[Spoiler]So....giant red ball which broke arbiter is....

[Alanar]

I am confused... wth.

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There were several posts on this back around 9.1 where people knew it was Argus.

They didnt knew.. they speculated like everyone else.

[Aleksej89]

danuser is an incompetent nitwit and attempting to even consider that his work has any sense and logic oughta be a criminal offense.

[Khaza-R]

The Argus breaking the Arbiter part was a bit expected but still doesn't actually explain anything. Also Blizzard does sometimes take fan theories and run with them. So it doesn't mean this was planned since Legion.

But the "lol Sylvanas did it part" is just beyond ridiculous. Even for this shamble of a lore team.

[archelos91]

wow lore ended with LK dead for me.

[Dellis0991]

There is a sex joke in this somewhere...something about him not fitting.

[natpick]

It's almost like they never had any idea of what it was themselves to begin with and only came up with it being Argus after stalking around fan forums. This expac can't end soon enough.

this is most likely how most of the stories happen,its sad really.

[un_known]

I am confused... wth.

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They didnt knew.. they speculated like everyone else.

Many speculated that it was Xavius as well or anyone who was evil and red for that matter

[Gorsameth]

Didn't the Titans use Argus to imprison Sargeras?
Why did Argus go to the shadowlands?
Why did Argus break the Arbiter?
How did Zovaal even know about Argus?
How did Zovaal corrupt Argus?
How did Sargeras not notice?
If Sargeras and Zovaal were working together, why? Sargeras wants to kill Azeroth to 'save' her soul from void corruption. Him winning would stop Zovaal from being able to remake reality with the universal 3d printer since he needs Azeroth's soul to power it.

Does any part of this actually make sense?

[Iflash]

I just watched a video of the entire questline.
So a dreadlord shows up as they are creating a new Arbiter. He channels an Echo of Argus into the vessel for the new Arbiter. Argus sort of returns, but then is defeated easily (probably cause it was just an echo). The dreadlord does heavily imply that it was Argus who broke the previous Arbiter.

I think "Death" via the Dreadlords tortured Argus, and stole some of its soul. Titans don't usually go to the Shadowlands, but the Dreadlords used the Death-twisted remains of Argus' world soul as a missile against the Arbiter.

We do see it apart from the flow of souls, so not a naturally occuring phenomena. It definitely looked like it was launched towards the Arbiter. Since the Arbiter is not used to titan world souls, let alone one twisted by death, it broke.

So I don't think we are meant to think that Argus naturally went to the Shadowlands.

[Venziir]

not sure if trolling or genuinely believe what they are saying?

Ysera, and by extension all of the dragon aspects forsook their immortality at the end of cataclysm, they had fulfilled their purpose as set out by the pantheon aeons ago, and as such lost their gifts, ergo, she and the rest of them were made mortal.

The former-Aspects still have their powers though, "Fortunately, the Aspects are still true to the gifts given to them by the titans, as life, magic, nature and time last forever.[17]" https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dra...s#cite_note-17

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

It not making any sense aside, if these writers are going to write for an MMO that gets 1-1.5 patches worth of story updates a year, they need to learn to write pacing with that in mind. It should not have taken this long to learn what broke the arbiter. 9.1 at the latest should have been when we learned.

[Candy Cough]

Seems a lot of people whine just to whine

Argus was the death titan and infused with massive amounts of death Magic, this is the connection to the shadowlands

The arbiter experiences the life of every Soul she judges

Argus was tortured and tormented for thousands of years

Arbiter experiences the pain of a thousand years in an instant

Arbiter is overwhelmed by the pain

???

Profit

My only issues is replacing the arbiter with pelagos. She’s probably as ancient as time itself then just gets replace by a no name.

That and the fact that the Jailer being a one expansion baddie somehow has tricked Sargeras for all these years. It makes him look so stupid when he was the main bad guy for like 20 years. Its just going to revolve into a Void Lord manifesting then Sargeras and Illidan the Redeemer popping out of nowhere to save us

[Iflash]

Didn't the Titans use Argus to imprison Sargeras?
Why did Argus go to the shadowlands?
Why did Argus break the Arbiter?
How did Zovaal even know about Argus?
How did Zovaal corrupt Argus?
How did Sargeras not notice?
If Sargeras and Zovaal were working together, why? Sargeras wants to kill Azeroth to 'save' her soul from void corruption. Him winning would stop Zovaal from being able to remake reality with the universal 3d printer since he needs Azeroth's soul to power it.

Does any part of this actually make sense?

1) I don't remember, did they? I thought they just used their own power.
2) I think the dreadlords stole a part of his soul and then fired it towards the Arbiter.
3) Probably because it's not used to handle titan souls. It's a machine after all.
4) Via the dreadlords.
5) Via the dreadlords.
6) He might have, or not. He probably just assumed the dreadlords were demons.
7) Maybe Zovaal always intended to betray Sargeras? Although I don't know if they were really working together.

[Varx]

Anyone who refused that it was argus that broke the wheel is completely dense or lore ignorant.

It was so freaking obviouse.

[Aucald]

It's quite possible that the already corrupted world-soul of Argus was further twisted and mutated by agents of Zovaal (like the Nathrezim) right underneath the eyes of Sargeras, making it a creature of Death as opposed to Fel and perhaps explaining why Argus employed so many Death-related abilities (e.g. Cone of Death, Soulblight Orb, Death Fog, End of All Things, etc.) This would make Argus both a creature of Death and of Disorder, perhaps allowing him to pass into the Shadowlands and also bringing with him the essence of Disorder, knocking the Arbiter out of commission and bringing essential chaos to the ordered machinery of Death.

Just speculation on my part, mind you; but it wouldn't be the first example of a being whose essential nature was altered by third parties, just perhaps the most significant. Based on a brief and out-of-context snippet it's hard to tell.

[niilokin]

at this point it really seems fan theories build the lore going forward... if we had just insisted on mankrik's wife breaking the cycle of death it would have happened!

[El Gucaragua]

Can we stop acting liking because our theory came true we knew that this was the right answer all along?

Just because a theory got confirmed does not mean 'Oh but this was the most obvious answer from the start everyone knew it. There were multiple options and this clusterfuck scenario was one of them.

[LordVargK]

It not making any sense aside, if these writers are going to write for an MMO that gets 1-1.5 patches worth of story updates a year, they need to learn to write pacing with that in mind. It should not have taken this long to learn what broke the arbiter. 9.1 at the latest should have been when we learned.

Agreed. Their pacing is horrible.

[DatToffer]

Nice, but titan souls do not go to the shadowlands upon death, as they are not mortal. Danuser is still retconning everything.

They mention "a world soul twisted by Death", don't know what it means, but it can be the reason it ended up here. Because you're right, titan souls don't normally go to the Shadowlands which might be why the Arbiter couldn't handle it and just shut down.

[Iflash]

They mention "a world soul twisted by Death", don't know what it means, but it can be the reason it ended up here. Because you're right, titan souls don't normally go to the Shadowlands which might be why the Arbiter couldn't handle it and just shut down.

The titan soul wasn't part of the regular flow of souls. Someone (likely the dreadlords) fired it towards the Arbiter. You can see it going in a straight line towards the Arbiter.