Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Forogil]

It doesn't stop the spread... you are an interesting study of what happens when people are so overcome by fear they begin to blindly take up religious beliefs to invent solutions to their plight.

Being vaccinated has no effect on infection or spread to the point I'm actively unaware of anyone claiming it does.

The vaccines used in the US and EU most certainly stops infection, spread, serious diseases, and deaths.

Stopping infections in a safe way was necessary for emergency use authorization/conditional marketing authorization; but we still have to figure out for how long it lasts.

In the real world Pfizer/BioNTech in Israel found that it stops asymptomatic infections, symptomatic infections, hospitalizations, and deaths with an efficiency above 90%. If you aren't even asymptomatically infected it seems impossible to spread the disease - as you don't shed any viral particles. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...947-8/fulltext

That's also the reason infection rates dropped in Israel after their vaccination - and didn't drop in nearby Lebanon.

It might be that you were confused by some early statements that claimed that they didn't know if the vaccines stopped the spread and thus vaccinated people should continue to follow all the rules. Even if that technically been true at that time it was still deliberately misleading. One goal with mass-vaccinations is herd-immunity through immunization and that relies on the vaccine substantially reducing the spread - as all other vaccines.

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Didn't Bill Maher have the vaccine and still come down with Covid afterwards?

Yes, and asymptomatic infection - so not that problematic. (And found during routine testing of staff - asymptomatic infections are clearly harder to find.)
Maybe it was less severe because of the vaccine (he thinks so) - maybe he was just lucky. Do you want to check if you're lucky?

BTW: Some in the NY Yankees also tested positive after being vaccinated the same week. Maher said that it supports his theory that the virus comes from bats :-)

[Tuor]

The vaccines used in the US and EU most certainly stops infection, spread, serious diseases, and deaths.

Vaccines do NOT stop infection, look at the UK or my country, Portugal, for God's sake the numbers are higher today then they were last year at the peak of the pandemic in April. They do reduce the amount of severe cases and consequently the amount of deaths.

[Forogil]

Vaccines do NOT stop infection, look at the UK or my country, Portugal, for God's sake the numbers are higher today then they were last year at the peak of the pandemic in April. They do reduce the amount of severe cases and consequently the amount of deaths.

Sorry, I meant reduce by perhaps 90% when fully vaccinated (depending on vaccine and variant), not a full stop.

Both Portugal and the uk are well below the previous peaks in terms of reported cases.
Reported cases are difficult to compare over time: if we compare specifically with April last year one problem was that testing was limited - the uk does about 30 times more test now and April last year had a positivity rate of 30-10% - clearly cases were missed back then, it's slowly increasing at the moment, which is concerning, but it is still only 1.8%. Portugal is similar but there's a smaller difference - just 5 times as many tests now, and currently a positivity rate of 3% and increasing - compared to 10-4% April last year.

However, when we see reported cases increase as in Portugal and the uk it's not a good sign, and we see that hospitalization rates are now also increasing in the uk (there's a few weeks lag). I don't know the split between vaccinated persons, partially vaccinated, people who have declined vaccination and people who are in line to be vaccinated.

There's also the issue that the new Delta variant (from India) is more contagious, and possibly different in other ways as well.

[Nellise]

Right... can we see this data by chance? For the past year they have been saying it doesn't stop the spread or infection rate so I imagine this miraculous study must be spread.

This is a rather interesting study I admit. It shows how far you can make people in a bad situation go to blindly accepting solutions it gives a rather shocking insight into pimps.

Your beliefs are so utterly absurd that you somehow make someone moderate who believes the vaccine works for it's intended purpose seem anti vaxx from your utterly absurd stances.

CDC Real-World Study Confirms Protective Benefits of mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines: "A new CDC study provides strong evidence that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective in preventing SARS-CoV-2 infections in real-world conditions among health care personnel, first responders, and other essential workers.....Researchers were able to look for evidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection irrespective of symptoms."

[Omega10]

Sorry, I meant reduce by perhaps 90% when fully vaccinated (depending on vaccine and variant), not a full stop.

Both Portugal and the uk are well below the previous peaks in terms of reported cases.
Reported cases are difficult to compare over time: if we compare specifically with April last year one problem was that testing was limited - the uk does about 30 times more test now and April last year had a positivity rate of 30-10% - clearly cases were missed back then, it's slowly increasing at the moment, which is concerning, but it is still only 1.8%. Portugal is similar but there's a smaller difference - just 5 times as many tests now, and currently a positivity rate of 3% and increasing - compared to 10-4% April last year.

However, when we see reported cases increase as in Portugal and the uk it's not a good sign, and we see that hospitalization rates are now also increasing in the uk (there's a few weeks lag). I don't know the split between vaccinated persons, partially vaccinated, people who have declined vaccination and people who are in line to be vaccinated.

There's also the issue that the new Delta variant (from India) is more contagious, and possibly different in other ways as well.

Dribbles has turned out to be one of the best anti-Brexit voices on this site. He is continuing his work now that Brexit is reality by trashing the UK. Oh, his intention is to support Brexit and the benefits it has bestowed on UK, but he is so incompetent and so off the wall that he completely undermines everything he is trying to support. Not only that, people respond to his trash, and the responses is where most of the value of the Brexit thread resides. I have learned a LOT about EU and UK from the responses to Dribbles.

In the same way, Kraken has done a good job of perfectly making the case for people worldwide to get vaccinated, and to mask up and socially distance EVEN IF YOU HAVE BOTH SHOTS OF THE VACCINE. The vaccines are 90% effective against the original version of the virus, a bit over 80% over current delta mutation, and most likely less against the delta plus mutation.

The vaccines substantially reduce the odds that you will infect others, and substantially reduce the effects you will endure if you get the virus anyways. The odds of getting the virus despite being fully vaccinated are low, but in double digits, and each mutation raises those odds by a noticeable amount.

Kraken should get full credit for these types of posts. If he did not post his trash, then the responses would not have clarified the details of the virus so effectively and so repeatedly.

[Krakan]

How about what I'm guessing is your favorite source of news?

Fox News: COVID-19 vaccines reduce viral load, severity in breakthrough cases, studies find


Honestly, it would behoove you to really do a fucking google search or two before you embarrass yourself like this.

So yes, you can still catch COVID, you can still pass it on, so there's still a risk to people around you, but it's greatly reduced. So get the jab, but then still have some fucking respect for your neighbors.

Or, you know, continue to be a science-denying, head-in-the-sand, danger to society.

Why are you linking me that you can get it , spread it, and be protected from the symptoms as some kind of passive aggressive way of agreeing with me?

You can just say " yes krakan your right I'm sorry."

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Dribbles has turned out to be one of the best anti-Brexit voices on this site. He is continuing his work now that Brexit is reality by trashing the UK. Oh, his intention is to support Brexit and the benefits it has bestowed on UK, but he is so incompetent and so off the wall that he completely undermines everything he is trying to support. Not only that, people respond to his trash, and the responses is where most of the value of the Brexit thread resides. I have learned a LOT about EU and UK from the responses to Dribbles.

In the same way, Kraken has done a good job of perfectly making the case for people worldwide to get vaccinated, and to mask up and socially distance EVEN IF YOU HAVE BOTH SHOTS OF THE VACCINE. The vaccines are 90% effective against the original version of the virus, a bit over 80% over current delta mutation, and most likely less against the delta plus mutation.

The vaccines substantially reduce the odds that you will infect others, and substantially reduce the effects you will endure if you get the virus anyways. The odds of getting the virus despite being fully vaccinated are low, but in double digits, and each mutation raises those odds by a noticeable amount.

Kraken should get full credit for these types of posts. If he did not post his trash, then the responses would not have clarified the details of the virus so effectively and so repeatedly.

Why is everyone so passive aggressive about saying I'm right?

People invent strawman get demolished then try to claim I was only right on every point I beought up.

I'm half assuming these are bait posts now hoping I slip I to insults for an infraction rather poor show.

That 90% also slipped to 60% in the same article in different locations if you did more then skim it.

[PhaelixWW]

It doesn’t stop the spread entirely. It stops it quite a bit, as per the scientific data available.

Right... can we see this data by chance?

<...shows you the data proving that you're wrong...>

You can just say " yes krakan your right I'm sorry."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You are absolutely fucking delusional if: 1) you think you're right, 2) you think that I'm agreeing with you, or 3) you think that I'm sorry for 1 and 2.

Your entire position of "it shouldn't matter if people choose to accept the personal risk of not getting vaccinated" is absolute shit because it's predicated upon the false idea that vaccination has no deleterious effect on the transmissibility of the virus.

You were proven wrong.

That's okay, though. You can just say: "Yes, PhaelixWW, you're right, and I'm sorry."

[Forogil]

That 90% also slipped to 60% in the same article in different locations if you did more then skim it.

There are lots of different studies for different vaccines, variants, and criteria.

I believe the article above showed that it was 60% if you only were partially vaccinated, i.e. one dose of the two-dose vaccines. Not that it slipped to 60% if fully vaccinated.

That is problematic for countries that relied heavily on one-dose, based on the idea that the first dose protected enough - and the second was only needed to make the protection last longer.

For the Delta-variant it's worse it may be as low as 33% for AstraZeneca according to:
https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/fi...-we-still-need

However, two weeks after 2nd dose (i.e. fully vaccinated):
Pfizer/BioNTech (against infection): Original 95%, Alpha 92%, Delta 79%.
Pfizer/BioNTech (against symptomatic): Original 95?%, Alpha 93%, Delta 88%.
AstraZeneca (against symptomatic): Original ? (90%?), Alpha 74% Delta 64%
AstraZeneca (against hospitalization): Delta 92%.

All of the numbers have some margin of error, and they are not fully comparable as the different vaccines were given to different groups, and you don't know if different studies use the exact same criteria for symptomatic infection.
Obviously the fact that a single dose of AZ doesn't protect well against Delta raises the issue that the Janssen (or J&J) vaccine might also struggle - but it seems it actually works. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/01/h...ant/index.html

Or in summary: the FDA/EMA almost-accepted vaccines work when you are fully vaccinated - even against variants (except AZ against Beta - which is the South African variant, Alpha is from Kent, uk, Delta from India). Not perfectly, but quite well.

[Edge-]

You can just say " yes krakan your right I'm sorry."

Why would anyone say this when you've simply proven yourself to be consistently wrong, and then refuse to actually acknowledge that when actual data is presented? I get that you appear to enjoy being wrong, but maybe do it on a topic that's not potentially harmful should any idiot read your post and take the misinformation seriously.

[Nellise]

Why is everyone so passive aggressive about saying I'm right?

People invent strawman get demolished then try to claim I was only right on every point I beought up.

Is there a reason you ignored my post that linked to a study showing mRNA vaccines stopped infections outright? You quoted posts before and after mine.

[Zan15]

It doesn't stop the spread... you are an interesting study of what happens when people are so overcome by fear they begin to blindly take up religious beliefs to invent solutions to their plight.

Being vaccinated has no effect on infection or spread to the point I'm actively unaware of anyone claiming it does.

This is turning into a weird religious battle except the religious are weirdly screaming "trust science ignore the scientific method!"

holy hell 24,000 post and we are back to square one with some people.....

[Graden]

So I got my first dose (Pfizer). I had other options too, like J&J for example, but after some research I decided to go with mRNA vaccines.
My arm hurts a bit but other than that I'm fine. I even managed to go to the gym. Can't wait for my second dose, I want this to be over.

[Krakan]

Why would anyone say this when you've simply proven yourself to be consistently wrong, and then refuse to actually acknowledge that when actual data is presented? I get that you appear to enjoy being wrong, but maybe do it on a topic that's not potentially harmful should any idiot read your post and take the misinformation seriously.

Here is the thing. Proving yourself right here isn't really possible you just continue until the naysayer is banned. Still without drawing out this conversation to far what exactly have I been wrong about?

If it's about the individual risk of covid for people outside the risk age groups over been right.

If it's been about transmission after vaccination I've been right...

It might be more expedient to list the times I've been wrong. Shouting nonsense over and over again or scouring headlines to try and find a technicality isn't disapproving someone.

Even now people are screaming me to acknowledge small test groups with variants of outcomes as wide as 30% of participants as damning evidence... worst if I am even excessively negative towards them and their laughable examples we know as well as I do that I will be ejected from the conversation.

I suppose it begs the question of why post at all but I believe that science shouldn't be wielded the same way religious dogma is.

[beanman12345]

So I got my first dose (Pfizer). I had other options too, like J&J for example, but after some research I decided to go with mRNA vaccines.
My arm hurts a bit but other than that I'm fine. I even managed to go to the gym. Can't wait for my second dose, I want this to be over.

Have you zombified yet? How's the 5G? Anti-vaxxers are the dumbest people on this planet.

[Santti]

Have you zombified yet? How's the 5G? Anti-vaxxers are the dumbest people on this planet.

Did you quote the wrong person?

[beanman12345]

I suppose it begs the question of why post at all but I believe that science shouldn't be wielded the same way religious dogma is.

So this is a religious crusade against science for you than. Well thanks for just admitting that.

[Twdft]

Funniest thing about 'concerned citizens' not wanting a vaccine: they should be advocating for all other measures, masks, distancing etc. Somehow they are against masking up too. So how do they think this will end?

I can understand personally not wanting to get vaccinated, but then they should advocate for everyone else to. Puzzling behaviour.

[Jtbrig7390]

Here is the thing.

No here is the thing, you have been factually wrong every step of the way. I don't know if your trolling or seriously believe what you have been saying. But many posters in this thread has shown you with actual data that you have been wrong.

Your own link has even shown you was wrong in a earlier post.

The problem is like I said I don't know if you actually believe what you are saying or trolling. If its the former then you need to educate yourself and accept you was wrong and if it was the latter then your trolling can actually cause real world harm when people read it.

[Krakan]

Funniest thing about 'concerned citizens' not wanting a vaccine: they should be advocating for all other measures, masks, distancing etc. Somehow they are against masking up too. So how do they think this will end?

I can understand personally not wanting to get vaccinated, but then they should advocate for everyone else to. Puzzling behaviour.

It isn't all that puzzling... for better or worse people are selfish. It's a pain in the ass to keep up with most of the safe guards especially if you know the worst thing that is likely to happen to you is a particularly bad cold.

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No here is the thing, you have been factually wrong every step of the way. I don't know if your trolling or seriously believe what you have been saying. But many posters in this thread has shown you with actual data that you have been wrong.

Your own link has even shown you was wrong in a earlier post.

The problem is like I said I don't know if you actually believe what you are saying or trolling. If its the former then you need to educate yourself and accept you was wrong and if it was the latter then your trolling can actually cause real world harm when people read it.

That isn't how quoting is supposed to work... still it would be nice if they could list the things I've gotten wrong rather then at best try to narrow the question so far that I retroactively become wrong.

I say being vaccinated means you can still spread the virus they link early research showing that 40-10% of cases can be spread after vaccination.

That isn't showing me to be wrong it's grasping at straws in a desperate bid to... I honestly don't even know. Prove someone wrong because having a leveled head is to be frowned on?

[Omega10]

There are lots of different studies for different vaccines, variants, and criteria.

I believe the article above showed that it was 60% if you only were partially vaccinated, i.e. one dose of the two-dose vaccines. Not that it slipped to 60% if fully vaccinated.

That is problematic for countries that relied heavily on one-dose, based on the idea that the first dose protected enough - and the second was only needed to make the protection last longer.

For the Delta-variant it's worse it may be as low as 33% for AstraZeneca according to:
https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/fi...-we-still-need

However, two weeks after 2nd dose (i.e. fully vaccinated):
Pfizer/BioNTech (against infection): Original 95%, Alpha 92%, Delta 79%.
Pfizer/BioNTech (against symptomatic): Original 95?%, Alpha 93%, Delta 88%.
AstraZeneca (against symptomatic): Original ? (90%?), Alpha 74% Delta 64%
AstraZeneca (against hospitalization): Delta 92%.

All of the numbers have some margin of error, and they are not fully comparable as the different vaccines were given to different groups, and you don't know if different studies use the exact same criteria for symptomatic infection.
Obviously the fact that a single dose of AZ doesn't protect well against Delta raises the issue that the Janssen (or J&J) vaccine might also struggle - but it seems it actually works. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/01/h...ant/index.html

Or in summary: the FDA/EMA almost-accepted vaccines work when you are fully vaccinated - even against variants (except AZ against Beta - which is the South African variant, Alpha is from Kent, uk, Delta from India). Not perfectly, but quite well.

For the purpose of providing the exact quote:

Two weeks after receiving a second dose, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine appeared to provide 79% protection against infection with the Delta variant, compared with 92% protection against the Alpha variant, the study found.

Note that I found no numbers in this article for Moderna. From what I recall, Moderna was consistently in the same ballpark as Pfizer.