Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[beanman12345]

A vote on an amendment, separate from a bill.

Politics is about balancing out wants and needs vs. things you're willing to compromise on. Those other Dems would have compromised on minimum wage if it was in the COVID bill. Manchin (and maybe Sinema) wouldn't have. Separating a key point out into an amendment is how you give a provision a chance to die.

It's almost entirely on those two.

And to suggest you look at the vote on an amendment where the main bill (COVID relief) can still pass is hilariously naive. Yeah, some Dems didn't want to vote for higher minimum wage, but would have swallowed that pill for COVID relief.

Yeah swallowed that pill, like manchin did for unemployment? oh wait.

No, it wasn't in the bill, cause 8 people weren't going to swallow that pill. We know, factually, that 8 people caused no $15, not 1, based on the amendment vote. Those 8 people, one of which is manchin, bombed the $15. But it's a collective whole, not just him.

It's like argueing Pennsylvania cost Trump the election. The math doesn't back that up either...

I get that it's easy to just blame manchin for no 15$, I'm pissed at manchin, it's not wrong to be pissed at Manchin for multiple reasons. But it is wrong to put all the blame on no $15 on him.

[Kallisto]

I dunno, i think a lot of this, X will never turn red/blue is a self fulfilling prophecy.

People who were saying Georgia will never go blue had not been watching Georgia over the past few elections. Every Election it has been drifting more purple and blue at a faster rate than Texas. 2016 it was one of the last states to actually call for Trump it had become close. West Virginia isn't that. It's a state that has been drifting red since longer than most of us have been alive. It's only gone blue during my lifetime for Bill Clinton and Dukakis. But since Bush has been going further and further red (Looking back it was very blue pre Ronnie).

Bush was getting 55%ish of the vote when he won it, Mitt was around 58%. Trump both times 68%, those are huge swings to red as the demographics push towards a more red vote base.

Trump in 2016 barely got above 50% of the vote in Georgia last time around. Romney 53% McCaine 52% (It's marginal differences), Bush 2nd term 58% Bush first 55%. As you can tell Georgia isn't as deep red as people believe and that long term it is moving closer to blue. Dole won this state in 1996 and Clinton in 1992. But we don't know what the Perot effect did to it. If it hurt Clinton or Bush more.

Plus Georgia has a larger minority voting base than W.Virginia meaning there's a likelihood of a bigger Democratic voting base down there without the swing voters.

[Milchshake]

Does somewhere like West Virginia have someone like Stacey Abrams actively out there working hard to get things to turn the way they want?

Dunno, Video Game Progressives are focused on the wrong boss fight.

Look, they've already tried to primary Manchin, and failed.
They tried running their candidate in a general against Caputo, and failed.
They dont have a strategy to win in red states.
They all cheered when Heitkamp and McCaskill lost their seats, with no plan to replace them.

Anyways, Ron Johnson (WI) and Pat Toomey (PA) are very gettable seats. Focusing on the Sun Belt seems like a good investment. Cal Cunningham had a shot at winning, if only he waited six months to cheat on his wife. Richard Burr, Tim Scott, and MArco Rubio should all be vulnerable now.

Take a lesson from 2020. Stop the dumb 30% Strategy of trashing the center of the party to the point of alienation.

Take a win, and call the American Rescue Plan, one of the most progressive enactments ever passed by the United States Congress. Frustrating as Manchin’s last-minute trimming was — and, apart from the $15 minimum wage that regrettably was well short of 50 votes, it didn’t alter the shape of the bill significantly. This is far beyond most optimistic projections just a few months ago. Let alone a year when people were calling Biden dead or missing.

Take credit and emphasize the really good parts. This what most adults do when they go for new or more work.

Though I'm starting to doubt the adulthood of Very Online People.

[Thepersona]

Dunno, Video Game Progressives are focused on the wrong boss fight.

Look, they've already tried to primary Manchin, and failed.
They tried running their candidate in a general against Caputo, and failed.
They dont have a strategy to win in red states.
They all cheered when Heitkamp and McCaskill lost their seats, with no plan to replace them.

Anyways, Ron Johnson (WI) and Pat Toomey (PA) are very gettable seats. Focusing on the Sun Belt seems like a good investment. Cal Cunningham had a shot at winning, if only he waited six months to cheat on his wife. Richard Burr, Tim Scott, and MArco Rubio should all be vulnerable now.

Take a lesson from 2020. Stop the dumb 30% Strategy of trashing the center of the party to the point of alienation.

Take a win, and call the American Rescue Plan, one of the most progressive enactments ever passed by the United States Congress. Frustrating as Manchin’s last-minute trimming was — and, apart from the $15 minimum wage that regrettably was well short of 50 votes, it didn’t alter the shape of the bill significantly. This is far beyond most optimistic projections just a few months ago. Let alone a year when people were calling Biden dead or missing.

Take credit and emphasize the really good parts. This what most adults do when they go for new or more work.

Though I'm starting to doubt the adulthood of Very Online People.

Yeah, focus on the wins, and on the fight ahead. If you take 2 more seats, Joe Manchin antics become irrelevant, and he loses all of his "deciding factor" power.

[D Luniz]

People never thought GA would go blue.

you forgot to add "so soon", no one doubted it would happen eventually, that's why people still put some effort into it compared to say, Texas.

difference is demographics

West Virginia over the last 30 years has barely changed. And I bet if you dig to see mobility into and out of the state, people arent going there to stay, grow old and die, they only stay there if they were born there, so there is nothing to cause a change of views

West Virginia Racial Breakdown of Population
Racial composition 1990[67] 2000[68] 2010[69] 2019[70]
White 96.2% 95.0% 93.9% 93.1%
Black 3.1% 3.2% 3.4% 3.7%
Asian 0.4% 0.5% 0.7% 0.8%
Native 0.1% 0.2% 0.2% 0.2%
Native Hawaiian and
other Pacific Islander – – – -
Other race 0.1% 0.2% 0.3% 0.4%
Two or more races – 0.9% 1.5% 1.8%


vs Georgia
has gotten even more diverse, and its been at a faster pace than the national average

Georgia's racial breakdown of population
Racial composition 1990[45] 2000[46] 2010[47]
White 71.0% 65.1% 59.7%
Black 27.0% 28.7% 30.5%
Asian 1.2% 2.1% 3.3%
Native 0.2% 0.3% 0.3%
Native Hawaiian and
other Pacific Islander — 0.1% 0.1%
Other race 0.6% 2.4% 4.0%
Two or more races — 1.4% 2.1%

I dunno, i think a lot of this, X will never turn red/blue is a self fulfilling prophecy.

its more WV wont change anytime in the next 20-30 years without something forcing that change, more political outreach wont change things there.

[Zan15]

The reduction in the bill will cost democrats. When you consider that under trump millions more would have gotten money and a higher amount and democrat infighting is has done the following:

t.

Well according to republicans in the senate it would have been 600 dollars not 1400, not 2000. Trump had no power to get more than 600 out of them.

Unemployment was south of 300 all the way down to zero.

Damn its only been what 3-4 months and you already forgot and can't google the past?

[Bodakane]

you forgot to add "so soon", no one doubted it would happen eventually, that's why people still put some effort into it compared to say, Texas.

difference is demographics

West Virginia over the last 30 years has barely changed. And I bet if you dig to see mobility into and out of the state, people arent going there to stay, grow old and die, they only stay there if they were born there, so there is nothing to cause a change of views

West Virginia Racial Breakdown of Population
Racial composition 1990[67] 2000[68] 2010[69] 2019[70]
White 96.2% 95.0% 93.9% 93.1%
Black 3.1% 3.2% 3.4% 3.7%
Asian 0.4% 0.5% 0.7% 0.8%
Native 0.1% 0.2% 0.2% 0.2%
Native Hawaiian and
other Pacific Islander – – – -
Other race 0.1% 0.2% 0.3% 0.4%
Two or more races – 0.9% 1.5% 1.8%


vs Georgia
has gotten even more diverse, and its been at a faster pace than the national average

Georgia's racial breakdown of population
Racial composition 1990[45] 2000[46] 2010[47]
White 71.0% 65.1% 59.7%
Black 27.0% 28.7% 30.5%
Asian 1.2% 2.1% 3.3%
Native 0.2% 0.3% 0.3%
Native Hawaiian and
other Pacific Islander — 0.1% 0.1%
Other race 0.6% 2.4% 4.0%
Two or more races — 1.4% 2.1%



its more WV wont change anytime in the next 20-30 years without something forcing that change, more political outreach wont change things there.

Conventional wisdom is often wrong when it comes to things as diverse as people. I just don't see how change will happen if no real effort is given. I mean if they will vote for someone with a D in front of their name, then there's a foot in the door there and that door needs to be pushed.

Its just an automatic defeat if no effort is put into it, now and down the road.

[Zan15]

So i am actually reading on fox and comments from a republican complaining about Aid in the current covid bill....for....farmers.....

i just give up, i am digging a hole and hiding inside for a decade or two...

[Ivanstone]

you forgot to add "so soon", no one doubted it would happen eventually, that's why people still put some effort into it compared to say, Texas.

Texas is arguably more diverse than Georgia.

Of that 60% of white Georgians, almost all of those are non-Hispanic. In Texas more than 80% of the population is white but more than one third of those people are Hispanic. The latter are majority democrat voters.

Texas is really a purple state but low turn outs do happen. Georgia GOP are generally corrupt and stupid but I don't think any of them fucked up their state as nearly as bad as Abbott did Texas.

[Breccia]

i just give up, i am digging a hole and hiding inside for a decade or two...

Joke's on you. The bombs don't fall till 2077.

But seriously, Toomey rips Dem coronavirus bill’s racial justice provisions for farmers: ‘A partisan, left-wing wish list’

The Pennsylvania Republican also highlighted the inclusion of $91 million for outreach to student loan borrowers — "I don't even know what that means," he said — and the nearly $5 billion set aside for socially disadvantaged farmers and ranchers.

Introduced by Sen. Raphael Warnock, D-Ga., the $5 billion Emergency Relief for Farmers of Color Act, which would be part of the stimulus bill, would provide direct payments to Black, Hispanic and indigenous farmers. It also includes $1 billion to address systemic racism at the U.S. Agriculture Department and provide legal assistance to farmers of color.

"I say ‘about $4 billion’ because it says ‘such funds as may be necessary,'" Toomey said ."And here’s what the money is for: It’s going to pay off 120% of the debt of these farmers and ranchers."

He's also upset about benefits for places like museums, forgetting that a year into a pandemic Trump helped cause, libaries and museums took a serious hit.

Oh, and if someone from Pennsylvania seems defensive about the concept of racism in farming, I would encourage him to find a single African-American farmer in Pennsylvania. That's Amish country, son. Meanwhile I'm going to start a new level 1 alt and Iron Man it through level 60. I'm pretty sure I'll get to exalted with Court of Harvesters before Toomey can pose for a photo op.

[Benggaul]

Meanwhile I'm going to start a new level 1 alt and Iron Man it through level 60. I'm pretty sure I'll get to exalted with Court of Harvesters before Toomey can pose for a photo op.

Loving the Ember Court scenarios but hating that I only get to throw fabulous parties ONCE a week...

................

Biden nominates female generals whose promotions were reportedly delayed under Trump

President Biden nominated two female generals for promotions on Saturday, months after former President Trump's Pentagon officials reportedly delayed recommending they be promoted out of a concern the former president would reject them because they are women.

We heard about this before but now it's become "official".

McConnell planning an 'escape hatch' in case he leaves Senate before term…
Dr. Fauci Just Gave This Big COVID Warning on TV

President Biden nominated two female generals for promotions on Saturday, months after former President Trump's Pentagon officials reportedly delayed recommending they be promoted out of a concern the former president would reject them because they are women.

a man wearing a suit and tie: Biden nominates female generals whose promotions were reportedly delayed under Trump© Getty Biden nominates female generals whose promotions were reportedly delayed under Trump
The Pentagon issued two announcements declaring that Air Force Gen. Jacqueline D. Van Ovost and Army Lt. Gen. Laura J. Richardson will take on new assignments to four-star commands if approved by the Senate as expected.

Van Ovost will lead the Transportation Command, which manages the military's global transportation network.

Richardson is slated to move up from commanding general of the U.S. Army North in Joint Base San Antonio, Texas, to become the head of the Southern Command that handles military activities in Latin America.

The only female four-star general in the U.S. military currently serves as the commander of the Air Force's Mobility Command at Scott Air Force Base in Illinois.

Looks like another pretty good step forward if you ask me, though I'm no expert on the military. We'd have to get @Thekri in here for some insight on the noms themselves.

[Felya]

Well according to republicans in the senate it would have been 600 dollars not 1400, not 2000. Trump had no power to get more than 600 out of them.

Unemployment was south of 300 all the way down to zero.

Damn its only been what 3-4 months and you already forgot and can't google the past?

I think they are... very crudely... say that Trump would get this done if he really wanted to. It’s more pointing to the aggressive and take no prisoners, type of drive that Trump seemed to have. It’s like saying... ‘I wish democrats stop playing nice’...

[Themius]

Well according to republicans in the senate it would have been 600 dollars not 1400, not 2000. Trump had no power to get more than 600 out of them.

Unemployment was south of 300 all the way down to zero.

Damn its only been what 3-4 months and you already forgot and can't google the past?

I am talking about the initial payments, not the last 600 I thought that would be clearly obvious...

- - - Updated - - -

I think they are... very crudely... say that Trump would get this done if he really wanted to. It’s more pointing to the aggressive and take no prisoners, type of drive that Trump seemed to have. It’s like saying... ‘I wish democrats stop playing nice’...

No I am talking about the initial payments Trump did... nearly a year ago which compared to this bill were more expansive.

[DarkTZeratul]

No I am talking about the initial payments Trump did... nearly a year ago which compared to this bill were more expansive.

Marginally more expansive. The people at the high end of the range, that were cut out of this one, were already receiving significantly reduced payments under the previous bill. Before, it gradually decreased from 100% at $75k and below to 0% at $87k and above; now it gradually decreases from 100% at $75k and below to 0% at $80k and above.

[Draco-Onis]

Conventional wisdom is often wrong when it comes to things as diverse as people. I just don't see how change will happen if no real effort is given. I mean if they will vote for someone with a D in front of their name, then there's a foot in the door there and that door needs to be pushed.

Its just an automatic defeat if no effort is put into it, now and down the road.

Trump won West Virginia by almost 40 points they will vote for someone with a D next to their name but not anyone progressive basically you would need Manchin 2.0 electric bangoloo.

[Bodakane]

Trump won West Virginia by almost 40 points they will vote for someone with a D next to their name but not anyone progressive basically you would need Manchin 2.0 electric bangoloo.

This is my point.

I'm saying I don't buy the notion that the Dems shouldn't try for a more progressive candidate in X state and that lack effort is a part in why they don't win it, and pretty much to a man, the people that disagree with me, do so, by essentially saying...Dems shouldn't try for a more progressive candidate in X state.....

No matter what is said or happens, the approach by the Dems never changes.

[Draco-Onis]

This is my point.

I'm saying I don't buy the notion that the Dems shouldn't try for a more progressive candidate in X state and that lack effort is a part in why they don't win it, and pretty much to a man, the people that disagree with me, do so, by essentially saying...Dems shouldn't try for a more progressive candidate in X state.....

No matter what is said or happens, the approach by the Dems never changes.

Every political party has finite resources so it makes no sense for them to pour efforts into heavy lift states like West Virginia when low hanging fruits exist. I don't think you are seeing the whole picture there's nothing wrong with their approach it is logical given they don't have unlimited money, man power and contacts on the ground.

[Bodakane]

Every political party has finite resources so it makes no sense for them to pour efforts into heavy lift states like West Virginia when low hanging fruits exist. I don't think you are seeing the whole picture there's nothing wrong with their approach it is logical given they don't have unlimited money, man power and contacts on the ground.

I’m saying if time, effort and resources were spent in these places they could flipped. I’m saying the notion that it is impossible to flip them, is a self fulfilling prophecy.

So you telling me, X state can never be flipped so don’t spend time, effort and resources there...isn’t much of a counter.

I don’t believe the Dems cannot reach people in any state, ESPECIALLY, when the alternative is batshit crazy. The people need an alternative to the insanity of the current repubs, but if no one is there to provide that alternative, then......

[Benggaul]

I’m saying if time, effort and resources were spent in these places they could flipped. I’m saying the notion that it is impossible to flip them, is a self fulfilling prophecy.

So you telling me, X state can never be flipped so don’t spend time, effort and resources there...isn’t much of a counter.

I don’t believe the Dems cannot reach people in any state, ESPECIALLY, when the alternative is batshit crazy. The people need an alternative to the insanity of the current repubs, but if no one is there to provide that alternative, then......

I don't think it would be impossible to flip, but given that resources are finite there are other seats/states that are much more within the realm of "obtainable" and are therefore worth looking at first.

[Levelfive]

Conventional wisdom is often wrong when it comes to things as diverse as people. I just don't see how change will happen if no real effort is given. I mean if they will vote for someone with a D in front of their name, then there's a foot in the door there and that door needs to be pushed.

Its just an automatic defeat if no effort is put into it, now and down the road.

I largely agree with this, but it's long game, and it means convincing people that throwing money and resources at a state Democrats will likely lose for several election cycles, if not more, is not a waste. The reason Georgia eventually went blue (for however long) is because people poured energy and resources into the state over the course of several elections--that builds political infrastructure, and obviously Stacey Abrams was a force of nature. I would love to see Manchin (and a few others) get the boot as soon as Democrats pick up a couple other states and then we don't need him at all. The next 2 years (and then all the years after that) are a straight uphill climb for Democrats. We should have been focused on state legislatures 4 decades ago--like Republicans were--but here we are.

ETA: It's worth noting, though, that if they can pull this off, this is not terrible politics for Democrats:

"Although Manchin on Sunday maintained that he won’t change his mind when it comes to his opposition against getting rid of the filibuster, he expressed that he is open to making it “a little bit more painful” to use.

“Make him stand there and talk,” Manchin said on MSNBC’s “Meet the Press.” “I’m willing to look at any way we can. But I’m not willing to take away the involvement of the minority.”

Manchin appeared to float the idea of bringing back something like the “talking filibuster,” where a member of the minority would have to take the Senate floor and speak at length in order to block a vote. Manchin seemed to lean into a framing that some Democratic activists have suggested for centrist Democrats — conveying that reforms to the filibuster are necessary to “save” it, rather than eliminating it."

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/c...filibuster-hr1