I'm not being sarcastic.
M+ once you get to the +10 area fills a niche between heroic and mythic raiding and rewards as such.
This is borne out with the great vault and the item level to which you can upgrade mythic dungeon gear drops.
Once you have a good group it can certainly go easier and faster, but the fact is that much of M+ functions in the PuG space where it can be complete luck of the draw. This is to say nothing of folks that leave for whatever reason which can cause a key to deplete - whereas in a raid you can often quickly replace them - that there's far less margin of error since one tank can't help carry the other, you can't just carry a shit healer, you can't just strongarm with 5 good dps carrying the weight of 2 or 3 poor ones.
The mechanics can be more dynamic - just this past week with spiteful I've seen mages not dropping rings, no binding shot, poor AoE stuns, no slows and people getting trucked because of it.
Yes if you have a good strong group you can trivialize the content, but that's true for raiding and M+ both. However the tolerances are more narrow in an M+ environment and that's a fact.
You should've said that you are being sarcastic, you cant seriously think that the later part of the raid is anything comparable to a meme +10, you just cant.
edit: to OP, yes rewards should reflect the content you do and how good you are, its basic in every rpg that the greater deeds you do, the better the rewards you get, but wow community nowadays wants to change this to fit their narrative, guess they are new to the rpg genre xd
Last edited by Frozenbro; 2021-03-21 at 08:49 AM.
At least you can upgrade.
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Alteast Warforged could reward world players with upgrades too.
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So time =/= effort, you mean?
Does this mean we should limit pull attempts on raids?
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So, when Mythic+ becomes a trivial feeling, it should reward less?
FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..
Yes, same with when it becomes hard, atm its extremely unfair that it still rewards shitty 210 gear when pushing keys over 18, so theres plenty of flaws in the system, but at least blizz is now looking into it with valor addition, you dont get the best sword in an rpg by doing the first main quest dont you?
No, but you literally said"Spending time doing something that requires a brain =/= spending time doing something that doesnt require a brain.", so when a Mythic+ becomes less of a challenge, should rewards be reduced then? And who do you scale it after? By Mythic seasons? M+ dropping less/worse gear the older the dungeon is?
As well, world content isn't the same as doing the first main quest nor is everything brainless, I am not expecting the same levels as raiding or Mythic+ item level, though it would be fairer to still operate some progression in the form of Warforged for World Content, or the ability to upgrade further with Valor. We already get a jokingly low amount of Valor from Callings compared to spamming Mythic+, so there is no threats there.
And I know people feel intimidated about Warforge having a chance to proc better than some of their gear.
FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..
The relative difficulty that you are coming up with doesnt matter to anyone, in regards to the objective difficulty of the game, when you do a +2 even tho it may seem difficult to you, for the game standards it isnt since rewards scale to +15 for a reason, so as it should the gear from +2s is bad, basic rpg idea.
If a mythic+ becomes less of a challenge for you cause you got better or you got better gear, thats good, but the rewards structure is already established and thats why harder content rewards better stuff, and easier content gives the rewards according to its difficulty.
The issue with the community is that they expect from blizz a compensation for the removal of titanforging, why should they? is the community entitled to having some kind of progression via titanforging or w/e system even tho theres 3 different gear progression paths? i wouldnt honestly mind if they introduce warforging with 10 ilvls as a cap or something, but you guys need to realize that you arent entitled to receive this, nor you can demand it just because it existed in some iteration, the game worked fine with 2 progression paths before, now we have 3 but its still not enough? blizz biggest mistake was introducing titanforging, now the community demands progression by just moving a finger, since thats what titanforging achieved.
One could argue that Mythic+ consists mostly of following paths predetermined by other players, so "Requires a brain" (Very leading and derogatory, BTW) is up for debate there, too...
That being said, i don't think solo content should give the same itemlevel gear as group/raid content, but the current situation, where progression (Which is the important part, becoming more powerful over time, the very essence of RPGs) comes to a dead stop after a few weeks of grinding anima, that's far from optimal, too.
My raid is 9/10 heroic. I cannot talk our one healer into running M+10 (highest I've been able to get is a +8), because she says it's too hard. There are eight dungeons, versus one raid, with trash that actually matters, and fifteen affixes. That's a lot more to learn, and it changes weekly based on what keys we have and the affixes for the week. Compared to raid, where there are a total of ten fights to learn, M+ asks more of a person on the learning front.
I think it's also easier to carry someone in a raid than it is in M+. I tank our raid, and I out DPS some of the DPS players. When that happens in a M+, we typically don't time them. That being said, it's typically easier to manage fewer people, so in terms of the organizational effort, M+ seems a lot easier to me.
I mean, even if you just follow a path, unless you know how to actually play the game, you arent timing a +18 key, so theres that.
As far as rewards and progression goes, they could maybe add upgrades to the covenant armor up to 207 ilvl or something, thats as far as i would go with it, more than that and you start making mythic+ and then heroic raiding oudated, just like BFA did with m+ vs heroic raiding, where heroic raiding was completely useless compared to spamming mythic +15s until you were better geared than anything heroic could offer you, you cant buff X progression path to the point where Y and Z becomes irrelevant, specially if X progression path is 100000 times easier.
Of course this would be great and healthy, asmooth and nice solution for valor, but keep in mind that they want to generate token trades and a free System where things are equal are not helpful when pushing stock prices. So blizz is deeply interested in creating systems that other players use to "work" under the cheapest conditioNs. And yes, every booster is also a worker for blizz.
Maybe they should, like items rewarded from M+ have a new stat that gives a 1% increase to damage, healing or 1% damage reduction dependingon role while inside a dungeon, raid items provide the bonuses while inside a raid and pvp items while engaged in pvp or when inside instanced pvp content.
PvP items are the best gearing method because you have the ability to pick what item you want and it's also guaranteed that you will get an item once you reach the rating and conquest amounts. For the rest you have no guarantee you'll receive an item, let alone one that you need.
it is indeed ridiculius that GV doesnt reward 226 from killing X or Y number of bosses in hc modes just like completing lets say 20 WQ doesnt allow to pick like 213 reward from GV for WQ.
this shoudl be indeed hotfixed to bring other sources up to decent level rewards
I think Valor is more of an acknowledgement of how bullshit M+ gearing is and they have no real fix for it. You either allow infinite farming of gear or you don't. And if you do, why can't I farm raid bosses every day?
Thats why theres a seasonal cap on valor which means the items you can farm to 220 is limited, which makes sense, cause otherwise heroic raiding would be again useless, just like BFA, but people dont realize this and think that valor should give you fully 220 toons, which is hilarious.
honestly im not surprised.
i laught every time someone tell how "lol-easy" +10 is - for majority of playerbase its ultra hardcore mode.
majority of people were more then happy with runing like +5 or +6 and fishing for TF.
now all those peopel are gone and playing somethign else because no game could ever survive catering only to hardcores.