Mage Tower timewalking

[Yooginava182]

I haven't tried anything but Xylem yet, but he is 100% objectively overtuned, and I say that as someone who did him on 3 specs during Legion.

In the Legion iteration his razor ice/comet storm attack would hit you for maybe 10-15% of your HP every couple seconds, giving you 10-15 seconds to kill the ice and get out (with passive healing and such). I hopped on my DH alt just to go see what the tuning was like since this was an encounter I remembered quite well--and had the first two hits of comet storm hit me for, and I am giving you actual numbers here 41% of my total HP and then 37% of my total HP, with the third hitting for another 41% (half of that being overkill)--and all of that happened in under 5 seconds.

They are not correctly tuned.

THIS. People are here saying "get gud". Sorry, this seasonal content should not be something that breaks your back and discourages people from playing it.

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I feel like most people don't remember how hard these were at the time they released (not talking about months later with new raid gear)

It's meant to be challenging content aimed at top players and people willing to put a lot of effort into it, you're not supposed to walk in with no knowledge and kill it in 30 minutes, as a friendly reminder it took days/weeks (considering you had to grind a ressource for the tries) and for the tank challenge took top players beetween 30 to 100+ tries to get the kill, and it wasn't doable at all for your average player

This time around you're not blocked by gear and people have already done the challenges, so they're far from impossible and you just need to accept you're gonna have to play the game better.

This is not the same as when it was current content. Jesus fuck. Older content should not be impossible and only available to the top 1% of the population. Current game content ( SL content - not reused for an event like timewalking ) should be where the harder content is. Let people collect the transmogs and mount and move on from the TIMED event. and "playing the game better". Theres nothing you can get better about when a mechanic that you could easily avoid in legion cause it didn't 1 or 2 shot you like it now does.

[Iflash]

I've been doing the disc one (the Tauren and the Worm) for about an hour. I managed to get the first boss, but then the worm one shotted me. I used a small defensive, I guess I need to use bigger defensives, but I'm pretty sure I won't be able to kill it before I run out of defensives. I guess I have to kill both faster?

[Barzotti]

Older content should not be impossible and only available to the top 1% of the population. Current game content ( SL content - not reused for an event like timewalking ) should be where the harder content is

But... why? Older content doesn't mean that it should be a joke difficulty wise. Why would you lower the difficulty because it's not current content anymore? What's wrong if an optional cosmetic challenge is extremely difficult? It's not tied to a power increase, it doesn't require any farming or specific legendaries, and you only get cosmetic rewards. People wanted the mage tower back and wanted a solo challenge, well, they got it now. Not the dumbed down version in late Legion when we got carried by gear and could brute force the challenges (that's what I personally did, I did like 25 challenges at the end of the expac with 950-960 ilvl).

[Zyrinx]

The thing is this won't get easier, at least organically.

If it's overturned now, it's overturned.

[Log Cabin]

I've been doing the disc one (the Tauren and the Worm) for about an hour. I managed to get the first boss, but then the worm one shotted me. I used a small defensive, I guess I need to use bigger defensives, but I'm pretty sure I won't be able to kill it before I run out of defensives. I guess I have to kill both faster?

You have to cleave them while taking stacks off the worm by having it run into rocks. That said... these don't feel properly tuned. I did a good chunk of these at release and I was dealing and taking a lot less dmg. Enrage seems to be a bigger issue then before.

[Lazerbrain]

Seriously though, this is not endgame content, its a reward for something thats supposed to feel like a solo brag, and it can't be a brag if its easy right, gotta make it hard enough so only a select few can get it right?

[DazManianDevil]

I've been doing the disc one (the Tauren and the Worm) for about an hour. I managed to get the first boss, but then the worm one shotted me. I used a small defensive, I guess I need to use bigger defensives, but I'm pretty sure I won't be able to kill it before I run out of defensives. I guess I have to kill both faster?

I haven't done the worm since Legion but you need to interrupt everything with any fear effects etc, maybe there are talents for it?
OT: Excited to try these when I get off work, I remember finally beating the tank challenge and the rush.

[DechCJC]

This is not the same as when it was current content. Jesus fuck. Older content should not be impossible and only available to the top 1% of the population. Current game content ( SL content - not reused for an event like timewalking ) should be where the harder content is. Let people collect the transmogs and mount and move on from the TIMED event. and "playing the game better". Theres nothing you can get better about when a mechanic that you could easily avoid in legion cause it didn't 1 or 2 shot you like it now does.

I mean, if it’s legitimately impossible then fair enough, otherwise nah.

This is meant to be a prestigious reward, it absolutely should be adequately challenging.

I do agree that it shouldn’t be timed.

[bledgor]

But... why? Older content doesn't mean that it should be a joke difficulty wise. Why would you lower the difficulty because it's not current content anymore? What's wrong if an optional cosmetic challenge is extremely difficult? It's not tied to a power increase, it doesn't require any farming or specific legendaries, and you only get cosmetic rewards.

It is beyond the level of extremely hard, it is level of neigh impossible, I know the disc one requires you to play perfectly for at least 7 minutes, or you will die. Even then it might not be enough. Considering we can't ever grown into it/outscale it and the content is ONLY available for a week or two every 4 months and there are 36 specs you can try, it shouldn't require perfectly play aka 100s of attempts per a spec to complete.

Right not I am not even have fun because I feel like if I make one mistake (even less than mythic raiding) and its auto gg.

[Barzotti]

I mean, if it’s legitimately impossible then fair enough, otherwise nah.

This is meant to be a prestigious reward, it absolutely should be adequately challenging.

I do agree that it shouldn’t be timed.

Jpc (a M+ player) completed the subtlety rogue challenge at his 6th attempt. It's tight but not impossible.

[Hitei]

But... why? Is there any logic behind that? Older content doesn't mean that it should be a joke difficulty wise. Why would you lower the difficulty because it's not current content anymore?

The issue in this case is less that they didn't lower the difficulty of older content, and more that they outright raised it (or really, that they failed to tune it at all), but putting that aside, that is exactly how the RPG model generally works. Progression means that as time goes on, early threats and challenges become less so. I doubt anyone would be complaining if encounters were a similar difficulty to Legion's, but as it stands some of the fights are harder than they were even in very, very low ilevel the first time around.

[Log Cabin]

Jpc (a M+ player) completed the subtlety rogue challenge at his 6th attempt. It's tight but not impossible.

Depends on the challenge... it feels weird that some of them feel like they need a perfect set to do properly. I did all 36 some after the patch it launched at and I can say that this feels really off and janky. It feels like it needs a tuning pass.

[Barzotti]

The issue in this case is less that they didn't lower the difficulty of older content, and more that they outright raised it (or really, that they failed to tune it at all), but putting that aside, that is exactly how the RPG model generally works. Progression means that as time goes on, early threats and challenges become less so. I doubt anyone would be complaining if encounters were a similar difficulty to Legion's, but as it stands some of the fights are harder than they were even in very, very low ilevel the first time around.

People had hundreds of tries on the mage tower legion, and managed to master the fights entirely in terms of cd management for example. The challenge just came back after a three years hiatus and people will progress through the fight eventually. We have to basically relearn the fights.

Depends on the challenge... it feels weird that some of them feel like they need a perfect set to do properly. I did all 36 some after the patch it launched at and I can say that this feels really off and janky. It feels like it needs a tuning pass.

Some of the challenges were deemed as impossible at release for the common mortals (such as the prot pala one), and it's hard to gauge whether this mage tower iteration was harder than the original one, or whether people didn't do the original challenge at release (aka with 890 ilvl). Because the original challenge in Nighthold gear was fucking brutal and depressing. You had to play perfectly for some of them.

[Log Cabin]

People had hundreds of tries on the mage tower legion, and managed to master the fights entirely in terms of cd management for example. The challenge just came back after a three years hiatus and people will progress through the fight eventually. We have to basically relearn the fights.

Not really... on average it took me about 10 attempts per spec for mage tower barring healing challenges. These are in many cases not tuned properly the feltotem one stands out its passive dmg was never that dangerous ive not done more yet but its pretty jank.

[Hctaz]

I haven't tried anything but Xylem yet, but he is 100% objectively overtuned, and I say that as someone who did him on 3 specs during Legion.

In the Legion iteration his razor ice/comet storm attack would hit you for maybe 10-15% of your HP every couple seconds, giving you 10-15 seconds to kill the ice and get out (with passive healing and such). I hopped on my DH alt just to go see what the tuning was like since this was an encounter I remembered quite well--and had the first two hits of comet storm hit me for, and I am giving you actual numbers here 41% of my total HP and then 37% of my total HP, with the third hitting for another 41% (half of that being overkill)--and all of that happened in under 5 seconds.

They are not correctly tuned.

When did you do Xylem?

I did him on several characters at various levels of power, but my main was Frost DK when this happened so I very realistically remember the level of difficulty we're talking. Dying from standing in comet storm over in under 5 seconds is very much how the fight worked. You shouldn't take more than one tick of comet storm as a DH or any class for that matter unless you have CDs in order to survive. I don't know how Frost DK actually does it now though TBH. The way it worked at the time was to time your Remorseless Winter so that it expired right as you became unstunned from the comet. There was an artifact trait that caused an AoE explosion upon the ability's expiration that would clear the majority of the ice storm comets, and the rest you needed to very quickly take down while spamming Dark Succor Death Strike procs and AMS in order to survive.

DH can just double jump backflip out instantaneously so the tick damage was tuned even higher on that ability for that class specifically.

I cleared Xylem on my Frost DK the literal first week it was available when most other players were not able to do so, so I imagine it's tuned the same as it was then.

[Log Cabin]

People had hundreds of tries on the mage tower legion, and managed to master the fights entirely in terms of cd management for example. The challenge just came back after a three years hiatus and people will progress through the fight eventually. We have to basically relearn the fights.



Some of the challenges were deemed as impossible at release for the common mortals (such as the prot pala one), and it's hard to gauge whether this mage tower iteration was harder than the original one, or whether people didn't do the original challenge at release (aka with 890 ilvl). Because the original challenge in Nighthold gear was fucking brutal and depressing.

I did six of the towers in the first two weeks of release since I couldnt commit to raiding at the time. pally,dh,hunter, mage, priest,and some of rogue.

This is coming from someone with every skin and mythic slvannas down. These just flat out are not balanced correctly it isn't a difficulty issue in some of these cases.

[Hitei]

When did you do Xylem?

I did him on several characters at various levels of power, but my main was Frost DK when this happened so I very realistically remember the level of difficulty we're talking. Dying from standing in comet storm over in under 5 seconds is very much how the fight worked. You shouldn't take more than one tick of comet storm as a DH or any class for that matter unless you have CDs in order to survive. I don't know how Frost DK actually does it now though TBH. The way it worked at the time was to time your Remorseless Winter so that it expired right as you became unstunned from the comet. There was an artifact trait that caused an AoE explosion upon the ability's expiration that would clear the majority of the ice storm comets, and the rest you needed to very quickly take down while spamming Dark Succor Death Strike procs and AMS in order to survive.

DH can just double jump backflip out instantaneously so the tick damage was tuned even higher on that ability for that class specifically.

I cleared Xylem on my Frost DK the literal first week it was available when most other players were not able to do so, so I imagine it's tuned the same as it was then.

A month or so in. I'm sorry but you are just misremembering.

Here is video evidence for you, of a frost DK doing it April 3, 2017 (i.e. 6 days after release). You can see he very comfortably gets hit by many of the damage ticks and Xylem's frostbolts (it takes him nearly 10 seconds to get out of the second comet storm and about 6 to get fully out of the first one) and does not use anything besides a single Death Strike in either of the instances of comet storm, but does not even hit 50% HP.

It is NOT the same tuning.

For direct comparison, here is someone doing it an hour ago.

Do you see how, even using Frostwyrm to instantly one shot the razor ice, he nearly dies (26% HP before recovery) just between the time it takes to get out of the stun and walk out of the AoE?

[Log Cabin]

Actually got fed up with Bm and tried MM. One shot the fight the twins seems extremely undertuned.

[Toybox]

Seriously though, this is not endgame content, its a reward for something thats supposed to feel like a solo brag, and it can't be a brag if its easy right, gotta make it hard enough so only a select few can get it right?

I agree, but if it's harder than it was during Nighthold then that's more than a bit daft. We don't have it in EU yet so I'm only going on word of mouth, but if true, that is a tad ridiculous. I'm alright with it being tuned at Nighthold level, but it shouldn't be harder than it was at launch

[SNES-1990]

They had the mage tower on the PTR for a whopping 24 hours. Of course it'll be out of whack.