x2, since 10 and 25 versions were separate), Naxxramas was a joke for anyone who had enough time to stay in a group. Players got raiding quality gear very quickly and even a few weeks in, those dungeons started to feel like HC dungeons feel like in Shadowlands currently, or even easier.

This. So much this. As a shaman, our HP actually got buffed in a patch in wrath and we simply couldn't survive loken in the "cheesy" way. Even with resistance buffs and fortitude and everything.
I remember melee dying to mobs in Halls of something, and at some other places as well. Oh, not to forget Ankahet with the caster trash bug guy Ahn'kahar Spell Flinger that took % of your hp Shadow Blast - just like trash in sunwell plateau -, not a specific amount of damage.
As a healer, there were fuckups even at the end of the expac.

[ellieg]

Quick question about ulduar.

Is it 200 ilvl drops? How long does it take to clear it?

[Tesshin83]

Stop complaining something is broken just because you cant shoehorn content into you diablo style of playing.

Everybody has cc abilities on their hotbars. Use them. Just did TW with people who know how to use them. Easy peasy.

[Segus1992]

No, no they were not.

What part? WotLK dungeons were literally intended to be far easier than TBC because of how hard it was for pugs to complete them. You literally speedran WotLK dungeons while they were still current content. The ICC dungeons were a step up, but still far below TBC (and cata pre-nerf).

Raids were super easy as well, until hardmodes started being introduced (and even then, it was the first time you had to actively seek challenge in raids, and it was easy if you didn't). WotLK launch content was laughably easy with the only exception being Sartharion with 3 drakes left alive.

[Breccia]

I seem to remember Ulduar being unforgiving at level. I don't want to imagine it with bad scaling.

[Acidbaron]

I seem to remember Ulduar being unforgiving at level. I don't want to imagine it with bad scaling.

The first boss is the hardest, fully cleared it including yogg with no hard modes with a group for the biggest part completely new to the place.

edit: And that is only because people don't know how to stack and maintain pyrite properly. I think there's also a bug though where the burning tar from choppers hit friendly units quite hard x)

[Mosotti]

He wasn't hard. People just did not want to los nova/aura whatever was that thing and stood still.

That's something you can say about anything... "man, it's not hard, people are just retarded". It was indeed hard for the start of the expansion, meaning most people had a really hard time with some of the dungeons in Wrath. Now you can either accept that as a definition of hard, or you can just say most people are so stupid, and you are so smart, that doesn't change anything. Don't even start me on Oculus, because it was a challenge to even get to the last boss in a pug, people were just getting lost way before that. And killing the last boss was like a miracle. In fact I remember I tried that dungeon years later while leveling alts and pretty much failed because people had no idea what to do...

The problem with Wrath dungeons was that they became really easy fast, but that only started the timed runs which eventually inspired Blizzard to make the whole dungeon arcade stuff, which is so popular today.

But Cata heroics were on another level. The rage and total failure in pugs at the start of the expansion were absolutely legendary, I've tried a few runs and gave up because it was just impossible to pug, unless maybe some planets and galaxies got a proper alignment.

[Broombot]

TBH the only dungeons remotely challenging seemed to be the ICC ones, and usually only because people don't remember mechanics and just get gibbed by avoidable shit they have no clue is there or how to avoid. The regular ol' dungeons seemed like cakewalks even for obviously clueless operators.

people like ^^^ are why forums are infuriating. my pally is 199 ilvl and I've been playing the toon for over a decade and was using cd's etc, the stuff was hitting extremely hard and I recall wotlk well. The last boss on Gundrak killed 2 dps so damn fast. the Nexus was okish, the old kingdom dungeon had adds hitting hard, only 'newer' icc dungeon i got was Pit and it went fine although frost stacks on first boss where up there and the gauntlet to the last boss killed some people. The scaling is messed up though, one guys personal opinion that it "wasn't remotely challenging" is obnoxious. The dungeons themselves aren't some super complex thing, but the mobs hit fucking hard.

[Onikaroshi]

The first boss is the hardest, fully cleared it including yogg with no hard modes with a group for the biggest part completely new to the place.

edit: And that is only because people don't know how to stack and maintain pyrite properly. I think there's also a bug though where the burning tar from choppers hit friendly units quite hard x)

When did you do it? Trying to judge if they hotfixed it, because when we did it yesterday it definitely wasn't right. Things that were supposed to be hitting for 700 dmg were hitting for over 2k (unavoidable aoe)

[Danuel]

Thank goodness, after a month TW will be irrelevant, and I can skip this trashy content.

[phattsao]

Wrath dungeons were never difficult, even in blues. The only exception was Halls of Reflection, which was added much later.

Occasionally you'd get a bunch of idiots that would screw up Pit of Saron or Occulus (WTF A DRAGON?!), but in general Wrath is where the "pull everything without stopping" dungeon mentality started.