Do most people like the troll or night elf civilizations more? Which do you prefer?

[OwenBurton]

Both the trolls and night elves are two of the most ancient and renowned civilizations in the World of Warcraft universe - they have definitely shaped its history in both positive and negative ways, and have established massive empires and nation-states as old as 15,000 years ago. They are both possessing a glorious, proud heritage and an immensely rich and sophisticated culture - and they are among the two most popular races currently.

I personally think the trolls were given a very interesting and well-developed, complicated, multi-layered story the last expansion, with lots of fascinating and popular new characters (such as Zappy Boi), whereas the night elves have honestly not quite been treated to the best story by Blizzard, I don't think they got one new major character the last expansion for example, and even the Darkshore warfront seemed very average at best in comparison. The trolls have recently gained almost everything - while the night elves and their people have lost nearly everything in turn. If they fought again today...I fear the night elves would likely not win in their battle, as they did over 10,000 years ago.

Which of the two peoples and civilizations do you prefer, if you had to choose between them, and why? What do you love most about them, and what do you dislike about them? Which do you personally admire and respect, and which do you think has contributed more to the greater good of Azeroth and its peoples?

[Beloren]

Troll = interesting
Night elf = epic

[sam86]

pre-wow or post wow?
pre-wow nelf, they were way more interesting
post-wow: they exist just to show how amazing humans are, specially anime boy king teaching someone who fucking waited 10k years about patience
so currently trolls, yeah they exist to be turned to a dungeon and/or raid every exp, but at least they do something beside sucking humans dicks

[Sorrowseer]

In total, neither, if I had to choose, Night Elf, my issues with trolls is one wth the herd in its entirety and how its functioning in the lore and in game, which is not the topic here, so yeah haha.

[Beloren]

Night elves were epic - everything from WC3 to WotA novels. classic was a hold your breadth, how are they going to be developed?

And what we got was very disappointing.


Trolls were basically a massive story to set up raids agianst scary monster type people. But you could play them and they kinda had a cool edge to them. Eventually they got popular enough we saw them at their very best.

but very best night elf vs very best Troll, night elf wins EVERY DAMN time for me. Even though they're rubbish now.

[Zuben]

As much as I was impressed by Zul'drak and Dazar'Alor there's no beating Suramar, an honest take on what a highborne city is supposed to be. I was very surprised to see Blizz actually go for such a massive undertaking, considering their usual m.o. is to scale them down by a lot. Questing in Suramar, especially as I was tailing somebody or jumping on the rooftops to reach hidden treasures made me yearn for a elvish fantasy version of Assassin's Creed.

I should note my taste for elves is limited to the urban ones, highborne, nightborne and high/blood elves. Night elves of the tree-hugging variety aren't that interesting. Void elves are just silly.

[Soon-TM]

NEs looked promising in WC3/Vanilla, but later down the road they became just pathetic - especially after Cata, and now they are just SW humans with long ears. Now, unlike NEs, Trolls have managed to retain their charm, so Trolls all the way baby :3

[ravenmoon]

As much as I was impressed by Zul'drak and Dazar'Alor there's no beating Suramar, an honest take on what a highborne city is supposed to be. I was very surprised to see Blizz actually go for such a massive undertaking, considering their usual m.o. is to scale them down by a lot. Questing in Suramar, especially as I was tailing somebody or jumping on the rooftops to reach hidden treasures made me yearn for a elvish fantasy version of Assassin's Creed.

I should note my taste for elves is limited to the urban ones, highborne, nightborne and high/blood elves. Night elves of the tree-hugging variety aren't that interesting. Void elves are just silly.

I liked the courage and epic consistency of the forest variety night elves - the way I saw the story, is these people - had given up on something very precious to their core (i.e. arcane magic they had an affinity for) and all the incredible conveniences of life, society and the building up of it, in order to prevent the Legion's return.

Although it turned out they were wrong about it, the fact that they did it because they earnestly believed it so .. was what makes me really like them. You see I don't view them as backward or primitive at all, I view them as having made a choice they felt necessary for the good of all, looking beyond themselves. The way the lore described their civilization was phenomenal, they could have rebuilt it with Illidan's offer. Even though they got him wrong too, it took enormous strength of character, of an epic proportion to stay the cause. They didn't devolve, forget society, forget intelligence or progress, they lay it aside for a more urgent task that would benefit the world. In many respect, working with dragons, demi gods and others would have increased their knowledge and mind, not diminished, they just didn't build cities that could display their ancient or current knowledge. Besides the druids amongst their people took to the beauty in nature rather than that in things made by hands.. but as much as they did, you must remember many non druids like the priests would still have preferred their ornate temples (testaments to their goddess) and cities - so for these, it was a 10,000 year long sacrifice, and that was very admirable. Which is why their poor treatment in wow expansions use to irritate me so much.

I don't view druidism as the purview of savages and primitives, but rather like your high society monk, who puts off the distractions of a fast paced life and instead wears the cloak of humility as he wants to focus on the true beauty and majesty of his surroundings, rather what elf kind has accomplished and could do. his is a unique calling i can entirely respect. I always viewed Malfurion and the Moonguard sorcerers that took up druidism as advanced highly intelligent magical experts that instead dedicated their lives to nature because using the arcane was no longer an option. Both the soul and body of their people and their world needed healing.

I also like the priestesses for their leadership during that time, they kept the identity of the kaldorei intact, which is why these elves do not evolve into nature elves or rename themselves. The priesthood keeps the identity of the kaldorei alive despite the massive shift that the absence of arcane practice causes for their daily lives.

I recognise that it was the practice of arcane that went, not the arcane itself, because the Well of Eternity was there throughout the period and they created many many Moonwells which they made use of their physical magical properties if not their power for spells. Ample evidence that arcane energy/magic was something they were constantly surrounded with. but unlike the high elves, they didn't use it's spell power potential to restore themselves for a long long long long time.

While druidism is a calling and way of life for some night elves that would continence and should continue regardless, i have never felt that the intention was for the entire night elven peoples to remain in that long vigil state. Druids will continue to be their thing, but post WC3, the long vigil ends, and I very much looked forward for the night elves recreating the wonders their lore described as their society could now embrace the arcane once more, but with the advantage of the wisdom and balance of nature. This in theory I felt would allow them to become the best they had ever been in their two eras... pre-sundering and long vigil, arcane and nature, civilization and rural wild forest life side by side, combining the strengths of both eras, and because they balance each other so well, they actually knock out their weaknesses. Afterall, wasn't the arcane's weakness an addiction that leads to imbalance? well nature actually is the solution for that, and nature itself is quite vulnerable to magical threats and corruption like the Nightmare and fel magic show, something the arcane, which bolsters nature is great at counteracting.

They made the night elf civilization sound amazing minus the pride that took over the Highborne in the past, but 10,000 years on, after all the wars, and revelations, especially after what we are told and saw the Shen'dralar and Nightborne go through to come clean, they really could actually be the best they've ever been yet.

To me, this was an exciting prospect because let's face it, the night elf tory is full of hardship and suffering for the last 10,000 years, and WC3, then Legion, then BFA has been utterly brutal on the race, to me this felt like they were due to actually turn out the best they've ever been, after all that. Those hardships have forged the most powerful fel users in demon hunters - whose just cause is a check in itself to the power lust and seduction of their force they wield, it has reforged druids into more than nature scholars and restores, but elite fighters against impossible odds, the sentinels and hunters that survived the war of thorns are also honed to the toughest of standards now with the augmented night warrior power. Finally even the arcane scholars and wonder making Shen'dralar have also been able to turn their keen mind and skills to battle, with the Moonguard and Farondis we saw in display, they truly together could be incredible.


Multi diverse, varied, full of struggles - like addiction, how do you cope with your thirst for improving and increasing power leading to the destruction of the thing you held most precious, and wanted to make the best, your world? The revelations of the legion, the sacrifice of magic turning out to not quite being necessary. there is so much they've packed in their story, it's easily more fascinating than the trolls.

It is both more interesting and more EPIC by a long shot, i mean the world split due to the actions of the night elves, and it's been saved twice two from the legion by their intervention. You don't get more epic than that for a race. they have both a much higher standard of civilization and simplicity than the trolls do. they have a full range of complexity from seriously lawfully good benevolent types, to outright downright evil power hungry types, but their overall position is heroic good, unlike the trolls that are mostly evil when we meet them.

So Night elves win hands down for me.

- - - Updated - - -

To me the best of the night elves is the character and attitude of the long vigil kaldorei, the civilization and accomplishments of the pre-sundering era kaldorei combined.. I also liked the unique Star and moon focus, gave it bigger more epic, more magical fantasy, that was quite unique amongst elves. Most elf fantasies don't go to the stars and moon, it sort of made the night elves feel more advanced too, but definitely more unique.. the silver glowing eyes were a very nice touch, alas, shortly after wards, it was considered so cool, nearly every race after got them. It use to be a symbol of having great magical power within, now it's just something that happens when most races use magic.

All the little things that point to the power of the night elves have largely been either ignored, retconned or rendered of little value. It's an all round nerf which has greatly cheapened their story... and it's baffling, it's like something that was extremely popular, you just decide to gut and nerf.. then wonder why it's no longer that popular anymore.

As a fan you also feel a bit cheated, because you were sold a lie, they were presented one way, at first, so you fall in love with them and take their side, and then every good feature was heavily nerfed, reversed or recast into something far less impressive. I would never forgive them for this and will never surrender my affection to night elves or any blizzard creation. They do this so regularly, you simply don't consider anything they write as having any long term value - but then it's a stark reminder that this isn't real, and actually it has no value at all, and never did, but they shoot themselves in the foot, reminding you in the most immersion breaking ways due to their sloppiness in tying things together and presenting them consistently as they leap from expansion to expansion.

People like me can't let themselves continue to really get into this because of that.

[geco]

With the current lore. The Kaldorei beat the Horde and Alliance together.

If we make a list of "important characters" half are elves.

[OwenBurton]

With the current lore. The Kaldorei beat the Horde and Alliance together.

If we make a list of "important characters" half are elves.

Perhaps in the past, they were strong enough to fight the Alliance and the Horde. But as they are today? You prefer the kaldorei in their current state? I thought most night elf fans were enraged...some insisted they quit their subscriptions because of the controversial treatment the night elves have received after Teldrassil (for example, Tyrande got her revenge, the Night Warrior ending, etc.)

[Super Dickmann]

In terms of just the specific playable races, the Night Elves are much more interesting than the Darkspear who'll always be burdened by being the trolls that have left behind the most of their trollishness. Not to say the Darkspear are all bad or boring, they're fine too and Vol'jin's out of game stories have all uniformly been excellent while I can't think of a single night elf-related sidestory where the characters got a nice shake, just that the night elves have more going for them even after all their hangups.

If it's about the whole adjacent civilization though there's no contest, the Zandalari cast alone is more varied and fleshed out than the entire Horde Council combined and makes leagues more sense. If anything, they're too much so for the story's own good, because they essentially make the Darkspear obsolete. Hell, the Zandalari story also does everything the WoW Night Elves did better. Things ditched from the Night Elves in the name of neutral content like their ties to Ancients is done in more detail with the individual loa which are all distinct and aren't made all inclusive and bland, clashing both with each other and with outside powers. Rather than being off-screen and never addressed the way the Night Elf accession to the Alliance was, the pride of a civilization that once ruled the world being forced to become part of the factions, how it copes with that and what gets it to that point is core to the Zandalari. Even the idea of an offshoot practicing something weird is done better precisely by not being a big deal - instead of night elf mages upending civilization, the Zandalari's take on the Elune worshipers is a strange, fringe group off doing its own thing.

This is without even bringing in all other troll kingdoms who all manage to be distinct but still sell you on the race's vibe no matter if it's Gurubashi, Farraki or Amani. Zul'jin's vendetta alone is more interesting than the entire Night Elf off-shoot groups like the Nightborne, those Azsuna ghosts or Eldre'thalas and this despite his death being ordered by a meme character who wanted his loot.

[De Lupe]

Since Elves ARE Trolls in the Warcraft universe, then each of the Elven houses are just different branches of Trolls like the Sandfury or the Zandalari or the Darkspear. It's no different than the Jinyu; they may be shaped differently, but they are still Murlocs at their core. If you pay attention, you can even see the mirrored aspects of their cultures like the Loa = Wild Gods or the heavy emphasis on religion.

Sooooo, I guess I prefer Trolls.

[ravenmoon]

Since Elves ARE Trolls in the Warcraft universe, then each of the Elven houses are just different branches of Trolls like the Sandfury or the Zandalari or the Darkspear. It's no different than the Jinyu; they may be shaped differently, but they are still Murlocs at their core. If you pay attention, you can even see the mirrored aspects of their cultures like the Loa = Wild Gods or the heavy emphasis on religion.

Sooooo, I guess I prefer Trolls.

No they are not, it's a different race, the look, shape, skeletal structure, disposition, everything is different. They have a different name too. They even tell you how trolls became elves, it doesn't mean that elves are troll.

So because humans came from Vrykul or apes, does that mean they're vrykul or apes? No.

Because you came from your mother's womb, does that mean you are your mother?

[Moonrage]

Since Elves ARE Trolls in the Warcraft universe, then each of the Elven houses are just different branches of Trolls like the Sandfury or the Zandalari or the Darkspear. It's no different than the Jinyu; they may be shaped differently, but they are still Murlocs at their core. If you pay attention, you can even see the mirrored aspects of their cultures like the Loa = Wild Gods or the heavy emphasis on religion.

Sooooo, I guess I prefer Trolls.

This is like saying humans are still apes because we share a common ancestor with chimpanzees.

[Powerogue]

I'm biased due to starting as a night elf, but the trolls got some sick jams.



Ooooweoooweooooo...

[Amathricus]

This was pretty much my thought. Suramar is incredible. I like Night Elf more than Troll, but I appreciate the Troll's architecture as well. I've always been more about the elves in general anyway (in any fantasy setting). Magical lore, connection with forests (Teldrassil) etc.

[Icelin]

They did a great job on both zones. Some people complain that Shadowlands feels too alien, (in a sense) but I find it a relief we get to explore new places. I think they could've had more fun with the another dimension aspect but that's just a nitpick.

*insert meme: When you rub your eyes too hard and get transported to another dimension *

We Had a lot of Ancient Elf ruins and troll atmosphere in BFA. I honestly was a tad disappointed with Nazjatar but I have said that several times.(Specified a lot of the stuff I thought was mediocre) Overall it was a really stellar zone still and a lot of things that I did enjoy about it.

I know this might make me come across as a bit of a hypocrite, because I been rooting for Azeroth to make a comeback lately. Still if they did the right things there and make it seem different enough it would be a fun time. Like I seen people cracking jokes of coming back and Tirisfal Glades be overrun by the Scarlets. Or the maybe anything to do with Tyr's Fall. What about the enchanted faes and the dragons drawn to that place? What about Lor'themar x Thalyssra canoodling and tap into the leylines near Silvermoon. Silvermoon remodel and northern EK remodel inc. What about everyone talking about Azuremyst isle lately and what if Velen assisted the NEs? The islands have drifted closer together and they have combined and created a beautiful amethyst tree island. That you can tower the beautiful trees (which I love that aspect in several different zones) Kalidmor remodel inc. Flying for all zones now. What about remodel on the lower ends too? Goldshire update inc. I am just personally tired of ruined elf architecture and trolls. They got a lot of TLC in BFA already. I want updated not ruins. (One of my irks about Naz. I mean for living there for so long....) Anyways it is always fun to go to new places too so either way...

[Araya]

No they are not, it's a different race, the look, shape, skeletal structure, disposition, everything is different. They have a different name too. They even tell you how trolls became elves, it doesn't mean that elves are troll.

So because humans came from Vrykul or apes, does that mean they're vrykul or apes? No.

Because you came from your mother's womb, does that mean you are your mother?

Night Elves evolved from Dark Trolls that settled near the Well of Eternity. All Elf sub races spawned from the Night Elves and before them were Dark Trolls.

[Maljinwo]

Pre-Colombian culture and architecture is great

mutant trolls calling themselves elves and becoming generic forest bowmen living in trees are boring

[Super Kami Dende]

I like them for different reasons. Nelves have that Ancient Mystical feel. Trolls have that Ancient Empire feel.