valor for casual

[chiddie]

The key deteriorates only if you're not good enough. If you're not good enough you don't deserve the gear.

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Casual does not mean that at all. Casual means they do casual content. If you spend 40 hours a week doing WQ vs someone who spends 4 hours a week doing m10 them the guy who does m10 is more hardcore then the WQer.

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To encourage people who do want it to try different ways to get it. What sort of question is that?

Again, once upon a time casual meant you didn’t play much, it had no links with what type of content you did in game.

I play about 10 hours per week nowadays hence I’m a casual player. I’m in the 11-12 M+ bracket but I’m still casual nonetheless.

I will probably get KSM in a couple of months max but even when I’ll get it, I will still be a casual player.

I don’t remember when the word casual became attached to the type of content you play instead to how much time you play.

[WowIsDead64]

If you don't understand, why we complain about new Valor system, it's because back in old days it was intended for casual players, so it was available in LFD heroics. Don't say, that old LFD heroics are M+ now. No. LFD makes big difference here. It's queueable content. It's available for alts. I.e. you don't need to keep up to some RIO or something like that. Your fresh 60 alt can jump to there at day 1, as it was back in WotLK, Cata or MOP. If you don't understand difference between queueable content and pre-mades, then I have bad news for you. And now it really seems, that every valuable content lies behind the line, called M+. And what casuals have now? Getting 35 Valor per day for callings? Only to upgrade 197 catch up gear to 200??? Not worth it, sorry. That's why we talk about fixes for casual content. There is NOTHING TO DO NOW, because anima is unrewarding main-only xpack-wide grind of cosmetics, that isn't worth doing. And leveling alts isn't fun and causes burnout without flying.

Again. Don't get me wrong. We don't talk about free epics for casuals. We talk about THINGS TO DO. It takes just two weeks to get to Renown level 23 and then it takes just several days to get 197 gear (if you didn't grind anima before that). After that casual player HAS NOTHING TO DO on that character. NOTHING TO DO. And this problem isn't solved in 9.0.5, while it should have been.

And BFA's solution with slow "+5ilvl" grind - isn't good too. I.e. you should understand, that if 2 weeks is too fast to get that 197 gear, then may be it would be good idea to slow this grind down, so players would have things to do? No, other extreme is also bad. There should be some good middle ground between this two. "Comfortable" power shouldn't be way too time-gated, otherwise getting gear would turn into suffering and wouldn't be worth doing, as it was back in BFA. But further "fun" grind can be a little gated and take around 3-4 weeks per character.

[Dazu]

But you could buy stuff with badges in TBC when you got them, you didn't have to raid to use them. I've never seen in WoW any previous example of a currency dropping from an activity that is totally unuseable unless you do a specific other activity.
Anytime earlier honor or valor or badges or anything dropped you could use them without doing anthing else.
This would be more along the lines of dropping the actual raid gear in WQs but making it unequipable unless you have some raid achievement. Although when i think about it, it's probably next on their list.

This look like a really blatant try to get people to do M+ by dangeling the (otherwise) totally useless currency in every covenant reward window. I think that is bad style and makes you wonder if M+ has such bad participation numbers that they have to use such methods to get people to play it.

MoP - Bonus roll currency came from world quests and world content. The only place to use it was raid groups.
WoD - Bonus roll currencies from mission tables - only usable in raid/group content.
Legion - Bonus roll currency and quest start from mission tables - Only usable in raids/group content.
BFA - Bonus roll currency from missions - Only usable in raids.
Shadowlands - Bonus upgrade currency from world quest emissaries and 5man group content - Only usable in 5 man group content.

I mean its been what 10 years now of putting currencies in other parts of the game than the place they were used by.

Its a bonus for people who do multiple things. If you dont do mythic + its literally just another currency in the tab which means nothing to you. I have dozens of meaningless currencies in there many from content I either dont like/want to do but was forced to for the part of the game I did want to do. Ignore the currency if you dont want to use it. Others like most likely the vast majority of casual players who still do some M+ dungeons when they have time, and do callings and other world content will still get a few points to eventually spend and improve our gear to push higher in dungeons.

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If you don't understand, why we complain about new Valor system, it's because back in old days it was intended for casual players, so it was available in LFD heroics. Don't say, that old LFD heroics are M+ now. No. LFD makes big difference here. It's queueable content. It's available for alts. I.e. you don't need to keep up to some RIO or something like that. Your fresh 60 alt can jump to there at day 1, as it was back in WotLK, Cata or MOP. If you don't understand difference between queueable content and pre-mades, then I have bad news for you. And now it really seems, that every valuable content lies behind the line, called M+. And what casuals have now? Getting 35 Valor per day for callings? Only to upgrade 197 catch up gear to 200??? Not worth it, sorry. That's why we talk about fixes for casual content. There is NOTHING TO DO NOW, because anima is unrewarding main-only xpack-wide grind of cosmetics, that isn't worth doing. And leveling alts isn't fun and causes burnout without flying.

Again. Don't get me wrong. We don't talk about free epics for casuals. We talk about THINGS TO DO. It takes just two weeks to get to Renown level 23 and then it takes just several days to get 197 gear (if you didn't grind anima before that). After that casual player HAS NOTHING TO DO on that character. NOTHING TO DO. And this problem isn't solved in 9.0.5, while it should have been.

And BFA's solution with slow "+5ilvl" grind - isn't good too. I.e. you should understand, that if 2 weeks is too fast to get that 197 gear, then may be it would be good idea to slow this grind down, so players would have things to do? No, other extreme is also bad. There should be some good middle ground between this two. "Comfortable" power shouldn't be way too time-gated, otherwise getting gear would turn into suffering and wouldn't be worth doing, as it was back in BFA. But further "fun" grind can be a little gated and take around 3-4 weeks per character.

But in wrath you were screened on dungeons much like RIO is now except it was that useless addon called Gearscore at the time. If your gear wasnt high enough - no invite. By time LFD rolled around 5mans didnt matter because usually 1-2 in the group overgeared the heroics so much they could solo/duo them. Sure you could buy some entry gear from vendors, usually 2-3 slots with the currency. After that, in 5mans, you had 0 progression possibility without joining a raid group (or PvP). Your complaining that theres no progression now when the solo PvE content gives you all 15-16 slots of gear at near raid level quality and you want wrath style back of 3 pieces?

Anima is fine. You can accrue it without leaving your covenant hall, you can use it for gear, gold, crafting mats, special content from your convenant etc. Sure its fairly boring content but atleast its less hassle than the garrison was and less important.
BTW you can gear to 194-203 fully in the game just doing solo campaign and world quests without ever joining a group. Never have I ever seen an expansion where you could fill every slot on your character to near or equal ilvl as the entry raid without ever being in a group and without spending a single gold piece within the first patch of the expansion.

[ClassicPeon]

What I said was that it was possible to complete +15 and up keys in every DPS spec. In this dataset, every single DPS spec is represented, which literally proves that you can do a +15 in every DPS spec.

I - have - never - said - that - wasnt - the - case.

Also:

Burst is vital for literally any key level unless you are doing keys below your skill level.

When you have data showing that a large majority of people who do something have the exact thing you said was vital to doing it - that literally makes what you said right.

i'm not saying you CANT do it without. I'm saying it makes a huge difference, and the data shows

Why why do you keep arguing it against me as if you are making a point?

[WowIsDead64]

But in wrath you were screened on dungeons much like RIO is now except it was that useless addon called Gearscore at the time. If your gear wasnt high enough - no invite. By time LFD rolled around 5mans didnt matter because usually 1-2 in the group overgeared the heroics so much they could solo/duo them. Sure you could buy some entry gear from vendors, usually 2-3 slots with the currency. After that, in 5mans, you had 0 progression possibility without joining a raid group (or PvP). Your complaining that theres no progression now when the solo PvE content gives you 7-8 pieces of gear at near raid level quality and you want wrath style back of 3 pieces?

Anima is fine. You can accrue it without leaving your covenant hall, you can use it for gear, gold, crafting mats, special content from your convenant etc. Sure its fairly boring content but atleast its less hassle than the garrison was and less important.
BTW you can gear to 194-203 fully in the game just doing solo campaign and world quests without ever joining a group. Never have I ever seen an expansion where you could fill every slot on your character to near or equal ilvl as the entry raid without ever being in a group and without spending a single gold piece within the first patch of the expansion.

I don't complain about gear itself. Gear itself is great, sure. But there is no further progression path for casual players after getting this gear. Getting anima cosmetics and covenant sanctum upgrades could be that content, especially if we'd take into account, that covenants are major SL's feature, but Blizzard "overgated" this content, making it not worth doing.

[Dazu]

I don't complain about gear itself. Gear itself is great, sure. But there is no further progression path for casual players after getting this gear. Getting anima cosmetics and covenant sanctum upgrades could be that content, especially if we'd take into account, that covenants are major SL's feature, but Blizzard "overgated" this content, making it not worth doing.

Im not sure on what you are complaining about then. Theres never been any further progression path for solo players after you hit the original max gear level without doing group content and you finished the main questlines. Thats as true for shadowlands as it was in vanilla, with the occasional side content like special class mounts (although even those were gated behind group content).
Maybe you could class artifact weapon levels but that was as bad as anima is now, except it directly tied to player power rather than cosmetics.

Further, the game has become more accessible, but its still a MMORPG. You seem to be using casual player term as someone who only does solo questing. This entire game was never designed nor aimed around that solo activity alone.

People overuse the casual term way too much now, casual has such a vast array of meanings that its use as a descriptor is pointless now. Casual means everything from the person who just does quests and the campaign right through to the person who does top level content just not very often. People need to stop using casual as a term and actually say what kind of player they are referring too.

[WowIsDead64]

Im not sure on what you are complaining about then. Theres never been any further progression path for solo players after you hit the original max gear level without doing group content and you finished the main questlines. Thats as true for shadowlands as it was in vanilla, with the occasional side content like special class mounts (although even those were gated behind group content).
Maybe you could class artifact weapon levels but that was as bad as anima is now, except it directly tied to player power rather than cosmetics.

I don't like argument "It has always been like that" or some examples from the past. First of all we talk about present and future, not the past. Second - it's not 100% true. Some old xpacks, like WotLK, Cata, WOD and Legion, had good casual endgame. Yeah it was mostly in later patches. And it's the biggest question. Why can't we have good casual content at release?

And second thing - that's why alts are so important. If casual endgame ends at some point, then leveling alts is only viable option for casual players. But all of a sudden it seems, that at some point Blizzard started hating alts and trying to restrict them. Blizzard still refuse to admit, that alts are extremely important for casual players and therefore casual content should be designed around them.

[Chriisto]

I don't like argument "It has always been like that" or some examples from the past. First of all we talk about present and future, not the past. Second - it's not 100% true. Some old xpacks, like WotLK, Cata, WOD and Legion, had good casual endgame. Yeah it was mostly in later patches. And it's the biggest question. Why can't we have good casual content at release?

And second thing - that's why alts are so important. If casual endgame ends at some point, then leveling alts is only viable option for casual players. But all of a sudden it seems, that at some point Blizzard started hating alts and trying to restrict them. Blizzard still refuse to admit, that alts are extremely important for casual players and therefore casual content should be designed around them.

Your are trolling, right? The content is there you are just choosing not to do it. It's an MMORPG. The end game is group content. You raid, pvp or do M+. That's the game buddy. It's like if people got on The Witcher 3 forums and complained about its lack of group content. It makes no sense. You should play The Witchery because it sounds like you are after a single player experience.

[Dakara]

My /played in a week suggests I'm not casual... but I certainly have a casual attitude towards M+

With H CN on Farm and progressing on Mythic, I do have a lot of Raid gear (which is a good thing) because +15's only drop 210 gear and the weekly 226 is just that.. weekly. But Valor does not entice me to run more M+ because A.) I have to re-farm gear I've already got and then B.) I need to grind a currency to upgrade it.

If Valor was not a M+ only system and allowed us to also upgrade Raid gear (e.g. 220 ilvl after AOTC inline with ilvl of gear dropped from the final bosses) then I might be inclined to run mote M+ (maybe). But then I also believe Valor should drop from raid bosses for the same reasons.

For too long, Blizzard have encouraged (I realize no one is forced to do anything) players to go into content they don't really enjoy... I've always maintened that's a design flaw as it leads to burnout and/or people just quitting out of lack of enjoyment... just like BIS PvE Essences being tied to PvP in BFA and (until now) PvP gearing being better than PvE in SL.

I don't mind a few M+ each week with my friends. But I'm not grinding it for upgrades.

[OMGTwitchTV]

its not . but its also not worth runing for a lot of people and VP is not changing that.

We'll have to agree to disagree. There was a time when someone would say the word Mythic and I would log out of Discord and drag my gnome into Black Temple or AQ40 to farm rep and mogs rather than face down any ridiculously hard content. However, after being tricked into running a +9 one time, I now see that while there is some challenge to a Mythic, it is not the overwhelming monster people are making it out to be. The cool part is, for someone like me who is only an LFR guy, I can still get my own 226 gear using this reborn currency with the help of friends and guildmates, and should I decide to step into a raid, it will be far less complicated than the +5 I just stepped out of. People are laboring under the misconception that Mythic means impossible, or at the very least, improbable. As a casual with a 203 iLvL, I can honestly say my ass still clenches when someone uses Astral Keys and I see +16 - +21s out there. I am very comfortable at +5 and lower, and will eventually make +10s a regular event. I'm just tired of making up excuses just to talk myself out of playing the game as it sits. Just my 2 cents.

[gaymer77]

if you dont do any mm+, valor you gain with wq and some quest has any purpose ?

they are only to upgrade mm+ stuff right ? nothing to buy with them ?

valor is only used to upgrade pieces of gear you obtain from doing mythic+. They added earning it from callings to be a way that those who are running mythic+ for gear to upgrade to be able to earn it while they are doing the calling quests for rep/gold/conduits/mounts/pets/etc that can be obtained from the calling bags.

[Dazu]

I don't like argument "It has always been like that" or some examples from the past. First of all we talk about present and future, not the past. Second - it's not 100% true. Some old xpacks, like WotLK, Cata, WOD and Legion, had good casual endgame. Yeah it was mostly in later patches. And it's the biggest question. Why can't we have good casual content at release?

And second thing - that's why alts are so important. If casual endgame ends at some point, then leveling alts is only viable option for casual players. But all of a sudden it seems, that at some point Blizzard started hating alts and trying to restrict them. Blizzard still refuse to admit, that alts are extremely important for casual players and therefore casual content should be designed around them.

What end game in Wrath or any other expansion? You mean catchup mechanics that were designed purely to alleviate the tediousness of gearing via old raid tiers which were rarely if at all being run anymore and aimed squarely on the raid/alts target and wasnt actually content but , in the words used since TBC, welfare epics? Unless you are referring to content patches which added more story/quests and zones, but thats still only a small amount of content.

Wrath has, maybe you could class it as content for solo players, the argent tournament which was a far later patch. Outside of that, at max level, you had nothing but group content. Towards the end you had LFD for stupidly easy heroics which took 5-10minutes (except for roleplay heavy or time gated fights) and less solo world content you have right now in the first patch of this expansion. The only end game solo content in Wrath to now is world quests/daily quests, achievements and collections.

No just because its always been this way doesnt mean it cant change, but the change you are referring to would be like me asking for puzzles and platform jumping to be added to CoD because FPS isnt my style. The core game isnt based around that. WoW core game isnt based around solo progression at max level and never has been, and also wouldnt make sense considering its genre of being a multiplayer RPG.

As for alt friendliness - Shadowlands has quick and easy leveling and a choice on how to do it. Gearing is incredibly fast and easy to a base level around 195-200 and can be done solo, with a group, in 5mans or raids, in PvP or almost any way you want to do it except crafting. Anima comes easily just doing content you enjoy and can be sped up if you dont mind doing some group content like the worldboss - and that anima can be used to gain gear upto 194/197 ilvl in most/all slots. Theres no endless grind so time on alt isnt wasted progress like the last 2 expansions. Resources come quick and easy so you dont need to dedicate time on each character to farm resources to continue stuff (Garrison resources/Anima now, war resources, tending your farm in MoP etc).

[kamuimac]

Again, once upon a time casual meant you didn’t play much, it had no links with what type of content you did in game.

I play about 10 hours per week nowadays hence I’m a casual player. I’m in the 11-12 M+ bracket but I’m still casual nonetheless.

I will probably get KSM in a couple of months max but even when I’ll get it, I will still be a casual player.

I don’t remember when the word casual became attached to the type of content you play instead to how much time you play.

it was always like this. the notion that anyone playing little but playing extremly hardcore content is casual was always laughable.

it was always about approach one had to game

for very many years casuals had their badges/VP/VP upgrades/lfr/emmisaires and were perfecly happy with that . they logged in farmed that hc dungeons / emmisaries for couple of hours a week and logged out - but played this consistently for whole expansions. . they never had any desire to do hardcore content like organised raiding / CM/ m+ - they would rather quit then do that.

both in WoD and SL blizzard took that away from them - their only little content they enjoyed in game.

and guess what - there is way way way more casuals then hardcore gamers like you.

in WoD blizzard imidiately accepted defeat and gave them itlv upgrade back once over 3 mln left game in first 3 months.

for some bizzare reason (and we all know that that reason is Ion ) in SL even though they lost 50% of playerbase in 2 months they refuse to back from wrong choices. what is Ion way of thinking ? that if those people have nothign to do in game they will suddenly do toxic hardcore content ? ofc they wont - they will unsub and play for example FF14 which takes great care about their casual playerbase.

the problem is that it will end up as complete disaster for retail's future - with sever budget cuts coming without doubt for 10.0 . Why would activision invest into dead game that doestn attact people anymore and even if it attracts them it looses subs imidately .

mark my words - we will only see 1 more raid tier in SL because it most likely already got axed due to sub losses.

[Dazu]

We'll have to agree to disagree. There was a time when someone would say the word Mythic and I would log out of Discord and drag my gnome into Black Temple or AQ40 to farm rep and mogs rather than face down any ridiculously hard content. However, after being tricked into running a +9 one time, I now see that while there is some challenge to a Mythic, it is not the overwhelming monster people are making it out to be. The cool part is, for someone like me who is only an LFR guy, I can still get my own 226 gear using this reborn currency with the help of friends and guildmates, and should I decide to step into a raid, it will be far less complicated than the +5 I just stepped out of. People are laboring under the misconception that Mythic means impossible, or at the very least, improbable. As a casual with a 203 iLvL, I can honestly say my ass still clenches when someone uses Astral Keys and I see +16 - +21s out there. I am very comfortable at +5 and lower, and will eventually make +10s a regular event. I'm just tired of making up excuses just to talk myself out of playing the game as it sits. Just my 2 cents.

Im much like you. Ive been really casual since WoD now, while I may log in for abit I rarely am actually doing much aside from pottering around etc. Mythics I liked in WoD, but the M+ seemed so daunting I mostly avoided it until later BFA and even then usually only low keys (+5). My wife was very nervous too but weve begun running originally +3s and were a little worried doing our first +5 last week (both at ilvl 200 so well overgeared) simply because of a few bad groups. Now im thinking of trying to push for +10s especially with this new valor system to upgrade our gear once we get some new M+ items. Getting these few from callings is nice, because my less played alts are getting a little to use when I switch to playing them more later on etc.

[kamuimac]

My /played in a week suggests I'm not casual... but I certainly have a casual attitude towards M+

With H CN on Farm and progressing on Mythic, I do have a lot of Raid gear (which is a good thing) because +15's only drop 210 gear and the weekly 226 is just that.. weekly. But Valor does not entice me to run more M+ because A.) I have to re-farm gear I've already got and then B.) I need to grind a currency to upgrade it.

If Valor was not a M+ only system and allowed us to also upgrade Raid gear (e.g. 220 ilvl after AOTC inline with ilvl of gear dropped from the final bosses) then I might be inclined to run mote M+ (maybe). But then I also believe Valor should drop from raid bosses for the same reasons.

For too long, Blizzard have encouraged (I realize no one is forced to do anything) players to go into content they don't really enjoy... I've always maintened that's a design flaw as it leads to burnout and/or people just quitting out of lack of enjoyment... just like BIS PvE Essences being tied to PvP in BFA and (until now) PvP gearing being better than PvE in SL.

I don't mind a few M+ each week with my friends. But I'm not grinding it for upgrades.

not encouraged - tried to force people into harder content that they enjoy to justify even putting this hardcore content into game and repeatedly completly failed at it.

because majority of people do not play wow for hardcore content like raiding and m+ .

smiliarly they will fail with current version of VP. we will see further iterations in couple of weeks once more people will unsub .

its just matter of time.

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Im much like you. Ive been really casual since WoD now, while I may log in for abit I rarely am actually doing much aside from pottering around etc. Mythics I liked in WoD, but the M+ seemed so daunting I mostly avoided it until later BFA and even then usually only low keys (+5). My wife was very nervous too but weve begun running originally +3s and were a little worried doing our first +5 last week (both at ilvl 200 so well overgeared) simply because of a few bad groups. Now im thinking of trying to push for +10s especially with this new valor system to upgrade our gear once we get some new M+ items. Getting these few from callings is nice, because my less played alts are getting a little to use when I switch to playing them more later on etc.

good luck. you will need a lot of it.

what you will realise very soon is how hard they are when actually hard affixes kick in and when gear cannot carry you anymore you will get stuck very soon .

remember you need all 10s in time to upgrade your gear further.

one thing you will realise soon is that people who say how lol easy 10s are are all in 215+ gear while you will be there with 207 after many weeks of farming VP. and in SL those 8 itlv is world of difference in performance.

[Chriisto]

I don't like argument "It has always been like that" or some examples from the past. First of all we talk about present and future, not the past. Second - it's not 100% true. Some old xpacks, like WotLK, Cata, WOD and Legion, had good casual endgame. Yeah it was mostly in later patches. And it's the biggest question. Why can't we have good casual content at release?

And second thing - that's why alts are so important. If casual endgame ends at some point, then leveling alts is only viable option for casual players. But all of a sudden it seems, that at some point Blizzard started hating alts and trying to restrict them. Blizzard still refuse to admit, that alts are extremely important for casual players and therefore casual content should be designed around them.

I really hope you are trolling. The content is there, you are choosing to ignore it. Wow is an MMORPG. The end game content has always been Raiding, PvP or dungeons. That is of course unless you are into RP and hey, that's a valid choice. You don't see people posting on The Witchery 3 forums complaining about the lack of group content. Do you know why? It's a single player game buddy. It may be just what you are actually after. If you don't like game just stop playing. Your arguments are ridiculous.

[Yriel]

MoP - Bonus roll currency came from world quests and world content. The only place to use it was raid groups.
WoD - Bonus roll currencies from mission tables - only usable in raid/group content.
Legion - Bonus roll currency and quest start from mission tables - Only usable in raids/group content.
BFA - Bonus roll currency from missions - Only usable in raids.
Shadowlands - Bonus upgrade currency from world quest emissaries and 5man group content - Only usable in 5 man group content.

I mean, if bonus rolls are your best argument.. you could always use them on world bosses which are open world content. I always used my bonus rolls there or in LFR, i never had them stack up being useless.

[Dazu]

not encouraged - tried to force people into harder content that they enjoy to justify even putting this hardcore content into game and repeatedly completly failed at it.

because majority of people do not play wow for hardcore content like raiding and m+ .

smiliarly they will fail with current version of VP. we will see further iterations in couple of weeks once more people will unsub .

its just matter of time.

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good luck. you will need a lot of it.

what you will realise very soon is how hard they are when actually hard affixes kick in and when gear cannot carry you anymore you will get stuck very soon .

remember you need all 10s in time to upgrade your gear further.

one thing you will realise soon is that people who say how lol easy 10s are are all in 215+ gear while you will be there with 207 after many weeks of farming VP. and in SL those 8 itlv is world of difference in performance.

Oh yeah im aware of that. Im expecting them to be quite difficult but doing +5s relatively easily now has shown me that, so long as the group plays well, its attainable, and if I move incrementally higher should be more than doable. Plus being a altoholic and actually enjoying playing many characters gives me decent choice on which character to proceed with that has the better chance of finding groups because of peoples stupid ideas of only going with the 'meta' that worlds best utilise.

[WowIsDead64]

What end game in Wrath or any other expansion? You mean catchup mechanics that were designed purely to alleviate the tediousness of gearing via old raid tiers which were rarely if at all being run anymore and aimed squarely on the raid/alts target and wasnt actually content but , in the words used since TBC, welfare epics? Unless you are referring to content patches which added more story/quests and zones, but thats still only a small amount of content.

Wrath has, maybe you could class it as content for solo players, the argent tournament which was a far later patch. Outside of that, at max level, you had nothing but group content. Towards the end you had LFD for stupidly easy heroics which took 5-10minutes (except for roleplay heavy or time gated fights) and less solo world content you have right now in the first patch of this expansion. The only end game solo content in Wrath to now is world quests/daily quests, achievements and collections.

No just because its always been this way doesnt mean it cant change, but the change you are referring to would be like me asking for puzzles and platform jumping to be added to CoD because FPS isnt my style. The core game isnt based around that. WoW core game isnt based around solo progression at max level and never has been, and also wouldnt make sense considering its genre of being a multiplayer RPG.

As for alt friendliness - Shadowlands has quick and easy leveling and a choice on how to do it. Gearing is incredibly fast and easy to a base level around 195-200 and can be done solo, with a group, in 5mans or raids, in PvP or almost any way you want to do it except crafting. Anima comes easily just doing content you enjoy and can be sped up if you dont mind doing some group content like the worldboss - and that anima can be used to gain gear upto 194/197 ilvl in most/all slots. Theres no endless grind so time on alt isnt wasted progress like the last 2 expansions. Resources come quick and easy so you dont need to dedicate time on each character to farm resources to continue stuff (Garrison resources/Anima now, war resources, tending your farm in MoP etc).

Yeah, my be it was catch-up mechanic back in WotLK, but it granted great gradual alt progression. Leveling/normals -> 3.0 heroics -> Coliseum heroics -> ICC heroics -> badge rewards -> then may be some PUG raids, because raids were LFR-like easy back then (at least 1st-2nd quarters and it was enough for casual players).

And overall it sounds great on paper, but in reality it feels bad. I've tested everything by myself, I've leveled 4 characters, I've tried different approaches on every character and, you know what, currently I don't have any desire to resub right now. 9.1 is 50/50. Yeah, it brings flying. But if flying will be gated behind even more Renown levels (and it will be), then I'll wait for catch-up first. And 9.2 won't be far away then. If it will finally fix things, then may be it will be better to just wait for it.

[Dazu]

I mean, if bonus rolls are your best argument.. you could always use them on world bosses which are open world content. I always used my bonus rolls there or in LFR, i never had them stack up being useless.

Well if you are playing some hacked form of the game that allowed you to solo MoP world bosses sure, its solo content, but I couldn't solo them until significantly after the expansions were over therefor they are group content. If you had done enough solo content you would cap on bonus rolls unless you did the group content aswell.

So you did group content/raid content and used a currency gained from solo content, but are now complaining its a problem with gaining currency from solo content, with which to use for group content? If you dont want to use them, ignore them.

I'm not saying its great or perfect, I just pointed out that you said we've never had currencies this way, when we've had them work similar, with different names or roles, but similar nonetheless since MoP (and really actually Wrath that required 5 man content to buy raid required gear which were by that point significantly different areas of play in the expansion).