Punk rockers/anarchists and Libertarians, what is the difference?

[Machismo]

See? Deflecting to a straw man that has nothing to do with what I said.

I pointed out that money you owe to another is not "yours".

You've tried to argue that means the government owns 100% of your money. That's a complete nonsequitur.

You don't have a response to what I actually said, because at some level, you know I'm right, you're just incapable of admitting it. Money you owe in taxes is not "yours", any more than the car you're sitting in as it's repossessed is "yours". You not liking the circumstance does not change the reality.

You said it's their money, so I'm calling bullshit on your argument. If it's their money, then let them keep it all.

Just because you don't like your argument being thrown back in your face, doesn't mean I'm going to stop doing it.

Or, if you want to try that new tack, then I simply want less of it to be the government's.

Problem solved.

[Endus]

Great, I support your freedom to make that investment.

I'd rather invest in other things.

And Matt Gaetz would rather date 16 year olds.

Why does what you want matter? On what merits are you expecting us to accept your preferences?

Nobody gives a shit that you want a thing. They want you to explain why you want the thing, to convince them as to whether they should want it. Otherwise, you get written off as having an indefensible point of view, like Matt Gaetz' dating history.

[Machismo]

So you are ok with some spending increase?

You really need to pay attention to what I said... a 5-year freeze on spending increases.

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What about taxes? How the fuck are you paying the debt, when we have a deficit? How does that math work?



Because national debt, is nothing like a credit card. The fact you ask this, just shows your entire diatribe is from ignorance.

Fuck it.... here is something for you to virtue signal around, without saying a damn logical thing... what is the difference between individual credit card debt and national debt? A proud individualist, who isn’t just a reactionary virtue signaling, should know the difference...

You are the one who asked how it gets paid back, and I told you.

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And Matt Gaetz would rather date 16 year olds.

Why does what you want matter? On what merits are you expecting us to accept your preferences?

Nobody gives a shit that you want a thing. They want you to explain why you want the thing, to convince them as to whether they should want it. Otherwise, you get written off as having an indefensible point of view, like Matt Gaetz' dating history.

Thanks for admitting what I've been saying all along, you people don't give a shit about liberty. You just want to use someone else's money to pay for the shit you want.

[Endus]

You said it's their money, so I'm calling bullshit on your argument. If it's their money, then let them keep it all.

That's not "calling bullshit". I said you owe your tax obligations to the government; those obligations are "their money". That doesn't mean your tax burden is 100%; that's the straw man you've invented.

Just because you don't like your argument being thrown back in your face, doesn't mean I'm going to stop doing it.

Not my argument. Just an irrelevant straw man.

Or, if you want to try that new tack, then I simply want less of it to be the government's.

Problem solved.

See above; Matt Gaetz wants to date 16 year olds. Why should we give a shit? What you want doesn't matter, unless you can convince other people they should want it too.

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Thanks for admitting what I've been saying all along, you people don't give a shit about liberty. You just want to use someone else's money to pay for the shit you want.

Literally didn't say that. But keep digging the hole. Sorry that asking you to explain and justify yourself was too much to ask.

[Machismo]

That's not "calling bullshit". I said you owe your tax obligations to the government; those obligations are "their money". That doesn't mean your tax burden is 100%; that's the straw man you've invented.



Not my argument. Just an irrelevant straw man.



See above; Matt Gaetz wants to date 16 year olds. Why should we give a shit? What you want doesn't matter, unless you can convince other people they should want it too.

To put it in a way you can understand. I want less of it to be the government's

Now you don't get to bitch and moan about some illusionary straw man.

[Endus]

To put it in a way you can understand. I want less of it to be the government's

Now you don't get to bitch and moan about some illusionary straw man.

I understand you want that. The same way I understand that Matt Gaetz wants to date minors.

What I'm asking is that you convince me, or anyone else really, that your position is worth considering, on some level of objective merit. "But I want it" is a toddler's demand, not an rational argument.

[Machismo]

I understand you want that. The same way I understand that Matt Gaetz wants to date minors.

What I'm asking is that you convince me, or anyone else really, that your position is worth considering, on some level of objective merit. "But I want it" is a toddler's demand, not an rational argument.

So, lower taxes.

You fail to understand, I'm not trying to convince you. I think you know the rest.

[Endus]

So, lower taxes.

Pointing at the toy on the shelf and saying that's what you want is not an argument.

Everyone knows what you want. What you've never been clear or consistent about is why you want it, why you think it would be better for everyone.

[Ivanstone]

Great, I support your freedom to make that investment.

I'd rather invest in other things.

Are you 100% sure you have no investments in any form of government bond? If you do, will you get rid of them?

[Machismo]

Pointing at the toy on the shelf and saying that's what you want is not an argument.

So, lower taxes.

More liberty, more freedom to buy what you want, and less government involvement.

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Are you 100% sure you have no investments in any form of government bond? If you do, will you get rid of them?

Did I make such a claim?

This was about freedom to choose what you invest in.

[Endus]

So, lower taxes.

More liberty, more freedom to buy what you want, and less government involvement.

Again, you're pointing to what you want.

Not explaining why it's a good thing that everyone should want.

Try making an argument rather than just repeating your demands over and over.

[Machismo]

Again, you're pointing to what you want.

Not explaining why it's a good thing that everyone should want.

Try making an argument rather than just repeating your demands over and over.

Those are what you get in return. That's the offer. Why don't you want those things?

So, lower taxes.

[Ivanstone]

Did I make such a claim?

This was about freedom to choose what you invest in.

Yeah but owning government debt means you're part of the problem. If you do have some, that means it must be a sound investment. We know you do your homework because you're willing to sacrifice personal liberty to deal with minutiae.

[Felya]

You are the one who asked how it gets paid back, and I told you.

I asked no such thing:

What if I tell people who weren’t born, when people were saying this shit 40 years ago? What impact has national debt had on you?

To which you respond with... taxes? You are arguing both now... that you are paying the debt with your taxes, despite a deficit that future generations will have to pay? You are virtue signaling both? Really?

Buddy... when people were saying 40 years ago, that the debt would be a catastrophe for future generations, they were wrong. Because you still benefit from the growing debt. You are the beneficiary of having taxes, lower than the spending and you are the future generation, when this rhetoric started.

Want to virtue signal your reactionary nonsense? How about instead of asking me for my credit card... you go ahead and pay additional taxes, to cover your part of the deficit. That way, you at least won’t be one of the mooches, leading to this unknown doomsday that has now spent multiple generations benefiting. You have a solution, at least as an individual... but, you just add to their burden...

[Endus]

Those are what you get in return. That's the offer. Why don't you want those things?

So, lower taxes.

You're already not getting what you want. You're the one demanding change. If you can't convince others you're right, you're just never gonna ever get the change you want. You're just stamping your foot and demanding everyone do what you want, or you'll hold your breath REAL hard. Okay? Go nuts then. You've given nobody any reason to care about what you want.

[Machismo]

Yeah but owning government debt means you're part of the problem. If you do have some, that means it must be a sound investment. We know you do your homework because you're willing to sacrifice personal liberty to deal with minutiae.

Not really. That's like saying you plan on capitalizing on people making bad decisions makes you part of the problem. No, that means you saw the problem, and chose to capitalize. It's why I bough property during the housing crisis.

I'm the one supporting personal liberty in this equation.

[Mayhem]

You really need to pay attention to what I said... a 5-year freeze on spending increases.

Is spending more to keep up with inflation, not an increase? Or is your freeze actually a decrease, because the government would need to cut spending here and there thanks to inflation.

Also, did you ignore the bit where debt is a pillar of capitalism? I thought you were pro capitalism not trying to bring it down. The entire banking sector would like to have a word with you.

[Machismo]

You're already not getting what you want. You're the one demanding change. If you can't convince others you're right, you're just never gonna ever get the change you want. You're just stamping your foot and demanding everyone do what you want, or you'll hold your breath REAL hard. Okay? Go nuts then. You've given nobody any reason to care about what you want.

Nah, I'm not the guy using the government to force things, that's you.

the offer is more liberty, more freedom to spend your own money, and less government intervention.

You clearly despise those things.

[Ivanstone]

Not really. That's like saying you plan on capitalizing on people making bad decisions makes you part of the problem. No, that means you saw the problem, and chose to capitalize. It's why I bough property during the housing crisis.

I'm the one supporting personal liberty in this equation.

Ok. You're willing to capitalize on the pain and suffering of others. Not really shocked by this. Did you buy some of that depressed Flint property? We know they're going to get fresh new plumbing.

[Machismo]

Is spending more to keep up with inflation, not an increase? Or is your freeze actually a decrease, because the government would need to cut spending here and there thanks to inflation.

Also, did you ignore the bit where debt is a pillar of capitalism? I thought you were pro capitalism not trying to bring it down. The entire banking sector would like to have a word with you.

It's really not that complicated, just go by what I said, and not what you wished I had said. Nope. They get the same amount of money to spend for 5 straight years. The exact same dollar amount.