They should totally exist.
Lightforged Death Knights are a thing, that's the same concept in reverse. They are INFUSED with Light, they are permanently GLOWING with it, yet can become undead.
They should totally exist.
Lightforged Death Knights are a thing, that's the same concept in reverse. They are INFUSED with Light, they are permanently GLOWING with it, yet can become undead.
Would you be okay with Forsaken Paladins if they used cosmetic variants like Unholy Light? I feel like this is a way that makes sense for people who don't like the pure Light direction for Undead Paladins, and I don't hear people in favor of pure Light Undead Paladin not liking this either, it just seems completely off the table because of the art it would require to make it happen. What I'm saying is, is that I don't think the class itself is what is driving some away from the concept, it's that some may feel Blizzard aren't willing to do the work necessary to make it as cool as it may need to be to bring everyone on board with it. There may also be a worry other classes would look for these options too, but this has been done before circa Warlock Green Fire, so I don't think it's unfeasible.
Dragonrider Talritha, from the Descent of Dragons Hearthstone expansion:
I've actually, for some reason, put a little thought into some potential lore behind an undead paladin. So the way a paladin works is they channel some kind of 'divine' energy. For the Silver Hand and draenei it's 'the light', for the belf's it's the sunwell, for the tauren it is their sun god, and for the zandalari it's some loa or something (never really figured that one out).
Now in D&D you can have evil aligned paladins, andinstead of drawing divine power they draw infernal power. So how about an undead paladin does something similar? We know that Naaru go through a cycle of going all void like before being reborn as a being of light, so how about a Naaru, or section of Naaru embracing that part of their cycle and instead of becoming some mindless void god type thing, they retain their reason and become a font of more shadowy power that acts in a similar way to their light bound siblings? This would provide a font of power that the undead could draw from without the problem of it burning them inside and out.
RETH
If I had to guess at how this would best work, we know that Naaru twisted turn Void aligned. And while this derives from faith, it seems one has to intentionally revere a source they deem good or lawful to get Light and a source they deem evil or chaotic to get Void. The one Void-aligned Paladin variants I can find are those of the Twilight Cult.
To find something a bit more common for Undead some assortment of Undead so far have wielded Unholy Light. From two sources I know can we see how things like Unholy Light actually operate in lore -- it's referenced in The Raising of a Frost Wyrm, and in the Shadow Ascendant (an rpg class and card in Hearthstone). In the book, it describes the light in the chest of a Frost Wyrm, and for Ascendants it's described as the eyes of the Ascended Forsaken. The same eye description follows similarly to the given appearance of all Undead player eyes pre-SL.
Combined with he more prominent use of Unholy Light in various raised Undead, and I suppose by extension the kind we could theorize makes up all Forsaken, that this is a force they could all reasonably tap into regardless of how they were raised, as even post-Cata Forsaken have shown to have the yellow eyes.
And, to be clear, the Shadow Ascendant follows the Forgotten Shadow - a religion that already permeates Forsaken culture. Meanwhile, Void worshipping in the Twilight variant we have seen not only has less Forsaken examples it's also all but gone now with the fall of Deathwing. Though, there were aberrations that share model with Undead for recent N'zoth content, but Drowned aren't really Forsaken for all intents and purposes, and unlike the control of the Lich King can't be broken or found in friendly variants in lore like the Shadow Ascendant can - all N'zoth Drowned variants seem to be entirely hostile long-term. But if that hurdle or another rising of the Twilight Cult were to happen, those seem more wide-spread in the world enough to make more sense, whereas the Forgotten Shadow is more specific to Forsaken Society.
Lore reasons. The reason I heard is the difference between priests and paladins is something like priests only use the light around them but paladins infuse their bodys with the light itself.
Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
Pyro: Yanfei, Amber, diluc, xiangling, thoma, Xinyan, Bennett
Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
Hydro: Barbara, Zingqiu, Ayato
Cyro: Shenhe, Kaeya, Chongyun, Diona, Ayaka, Rosaria
Electro: Fischl, Lisa, Miko, Kujou, Raiden, Razor
I still dig the idea of a Forsaken Paladin Order done up like flagellants and lepers, with bandage wrappings covering them up, who treat the pain caused by the Light as a purifying penance for their sins.
And like with Tirion, Paladins can also reconnect with it. But The Light isn't the only faith that can work with Paladins, anyway.
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There are many examples of Undead Paladins that exist. Whether it's possible or not isn't the issue.
Yes...lets make everything better by just being identical to one another! So people like you...yeah I'm looking at you can complain and say WoW is so boring because it's just ripping off D&D...because people like you love to complain no matter what.
But yes...lets pretend like Goblin Druids and Gnome Demon Hunters would make sense, because it's totally the same when you make up a character on paper vs a character in a video game
As a skeptic to certain race-class combos like Undead Paladin, despite all the tangible NPC examples using abilities in combat that are available in the game, what could be done to have it make sense to you?
Sunwalkers still receive flak despite established NPCs, lore gossip and quests, as well as hubs and prominent recurring friendly named NPCs. What needs to be done to make these concepts more grounded in WoW that hasn't been done already, that maybe other accepted new race-class combos have gotten?
Or is it more an issue that anything that, even if it was in Classic, if it wasn't playable at a race's inception, is this somehow unacceptable altogether to some people and do you thnk it's reasonable to maintain restrictions like these indefinitely when lore develops to allow them?
I don't have a big problem with Undead Pallies...maybe a little far fetched but there has been at least one example since vanilla...my problem is with what the person I replied to said...that every class should be open to every race.
Like the examples I used are too farfetched to be believable
I don't have a problem with Undead Pally...I just want Nelf Pallies if Undead get it
Because reasons.
Everything is possible if those stubburn devs allow it cause shockingly enough, our characters aren't canon. They are just a random champion. They don't need to conform to lore and all class combos should be unlocked... but reasons. Dev reasons.
I mean, at this point we have lightforged undead, cursed druids, shaman goblins, etc. It really doesn't matter. It's just stubburness at this point.
Last edited by Swnem; 2021-03-29 at 08:00 AM.
Eh at this point why not. fuck it. Class exclusivity has gone down the drain and the only thing holding anything back is lack of resources for every class getting unique stuff, specifically racial paladin mounts, druid forms, shaman totems aaaand.... thats it isnt it... yeah.
I think it's time for next expansion to allow all races all classes combos. It's all "impossibru", until Blizzard inevitably puts in a loophole.
At this point it's about time they just take this step and recognize player characters as exceptional, as they are and allow combos that are not typical to otherwise plain grunts.
And ultimately yes, if there is Zeliek and Holy Undead Priests who get access to light because they are exceptional, imo it's fine no give undead paladins too and brand it as Zeliek type of wonder only few, PC among them, can pull out.
As a whole now that I think about it, light for undead being banned ship has sailed in 1.0 with undead priests, which I imagine was a necessity at the time. This lore fart I heard here about them somehow being "devoted bearing the pain" matches the paladin profile just as well.
It was basically an excuse to cover lack of time they had in Vanilla development to style undead priest holy spells and trees as shadow versions. Not blaming them, I imagine it was complex to the point of undead priests being a class of their own in those archaic times.
Last edited by Gaidax; 2021-03-29 at 09:14 AM.