[TV] The Wheel of Time

[Katchii]

What really irks me is that Brandon Sanderson has stood by the production of this show, despite being one of the biggest fans of the books and the guy selected to finish the series off, which he did fairly well. He's really discredited himself in my eyes by giving this mediocre product that does not at all stay true to the story, the thumbs up. I assume he's getting some sort of kickbacks from Amazon for okaying this pile of fetid crap as a consultant, which just ruins his integrity.

Rafe and Sanderson have both actually gone on record and said that they don't see eye to eye on many of the changes being made, but it's ultimately up to Rafe. The direction the show is going isn't on Sanderson.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...h=4828b9a95f61

https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/whe...es-1235108671/

[Triceron]

I don't understand the people saying, "Hey, they took an existing piece of IP and changed it massively because we aren't necessarily interested in appealing to the fans of that IP." Like, why use existing IP then? Either do Wheel of Time and try to be faithful to the series, or write something else if you think you can do it better.

And comparing it to Marvel is really silly - the world in Marvel is a paper thin layer on top of the modern world. Fantasy is an entire imagined world built from the ground up, the joy is in exploring that world and seeing how an author worked very hard to give it depth and cohesion. The idea that a tv show (which has to work much faster than a writer) can come in and just change a bunch of stuff but still keep that depth and cohesion is really, really far fetched.

It's not different at all, and to understand that fiction is fiction and no rules actually need apply when to bringing things to paper of the big screen is what needs to be considered.

To understand why the changes to the series happened starts with understanding why this series exists in the first place. And let's be real, the execs that greenlit this project aren't uber-fans of book series who want it faithfully adapted in live action. This is just another 'widely recognized and popular fantasy franchise ready and waiting to be exploited' to them. And of course, they don't understand anything about the story or world that needs to be kept in tact because they aren't fans in the first place, they're just making content that already has an established fanbase and doing whatever they can to make more money.

Same reason why Star Wars 7-9 exist as they do. Execs making decisions that completely miss the mark on what fans actually want. And we are simply fortunate that series like Mandalorian still exist, which are actually produced by people who know the importance of the world and of the material and are genuine fans themselves. But let's be real thay not every exec is going to be as fan-friendly as a Feige, Filoni or Favreau in giving us what we actually want.

Wheel of Time has changes because some exec or creative head there thinks the gendered Dragon Reborn can be changed in order to capture a bigger audience. And they managed to convince everyone involved in the creative and executive process that this should be changed, in order to appeal to a wider demographic. We're talking about a commercial product that exists simply to capitalize and exploit this IP to bring in more Amazon Prime subs. It's not because Bezos or his underlings are real big fans of the books and want it properly adapted as a TV series, let's be real here.

[Coniferous]

It's not different at all, and to understand that fiction is fiction and no rules actually need apply when to bringing things to paper of the big screen is what needs to be considered.

To understand why the changes to the series happened starts with understanding why this series exists in the first place. And let's be real, the execs that greenlit this project aren't uber-fans of book series who want it faithfully adapted in live action. This is just another 'widely recognized and popular fantasy franchise ready and waiting to be exploited' to them. And of course, they don't understand anything about the story or world that needs to be kept in tact because they aren't fans in the first place, they're just making content that already has an established fanbase and doing whatever they can to make more money.

Same reason why Star Wars 7-9 exist as they do. Execs making decisions that completely miss the mark on what fans actually want. And we are simply fortunate that series like Mandalorian still exist, which are actually produced by people who know the importance of the world and of the material and are genuine fans themselves. But let's be real thay not every exec is going to be as fan-friendly as a Feige, Filoni or Favreau in giving us what we actually want.

Wheel of Time has changes because some exec or creative head there thinks the gendered Dragon Reborn can be changed in order to capture a bigger audience. And they managed to convince everyone involved in the creative and executive process that this should be changed, in order to appeal to a wider demographic. We're talking about a commercial product that exists simply to capitalize and exploit this IP to bring in more Amazon Prime subs. It's not because Bezos or his underlings are real big fans of the books and want it properly adapted as a TV series, let's be real here.

It's different because it's never going to work for fantasy the way it works for Marvel series, which have very thin plots. People need depth in a fantasy series.

[Surfd]

It's a loose adaptation that simply takes the characters and the overall plot (Dragon Reborn fights Dark One, saves the world) and is pretty much doing anything else in between. What exactly is the difference?

Because then you end up with "Avatar, The Last Air Bender" instead of "Wheel of Time"?

[Triceron]

Because then you end up with "Avatar, The Last Air Bender" instead of "Wheel of Time"?

Which is on par with any TV fantasy series?

Game of Thrones ended up being that same thing. It wasn't close to the books at all if you do a comparison of the series. Same with LOTR being much watered down from the tone of the books, though it has the benefit of better production quality as a movie series.

- - - Updated - - -

It's different because it's never going to work for fantasy the way it works for Marvel series, which have very thin plots. People need depth in a fantasy series.

Book fans want depth. 'People' just need a basic understanding of the world and are happy to take things as is from there forward.

Story depth is not why Game of Thrones and LOTR ended up being as popular as they are, considering the original source material still has WAY more depth than anything we actually got on screen. This same logic can be applied to any science fiction universe that also 'needs depth'. No, it doesn't really, it just needs to establish some basic rules to the world and most science fiction works fine even without Dune levels of world building. GOT had a viral spread for being a great series that also had the benefit of 'tits and dragons', LOTR had a much softer outlook of Middle Earth that appealed to a much broader audience than being the much darker/serious tone that say the Rankin Bass animated series had. These aren't true-to-the-book adaptations at all, and they still worked without the depth that was in the books.

Any actual book reader could have plenty to say about how these fantasy adaptations actually left out the necessary depth and world building that continues to make the books regarded as better than its film counterparts, and that doesn't actually make the films as 'poor adaptations' just because they lack the depth of the books.

LoTR films are actually not all that deep if you really think about it.

[Surfd]

Which is on par with any TV fantasy series?

Right, but the point is, as a fan of the books, we don't want "any TV fantasy series". We want "Wheel of Time". And we aren't getting it. Instead, we are getting "Vaguely inspired by some of the ideas that Wheel of Time touched on". Which isn't good enough.

I mean, this is especially bad when you consider how the books were written and Jordan's narrative style. As someone on another forum I am on quipped while discussing the series: "when 1 page out of 6 deals with character development and plot while 5 out of 6 describe the surroundings it should be much easier to adapt to a movie. Think of it as a 3k page story with 10k pages of instructions for directors, set builders and costume designers."

Like, the world Jordan created is INSANELY detailed and the lore that everything is based on is so well laid out that you can literally picture EXACTLY how things and places should look. 2/3rds of every chapter is practically a guidebook for how the world is designed. Which means it takes actual EFFORT to fuck it up as badly as they are.

[Syegfryed]

Sub Eragon
.

Jesus Christ.

The core structure is changed. You may wish to watch the show first. That way you may receive some entertainment value. But keep in mind, there are 14 thick books. The idiot-in-charge making the show has to throw out plenty of elements, and more importantly, toss out the time for characterization. I typically give a new show 3 episodes to win me over. My bro gave it four and gave up in disgust. And we read..and reread the books.

14 books seem like a ride, i though it was a trilogy, i may give a go if they are not like game of thrones books

I would easily argue that if you watch Amazon's WoT, without reading the books first, you will get an almost opposite idea of what the WoT story is about. It diverges so far from the plot that it turns around and goes in the opposite direction.
I know some people have tried to spin this adaptation as, "another turning of the wheel", but honestly, I couldn't even consider it that.
The only way this could be connected to the WoT in any sense is it being one of the many alternate realities as noted by the portal stones, but as with all portal stones, those realities are doomed to dwindle and die due to their divergence from the pattern. Or one could consider this as a summary of Loial's book, as written by the Red Ajah in the third age.
The intent of the story being told is just very different from the source material. This is like getting rid of Bree in LotR and all characters related to Bree, and having Sam not leaving with the party at the Shire, but catching up with them in Rivendell later. Then all of that dead time left from cutting stuff out being filled with random filler that adds nothing to the story, but conflicts with later character development as well as cut out character development.

I can see why it can be worse than eragon's movie, i can see a lot of parallels, like they removing his cousin story that was supposed to be a big thing for the series.

[Triceron]

Right, but the point is, as a fan of the books, we don't want "any TV fantasy series". We want "Wheel of Time". And we aren't getting it. Instead, we are getting "Vaguely inspired by some of the ideas that Wheel of Time touched on". Which isn't good enough.

I mean, this is especially bad when you consider how the books were written and Jordan's narrative style. As someone on another forum I am on quipped while discussing the series: "when 1 page out of 6 deals with character development and plot while 5 out of 6 describe the surroundings it should be much easier to adapt to a movie. Think of it as a 3k page story with 10k pages of instructions for directors, set builders and costume designers."

Like, the world Jordan created is INSANELY detailed and the lore that everything is based on is so well laid out that you can literally picture EXACTLY how things and places should look. 2/3rds of every chapter is practically a guidebook for how the world is designed. Which means it takes actual EFFORT to fuck it up as badly as they are.

Yes, but consider that the Wheel of Time has been in 'development hell' for decades. Nothing ever came out of it being close to being made into a film or TV adaptation until Amazon decided to pick it up, and only for the reasons of exploiting the IP as their own version of 'Game of Thrones' epic fantasy series. And no, it doesn't take effort to fuck up at all. Fantasy movies done right are few and far between. LOTR and GoT are absolute exceptions when you consider all the fantasy series that came before it. I mean what do we really have to compare here? Legend of the Seeker? Merlin the series? Xena Warrior Princess?

Game of Thrones was a game changer. Before that, most-if-not-all fantasy TV series were all cosplay-levels of production quality. And with this current Amazon series, it's not really fronted by people who are vetted into the position by the authors. It's not like Robert Jordan hand-picked the right creators to do this, and Brandon Sanderson is acting as a consultant more than an actual producer who has executive sway over how things go in the series. It's mostly in the hands of the creators who are choosing to change the tone, style and world of the series, for whatever their reasons.

To me, it's little different than Kevin Smith having his grubby hands all over He-man and doing whatever he wants with it, and pissing off the hardcore fans all the while. As an outsider, who is also a big nostalgia fan of the 80's He-man, I don't really concern myself over getting angry over someone's adaptation of He-man, because I don't regard it as being some singular canon that has to be adhered to, even if Kevin Smith outright wants to present Revelations that way. As an IP, the series has been taken in all sorts of directions and has been adapted many different ways, including having a Live Action movie that had nothing to do with the cartoon series. So anything the hardcore He-man fans have to get upset over really has nothing to do with the show itself, because ultimately the show doesn't have to be for them. And like, there's a made-for-kids version of He-man that also exists, and I don't see the same amount of vitriol flung that way even though that series has less to do with the original. I can understand the criticisms and sentiments are based on feeling betrayed by the intentions of the creators; that they all say this is meant to be true to the source, then they present something that isn't at all. And I get that if that's the core issues here.

The conflict I have is that the arguments most people are presenting to make that point end up being irrelevant the series itself, because ultimately it is going to be an adaptation beholden to the creator, and not to the source. Just as I point out that the GoT series is not GRRM's Game of Thrones, it's Dan and David's Game of Thrones; or how LOTR is not Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, it's Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings.

What should be absolutely clear here is that Wheel of Time TV is not Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, and really I personally think it's somewhat naive to ever jump into it thinking it should or would be. It never will be, even if they happened to stick with a male-only Dragon Reborn. Let's face it, the gender swaps just happens to be the biggest point of contention to changing the lore. If that didn't happen, then it would be the change of characters like Perrin and Mat's backstories. Right now, I feel like people tolerate those character changes only because there's something far worse to set their focus on. If there was no Dragon Reborn change, then would people still be as tolerant of the backstory changes? Probably not, because it sets up an expectation that if the major plot is unchanged, then there's no reason why minor changes be tolerated either. The core issue stems from expecting the series should be beholden to the book lore, and mileage may vary from person to person depending on how high of a pedestal they put the book lore, and how willing they are to accept something as fundamentally different.

Right now, the core arguments I see against the WoT series having strayed from the books is based on sentiments that 'it should be more like the books because that's what they sold us on'. And for whatever reason, these same criticisms are being twisted to 'the series will suffer because they strayed from the books because they're alienating the fans', when the reality is that the majority of fans of the TV series aren't going to be book readers at all, and are mostly unaware of the book lore or any of its changes. They're going to take the series at face value. And that's how I see this series should be taken whether you are a book reader or not - at face value, for whatever it aims to be.

And let me be clear - despite whatever fans may think or what the creators may say, this isn't Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time.

[Smallfruitbat]

Right now, the core arguments I see against the WoT series having strayed from the books is based on sentiments that 'it should be more like the books because that's what they sold us on'. And for whatever reason, these same criticisms are being twisted to 'the series will suffer because they strayed from the books because they're alienating the fans', when the reality is that the majority of fans of the TV series aren't going to be book readers at all, and are mostly unaware of the book lore or any of its changes. They're going to take the series at face value. And that's how I see this series should be taken whether you are a book reader or not - at face value, for whatever it aims to be.

And let me be clear - despite whatever fans may think or what the creators may say, this isn't Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time.

Yes, I want to see a respectful adaptation of the series -and fidelity to the books is important for that. I have no problem with cutting things down where necessary for brevity or making changes to fit the medium, I like what they've done with Thom so far.

I don't want to see a series that is frankly 'male bashing'. There was no need to do a hatchet job on Abel Cauthon, or have Egwene's Dad appear hen pecked. Nor was there any need to have Perrin's wife working the forge alone while he was drinking with the boys. You don't need to bring someone else done to make a character look good.

With regards to Brandon Sanderson, I don't think he has any influence. He said in one of his Reddit posts that he would be there 'as long as they needed him' as a resource. He would be foolish to start rubbishing the show, he's said many times there are changes that he was not happy with. Rafe may say that he gives more weight to Brandons notes but at the end of the day, he was boasting about taking feedback from his own Mother. The guy is going to go in his own direction like it or not.

[Delekii]

Speak for yourself, got 1 episode end and stopped. I know another buddy that got to the Logain power nerf and he stopped too. I can make the claim that many others including myself are tired of egotistical shit stains in hollywood pretending they know better than authors with millions of books sold, who keep making shit changes time and again and ruining series.

You're right, you can make the claim. But claims are meaningless, numbers are all that matters. Despite all the fucking whining, GoT was one of the most watched shows in existence, The Witcher was a massive success for Netflix, and Wheel of Time is one of the most watched series releases so far on the platform - Amazon has said that it far exceeded expectations which had already been set at a high bar.

Nobody gives a shit what you and your buddies think except you and your buddies, unless it is costing them money. If you like the books, go read the fucking books. If you want a faithful series, cash up and go make one. It's hilarious to think that you think that the people who made the series AREN'T every bit as big Wheel of Time fans as you are, but that's another point entirely.

[Shadowferal]

14 books seem like a ride, i though it was a trilogy, i may give a go if they are not like game of thrones books .

I admit I was annoyed at first after finishing the 3rd book and it didn't end. I deliberately avoided the 4th book for a year, and then the 5th book came out and since I had nothing to read...and the 4th book was in the discount bin, I'm glad I did. 4th book ended on such curious note I went and bought the 5th...and that ended in a way that had me eager for the 6th. I was almost yelling at that book, it had such a climactic scene towards the end.

[Coniferous]

Yes, but consider that the Wheel of Time has been in 'development hell' for decades. Nothing ever came out of it being close to being made into a film or TV adaptation until Amazon decided to pick it up, and only for the reasons of exploiting the IP as their own version of 'Game of Thrones' epic fantasy series. And no, it doesn't take effort to fuck up at all. Fantasy movies done right are few and far between. LOTR and GoT are absolute exceptions when you consider all the fantasy series that came before it. I mean what do we really have to compare here? Legend of the Seeker? Merlin the series? Xena Warrior Princess?

Game of Thrones was a game changer. Before that, most-if-not-all fantasy TV series were all cosplay-levels of production quality. And with this current Amazon series, it's not really fronted by people who are vetted into the position by the authors. It's not like Robert Jordan hand-picked the right creators to do this, and Brandon Sanderson is acting as a consultant more than an actual producer who has executive sway over how things go in the series. It's mostly in the hands of the creators who are choosing to change the tone, style and world of the series, for whatever their reasons.

To me, it's little different than Kevin Smith having his grubby hands all over He-man and doing whatever he wants with it, and pissing off the hardcore fans all the while. As an outsider, who is also a big nostalgia fan of the 80's He-man, I don't really concern myself over getting angry over someone's adaptation of He-man, because I don't regard it as being some singular canon that has to be adhered to, even if Kevin Smith outright wants to present Revelations that way. As an IP, the series has been taken in all sorts of directions and has been adapted many different ways, including having a Live Action movie that had nothing to do with the cartoon series. So anything the hardcore He-man fans have to get upset over really has nothing to do with the show itself, because ultimately the show doesn't have to be for them. And like, there's a made-for-kids version of He-man that also exists, and I don't see the same amount of vitriol flung that way even though that series has less to do with the original. I can understand the criticisms and sentiments are based on feeling betrayed by the intentions of the creators; that they all say this is meant to be true to the source, then they present something that isn't at all. And I get that if that's the core issues here.

The conflict I have is that the arguments most people are presenting to make that point end up being irrelevant the series itself, because ultimately it is going to be an adaptation beholden to the creator, and not to the source. Just as I point out that the GoT series is not GRRM's Game of Thrones, it's Dan and David's Game of Thrones; or how LOTR is not Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, it's Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings.

What should be absolutely clear here is that Wheel of Time TV is not Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, and really I personally think it's somewhat naive to ever jump into it thinking it should or would be. It never will be, even if they happened to stick with a male-only Dragon Reborn. Let's face it, the gender swaps just happens to be the biggest point of contention to changing the lore. If that didn't happen, then it would be the change of characters like Perrin and Mat's backstories. Right now, I feel like people tolerate those character changes only because there's something far worse to set their focus on. If there was no Dragon Reborn change, then would people still be as tolerant of the backstory changes? Probably not, because it sets up an expectation that if the major plot is unchanged, then there's no reason why minor changes be tolerated either. The core issue stems from expecting the series should be beholden to the book lore, and mileage may vary from person to person depending on how high of a pedestal they put the book lore, and how willing they are to accept something as fundamentally different.

Right now, the core arguments I see against the WoT series having strayed from the books is based on sentiments that 'it should be more like the books because that's what they sold us on'. And for whatever reason, these same criticisms are being twisted to 'the series will suffer because they strayed from the books because they're alienating the fans', when the reality is that the majority of fans of the TV series aren't going to be book readers at all, and are mostly unaware of the book lore or any of its changes. They're going to take the series at face value. And that's how I see this series should be taken whether you are a book reader or not - at face value, for whatever it aims to be.

And let me be clear - despite whatever fans may think or what the creators may say, this isn't Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time.

So it sounds to me like your argument is, yes, they made a series called "Wheel of Time", but why should anyone expect that it has any similarity to the book series called "Wheel of Time"?

My answer to that is, well then give it a different name and don't pretend it's the same IP.

[Shadowferal]

Rumor...8th episode Rafe said he was going to flip the table on readers' expectations...

...pfft he's already there. The only way he could do worse make Egwene the Dragon. Of course that would show he was committed to his ideas...and confirm to the readership that he wanted a shitshow all along.

[Smallfruitbat]

Rumor...8th episode Rafe said he was going to flip the table on readers' expectations...

...pfft he's already there. The only way he could do worse make Egwene the Dragon. Of course that would show he was committed to his ideas...and confirm to the readership that he wanted a shitshow all along.

Oh Light! How I would love to see the feedback if he did that. I wonder how many of the die hard defenders would cling on.

[jdbond]

You're right, you can make the claim. But claims are meaningless, numbers are all that matters. Despite all the fucking whining, GoT was one of the most watched shows in existence, The Witcher was a massive success for Netflix, and Wheel of Time is one of the most watched series releases so far on the platform - Amazon has said that it far exceeded expectations which had already been set at a high bar.

Nobody gives a shit what you and your buddies think except you and your buddies, unless it is costing them money. If you like the books, go read the fucking books. If you want a faithful series, cash up and go make one. It's hilarious to think that you think that the people who made the series AREN'T every bit as big Wheel of Time fans as you are, but that's another point entirely.

Sorry to burst your bubble but GoT remained faithful to book for awhile earning the praise of fans which led to more people joining in LATER! Similarly Witcher was loved by fans. Guess who hates rendition of WoT the most? The fans. Good luck "carrying" your best "view" count as fans flee.

- - - Updated - - -

Right now, the core arguments I see against the WoT series having strayed from the books is based on sentiments that 'it should be more like the books because that's what they sold us on'. And for whatever reason, these same criticisms are being twisted to 'the series will suffer because they strayed from the books because they're alienating the fans', when the reality is that the majority of fans of the TV series aren't going to be book readers at all, and are mostly unaware of the book lore or any of its changes. They're going to take the series at face value. And that's how I see this series should be taken whether you are a book reader or not - at face value, for whatever it aims to be.

And let me be clear - despite whatever fans may think or what the creators may say, this isn't Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time.

You are correct. This is a s..tshow.

I am not upset about changes. I am upset that they are making changes without putting much thought to it. Are the story writers as good as Jordan? People making changes don't care for "end". They are "season" focused. Unfortunately these changes would make story look stupid as we progress into future seasons requiring even more absurd changes.

These people can't write and yet, they are rewriting 14 book story. No wonder dialogues are substandard, sets and costumes are cheap, nevermind the pace of story.

[Rennadrel]

Yes, I want to see a respectful adaptation of the series -and fidelity to the books is important for that. I have no problem with cutting things down where necessary for brevity or making changes to fit the medium, I like what they've done with Thom so far.

I don't want to see a series that is frankly 'male bashing'. There was no need to do a hatchet job on Abel Cauthon, or have Egwene's Dad appear hen pecked. Nor was there any need to have Perrin's wife working the forge alone while he was drinking with the boys. You don't need to bring someone else done to make a character look good.

With regards to Brandon Sanderson, I don't think he has any influence. He said in one of his Reddit posts that he would be there 'as long as they needed him' as a resource. He would be foolish to start rubbishing the show, he's said many times there are changes that he was not happy with. Rafe may say that he gives more weight to Brandons notes but at the end of the day, he was boasting about taking feedback from his own Mother. The guy is going to go in his own direction like it or not.

Unfortunately for Rafe, I'm sure that the rather negative reviews from both press and fans will put him in hot water with Amazon's directors. And realistically, if the show winds up getting canned because the people the show should be catering to, you know, fans of the series, not normies, the blame will be rested squarely on the shoulders of him and Rosamund Pike to a lesser extent since she's also been involved in the shows production.

[Delekii]

Sorry to burst your bubble but GoT remained faithful to book for awhile earning the praise of fans which led to more people joining in LATER! Similarly Witcher was loved by fans. Guess who hates rendition of WoT the most? The fans. Good luck "carrying" your best "view" count as fans flee.

- - - Updated - - -



You are correct. This is a s..tshow.

I am not upset about changes. I am upset that they are making changes without putting much thought to it. Are the story writers as good as Jordan? People making changes don't care for "end". They are "season" focused. Unfortunately these changes would make story look stupid as we progress into future seasons requiring even more absurd changes.

These people can't write and yet, they are rewriting 14 book story. No wonder dialogues are substandard, sets and costumes are cheap, nevermind the pace of story.

GoT was popular from day dot, and had plenty of changes. As I said, you can tell yourself whatever you like; the reality is all that matters. Maybe you'll be right and the show will flop. I seriously doubt it, and there is no reason to believe that it will be the case from an objective basis. The 4th episode maintained viewership from the first 3, the show has so far received ~85% meta rating from critics and 80% from audience score after ~3000 votes on rotten tomatoes.

If the "fans" are numerous enough to make up a significant portion of the viewership and also dislike the show enough to stop watching it, there is no chance that it maintains an 80% positive review score after 2 weeks. The "fans" who are upset are, by far, the most likely to vote early and often. When shows or movies are actually unpopular and have actually upset pre-existing fanbases, there is an over-compensation on reviews generally, people tend to pile on to review-bombs when they happen.

Here is an example of a series that dramatically changed from the source material in ways that actually matter, that is in itself not a completely awful show, but is hugely maligned by the fanbase: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/the_watch - "The Watch" is a show based on Discworld, which is a massively popular book series with ~41 books in total, about ~12 of which are about "The Watch" and many others involve them indirectly. As you can see from the review, the series has been absolutely tanked on Rotten Tomatoes; the Audience score is 41%.

The scenario that is in your head and the head of some others in this thread just isn't the case. I'm a big fan of the books, I've read them all multiple times, and I don't have big problems with the changes so far in the show. Not because they aren't big sweeping changes, but because they don't actually matter to the storytelling.

[Triceron]

So it sounds to me like your argument is, yes, they made a series called "Wheel of Time", but why should anyone expect that it has any similarity to the book series called "Wheel of Time"?

My answer to that is, well then give it a different name and don't pretend it's the same IP.

Concerning the gendering, all that was explained by the creator is that certain people don't fully believe the prophecy. And as they explain, that already happens in the book. It doesn't mean everyone is operating on Moraine and the one Darkfriend's ideas of a female Dragon Reborn being possible.

If they later have some wiser character appear to course correct the prophecy and explain to Moraine that the dragon is always male, then everything still works. And again, we already know who the Dragon Reborn will be, so the purpose of this whole gendering change really only needs to affect this grace period when the casual audience don't yet know who it will be and have reasons to guess and be hooked. If this were to happen, then nothing in the greater lore really changes except for the sake of guesswork for the first season (plus).

But is this how the creators will treat things down the line? I have no clue. I'm just presenting one possible outcome that doesn't necessarily fuck up all the lore, since the whole idea of female Dragon Reborn is ultimately only coming from two POV's, and it's not actually some universal part of the prophecy. So far, it's literally Moraine's unchallenged interpretation, and a Darkfriend who seemingly had similar visions. The way I see it, they're going to run with the whole possible female Dragon Reborn thing until the true unveiling happens, and it sets everyone back on track to no longer question that the Dragon Reborn is literally male and that the other possible candidates remain as simply powerful channelers, the likes that people haven't seen in ages. Right now they've just introduced a 'plot twist' that is shaking things up and having the characters consider the possibility that a male-only Dragon prophecy may be wrong, considering the presence and visions of more recent powerful female channelers. That doesn't really shake up the entire structure of whitecloaks or Aes Sedai or anything else since we haven't fully seen those POVs.

[Flurryfang]

I hope somebody can help me here.

As an avid reader of the books, i want to watch the show with some friends that have not been reading the books, yet i want to introduce them before we watch the series. How much of the book series is in the first season so far? Is it just Eye of the World or have the put story from other books into the show?

- - - Updated - - -

Rumor...8th episode Rafe said he was going to flip the table on readers' expectations...

...pfft he's already there. The only way he could do worse make Egwene the Dragon. Of course that would show he was committed to his ideas...and confirm to the readership that he wanted a shitshow all along.

If they did that, it would have to be a misdirection..... The entire story builds upon the interaction between Rand, Lews Theron and the rest of the world. If Egwene becomes dragon, the rest of the story just does not work..... Then it would be a completly new story with only the names being the same....

[Xath]

I hope somebody can help me here.

As an avid reader of the books, i want to watch the show with some friends that have not been reading the books, yet i want to introduce them before we watch the series. How much of the book series is in the first season so far? Is it just Eye of the World or have the put story from other books into the show?

- - - Updated - - -



If they did that, it would have to be a misdirection..... The entire story builds upon the interaction between Rand, Lews Theron and the rest of the world. If Egwene becomes dragon, the rest of the story just does not work..... Then it would be a completly new story with only the names being the same....

It's about as faithful to the books as Eragon's movie I'd just have them read the books honestly.