Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

fucking bonkers

And they let him win the first time?

I agree about the mindset. If you say everything good was because Trump did it, and everything bad is because someone stopped Trump, (a) you're admitting Trump is a wussy powerless mewling little girl and/or (b) you're substituting evidence and logic for faith, normally reserved for worship and suicide cults.

[Edge-]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1874272.html

So...I guess some Trump folks like Conway and Miller picked second floor offices...specifically to put a barrier between them an Trump.

How is the second floor a barrier, you reasonably ask?

It's not, usually. But apparently the operating wisdom was that Trump, a notoriously unfit man who believes in the human battery theory, would be disinclined to climb a single flight of stairs to go bother one of his staffers. And apparently it may have been entirely accurate as a forthcoming book claims he never climbed those stairs.

I'm not entirely sold on this, we all know Trump hates moving but we've seen him go up/down the stairs to Air Force One on multiple occasions, so we know he can actually walk up stairs. But we also know he has some balance issues, which we've seen at times like when he struggled to go down a mild decline in a ramp. So...anyone's guess, believe it or not, it doesn't matter.

But I believe it, because it seems reasonable given the available information and, more importantly, it's fucking hilarious.

[Katchii]

And they let him win the first time?

I agree about the mindset. If you say everything good was because Trump did it, and everything bad is because someone stopped Trump, (a) you're admitting Trump is a wussy powerless mewling little girl and/or (b) you're substituting evidence and logic for faith, normally reserved for worship and suicide cults.

I'm aware, neither is redeeming for Trump. The problem is not Trump anymore. The fact that people exist that are able to vote, and therefore impact how we run this country, that believe this stuff is what terrifies me. Trump was just a symptom of a MUCH larger problem, that I'm not sure will ever go away because the kind of people that believe and propagate this stuff will always exist....because in general, people are fucking stupid.

This is just me thinking out loud here.....I don't believe in thought police (or something similar), in principal, but things like this seriously make me question whether it would actually be beneficial in very specific situations. Like, don't take away anyone's right to HAVE an opinion or make their own decisions regarding it, but you're not allowed to spread objectively false information and cause a panic because honestly, some people are just stupid and will believe it which is what we don't want. To me it's the same as yelling "FIRE!" or "BOMB!" (when there isn't one) in a crowd to incite a panic/ riot, you're not allowed to do THAT (it's literally illegal) because it creates an immediate threat to health and safety...why isn't the intentional spread of misinformation not treated the same way? Is it because the threat to safety and health isn't immediate or can't be explicitly quantified? It's a much more wide spread effect with much greater impact to health and safety, yet it's protected by the First Amendment....

[Benggaul]

Monday's report:

10,754 new cases; a couple hundred more than last Monday.

Top 5:

Fuck Florida.
California: 1,537 new cases; 7 deaths
Louisiana: 942 new cases; 5 deaths
Texas: 917 new cases; 4 deaths
New York: 475 new cases; 16 deaths

As per usual Monday's numbers are lower than reality thanks to the weekend but are still useful in painting a picture. California's numbers are rising a bit, though still relatively slowly compared to Missouri for example. Texas also posted several hundred more than their previous Monday total and will likely be heading towards 2k as the week progresses. The vaccination numbers give a more clear picture as to which states are better or worse off with California at over 61% of their entire population having at least one dose whereas only 53% of Florida and 48% of Texas have one dose. Vermont continues to lead the nation with over 74% of their entire population having had at least one dose with 65% fully vaccinated. Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, Oklahoma, Missouri and Arkansas are all listed as "High" risk, Maryland, Massachusetts and Vermont are listed as "Low". The rest of the country sits at "medium".

137 deaths is about 100 fewer than last Monday and brings the total to 619,595. Florida, Colorado and New York top the chart with no other states listing deaths in the double-digits, though I do of course expect that to change as the week unfolds. The 7-day average is now under 300.

Related news:

US coronavirus: The Delta variant will cause 'very dense outbreaks' in these five states, expert says--The TL;DR of it is that it's rural areas with low vaccination rates and low prior infections and the lowest rates in the country are Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi and Wyoming. We're already seeing it with some of these.

Moderna says COVID-19 vaccine performed well in a lab against delta variant--Good news, and good news for me personally as this is the one I got. Hopefully it'll also hold up against Delta Plus.

Stay safe, folks.

[cubby]

I'm aware, neither is redeeming for Trump. The problem is not Trump anymore. The fact that people exist that are able to vote, and therefore impact how we run this country, that believe this stuff is what terrifies me. Trump was just a symptom of a MUCH larger problem, that I'm not sure will ever go away because the kind of people that believe and propagate this stuff will always exist....because in general, people are fucking stupid.

This is just me thinking out loud here.....I don't believe in thought police (or something similar), in principal, but things like this seriously make me question whether it would actually be beneficial in very specific situations. Like, don't take away anyone's right to HAVE an opinion or make their own decisions regarding it, but you're not allowed to spread objectively false information and cause a panic because honestly, some people are just stupid and will believe it which is what we don't want. To me it's the same as yelling "FIRE!" or "BOMB!" (when there isn't one) in a crowd to incite a panic/ riot, you're not allowed to do THAT (it's literally illegal) because it creates an immediate threat to health and safety...why isn't the intentional spread of misinformation not treated the same way? Is it because the threat to safety and health isn't immediate or can't be explicitly quantified? It's a much more wide spread effect with much greater impact to health and safety, yet it's protected by the First Amendment....

The line you'd have to draw in attempting to prevent "the spread of misinformation" would be nearly impossible. And then having the court rule on it, would push it past the point of feasibility.

That being said, I could not agree more with you. I fear we're entering the Post-Fact Era (Neil Stephenson). The internet has been described as a tool where you get out of it what is put into it, and at this point basically shit is being shoveled in faster than anyone really understands. At some point rudimentary AI tools will be in place to feed people their chosen beliefs, irrespective of facts/reality, and then echo-chambers will be a permanent state of media-input for most people. Especially those that society would benefit more from having those Thought Police affecting.

[Breccia]

I don't believe in thought police

Indeed, the "problem" (that's mostly sarcasm) with voting is, you can vote for whoever, for whatever reason. Nobody can stop you.

Until someone can steal the spotlight from Trump -- or Trump dies, goes to prison, or we find out Melania had an abortion, and therefore steps out of the spotlight -- people can and will vote for him based on conspiracy theories, lies, intentional ill-informed, or for being horrifyingly racist. And we can't, and won't, stop them. We just need to outnumber them until they're distracted by someone else jangling car keys, but with a sound fiscal policy.

[Edge-]

https://www.businessinsider.com/kris...onation-2021-6

Yo uh...why is SD sending privately funded NG members to the boarder? I get it, Republican governors are circling the wagons and sending troops to support Abbott in Texas, but...privately funded? Is the NG now the semi-private army of wealthy political donors now?

[Breccia]

Is the NG now the semi-private army of wealthy political donors now?

I'm confident that Biden can yank them back if they're caught doing something improper.

[Twdft]

...why isn't the intentional spread of misinformation not treated the same way? Is it because the threat to safety and health isn't immediate or can't be explicitly quantified? It's a much more wide spread effect with much greater impact to health and safety, yet it's protected by the First Amendment....

The answer is not to outlaw opinions but to educate people about why those opinions are bad.

[Breccia]

NBC 15 News has learned an event featuring former President Donald Trump as the keynote speaker that was being planned for this Saturday at the USS Alabama Battleship Memorial Park was nixed after park commissioners became wary.

Hmm.

“After the request was made, then there was contact with the Republican Party, they contacted us and then it became apparent that it was going to be a partisan political event, rather than just a patriotic event planned for that evening,” commission chairman Bill Tunnell.

Tunnell says commissioners sought an opinion from the attorney general's office in late May. NBC 15 News obtained Attorney General Steve Marshall’s response which stated there was little time for a formal opinion to be rendered but did note the park may be used for political events provided access is "available for all political parties and candidates on an equal basis." The state park has been used for political events previously. In 2012, presidential hopeful Rick Santorum used the park for a rally.

“Rick Santorum was the, was the straw that broke the camel's back. And that's when the commission went to the no partisan politics open to the public,” said Tunnell.

Alabama just canceled a Trump rally. That's...interesting.

[Edge-]

Alabama just canceled a Trump rally. That's...interesting.

#CancelAlabama

Weird that Trump has to try to sneak his way onto stages nowadays. Isn't he holding some rallies or something where he doesn't need to try to sneak on stage?

[Katchii]

Indeed, the "problem" (that's mostly sarcasm) with voting is, you can vote for whoever, for whatever reason. Nobody can stop you.

Until someone can steal the spotlight from Trump -- or Trump dies, goes to prison, or we find out Melania had an abortion, and therefore steps out of the spotlight -- people can and will vote for him based on conspiracy theories, lies, intentional ill-informed, or for being horrifyingly racist. And we can't, and won't, stop them. We just need to outnumber them until they're distracted by someone else jangling car keys, but with a sound fiscal policy.

Exactly. What terrifies me though is that they'll only pay attention to people who "jangle their keys" if they're the right people. Anyone that hasn't been identified as being on their side, or who shows even a tiny hint of being even slightly against their chosen leaders are "the enemy" and will never be listened to or given any time of day to say anything.

- - - Updated - - -

The answer is not to outlaw opinions but to educate people about why those opinions are bad.

If you honestly think this will work, you haven't been paying attention the last 4 years, with special consideration for 2020 specifically.

I won't disparage anyone from trying, but this is a uphill battle that will never be won because you're fighting against the people that don't CARE about what is good or bad, right or wrong. It would be like trying to bail water out of a boat that has a hole in it, with people on the boat actively poking more holes in it to help let some of the water out....

[Fugus]

No better place to put this than here, even though it is more a tangent.

"Leaked neo-Confederate group membership reveals VIPs, military officers, elected officials are part of group"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...itary-officers

[beanman12345]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1874272.html

So...I guess some Trump folks like Conway and Miller picked second floor offices...specifically to put a barrier between them an Trump.

How is the second floor a barrier, you reasonably ask?

It's not, usually. But apparently the operating wisdom was that Trump, a notoriously unfit man who believes in the human battery theory, would be disinclined to climb a single flight of stairs to go bother one of his staffers. And apparently it may have been entirely accurate as a forthcoming book claims he never climbed those stairs.

I'm not entirely sold on this, we all know Trump hates moving but we've seen him go up/down the stairs to Air Force One on multiple occasions, so we know he can actually walk up stairs. But we also know he has some balance issues, which we've seen at times like when he struggled to go down a mild decline in a ramp. So...anyone's guess, believe it or not, it doesn't matter.

But I believe it, because it seems reasonable given the available information and, more importantly, it's fucking hilarious.

The reason I'm not entirely sold on this is because I bet there is an elevator to those second floor offices considering we had a wheelchair bound president.

But the stair I believe it too, if camera's weren't on him every time he got on and off AF1 he probably would've used a lift.

[Fugus]

The reason I'm not entirely sold on this is because I bet there is an elevator to those second floor offices considering we had a wheelchair bound president.

But the stair I believe it too, if camera's weren't on him every time he got on and off AF1 he probably would've used a lift.

Betting they have an elevator as well, but I also wouldn't put it past Trump as being too lazy to bother looking for it or listen to others if they told him about it. This was a guy who couldn't bother to read reports and needed it kept to something like either 2 or 10 pages being read to him with large pictures and they STILL needed to include his name repeatedly to keep his attention.

Also wouldn't put it past his people to not let him know unless they had to just so they could get away from him.

[Edge-]

The reason I'm not entirely sold on this is because I bet there is an elevator to those second floor offices considering we had a wheelchair bound president.

But the stair I believe it too, if camera's weren't on him every time he got on and off AF1 he probably would've used a lift.

I'm trying to find out if there are elevators in the West Wing and most of what's turning up is elevators in the residence, which makes sense. Best I can figure is that they're there, but it's a long walk to them and from them to the other offices. I imagine mobility is much less of an issue for the POTUS since folks come to you if you want/need something, you don't go to them (usually).

[Bakis]

But the stair I believe it too, if camera's weren't on him every time he got on and off AF1 he probably would've used a lift.

Lucky for him he totally not got small hands instead of feet. That staircase is rather steep.

[Edge-]

https://legis.wisconsin.gov/senate/3...esident-trump/

Mr. President,

One of the most frustrating things to watch during your Presidency was the continued attacks on you from fake news outlets with no accountability to truth. I can’t imagine the frustration you and your family felt. Unfortunately, in our positions of public service, we have to accept the reality that often “truth” in the media is no longer based on facts but simply what one feels like saying.

This leads me to your recent press release stating that I am responsible for holding up a forensic audit of the Wisconsin elections. This could not be further from the truth.

Let me first say that very few people have the honor of being named publicly by a United States President. I never imagined mine would be mentioned, much less in this light, from a President that I have publicly supported, and still support. I feel I need to respond even though you will likely never hear of it, as the power of your pen to mine is like Thor’s hammer to a Bobby pin.

Nevertheless, I need to correct your false claim against me. I never received a call from you or any of your sources asking about the election audit. If you had, I would have told you that long before your press release I called the auditor in charge of the election audit that is taking place in Wisconsin and requested a forensic component to the audit.

Prior to owning several businesses, I was an auditor, so I understand the importance of this being done to determine what took place in the last election. This will help guide us as legislators to put fixes in place for any issues found, and more importantly, to ensure the integrity of elections moving forward. I made specific requests on procedures and locations, both of which I have not, nor will not, disclose. If I am not satisfied with the procedures performed, I will request additional work be done. If anyone illegally attempts to hinder information from being obtained, I will use my subpoena powers to get it.

This leads me back to your press release. It is false, and I don’t appreciate it being done before calling me and finding out the truth. This is what both of us have fought against. Being cut from similar cloth in our backgrounds, and knowing that reparation must always be of more value than the wrong done, I have two requests.

First, I ask that you issue a press release in similar fashion that corrects the information and also encourages people to support what I have requested in the audit. Second, you owe me a round of golf at the club of your choice.

I write this as I am about to board a plane due to a family medical emergency. In addition to my Trump socks, I will pull up my Trump/Pence mask when I board the plane, as required by federal law. I figure, if the liberals are going to force me to wear a mask, I am going to make it as painful for them as possible. I will continue to do this regardless of whether or not I ever hear from you.

Thank you for doing great things as our President.

Respectfully,

Chris Kapenga

Wisconsin Senate President

Man, who wants to give this guy the bad news that Trump is just gonna double down on his lies and not issue him an apology. It's delightful to see sycophants like this bending the knee and smiling while asking Trump to stop filling their mouths with piss.

[DarkTZeratul]

https://legis.wisconsin.gov/senate/3...esident-trump/



Man, who wants to give this guy the bad news that Trump is just gonna double down on his lies and not issue him an apology. It's delightful to see sycophants like this bending the knee and smiling while asking Trump to stop filling their mouths with piss.

"Mr. President, as a proud member of the Face-Eating Leopards Party nothing has given me greater pleasure than to watch the leopards eat the faces of your enemies. That being said, I think there has been some mistake as there is presently a leopard eating my face. I am sure this is just a misunderstanding and would appreciate you correcting this situation. I look forward to seeing more people get their faces eaten by leopards in the future!"

[Edge-]

"Mr. President, as a proud member of the Face-Eating Leopards Party nothing has given me greater pleasure than to watch the leopards eat the faces of your enemies. That being said, I think there has been some mistake as there is presently a leopard eating my face. I am sure this is just a misunderstanding and would appreciate you correcting this situation. I look forward to seeing more people get their faces eaten by leopards in the future!"

I love how he acts surprised that Trump lied about calling him up.

Like...bro, the dude legit lied about calling a foreign head of state, do you think he cares about someone whose name he already forgot after having "rage-press-released" it?