Equality

[Niwes]

As i seen a lot of people want Sylvanas head on a spike for what she has done in Teldrassil and as a horde i do agree she might deserve it.
But the horde these past expansion lost great names like Garrosh,Voljin and Rasthakan(even though we knew him for one expansion).Now most likely we will lose Sylvanas either by being killed or banished never to be heard of.Thrall left the horde and started agriculture.
The Horde are pretty much weakened.Except Varian i do not recall the Alliance ever losing important figures.

Why are the Horde always written as the "bad guys"?

since Blizzard decided, years ago, Horde should no longer be the „Thralls Horde“-like underdog faction, but instead the stupid plain simple „da evil guyz“ faction, it doesnt matter much, imo. Horde since years has no real leaders or great characters. Green Jesus shit, Gallywix, Douchebag Baine, Lorthemar shwoing up for 5seconds with some lame statements, and so on. its completely lackluster. a shitty pack of some lousy written loosers.

Blizz dont care since years and also wouldnt even know where to write them to. as long as ppls like Danuser are lead narrative designer that not even know how to write a general xpac story for ppls older than 5 years, as long really really NOTHING will change at Horde faction story or characters.

and here is the short version:

that game became shit AF and is just a lousy shadow of his once great past. foremost in the sections story, lore, factions and characters. if you REALLY play wow for the story in 2021 or if you play Horde for the faction in 2021, you need drugs. a lot of drugs. imo.

[Dellis0991]

MoP: Garrosh/his followers were always presented as bloodthirsty savages who act before thinking. Garrosh himself told Thrall that he wasn't fit to lead. His place is on the battlefield fighting, using brawns instead of brains, not on the throne administering things. So it was not surprising that Garrosh would turn into a genocidal psycho.

BfA: Sylvanas/Forsaken were always presented as bloodthirsty monsters who don't care about anyone or anything and will kill anyone in their way. They always had dark plans. In Cataclysm, they nuked many towns and even an entire kingdom with the plague. So again it wasn't surprising that they'd turn into psychos.

If anything it's the Alliance that got the short end of the stick, since they are told to forgive both the Mag'har (Iron Horde/Garrosh's followers), and Sylvanas/Forsaken (because apparently the Janitor was mind-controlling them since the start, they never had free will).

Damn you really wearing blinders....

[Syegfryed]

I mean, I don't disagree.
But it is what it is; he was purposely made the villain with villainous intent (arguable) and will always have become the bad guy.


Especially in a work of fiction, where the writer's intent for character development is clear, and the purpose they have for that character is served. Before Blizzard went into the realm of "morally gray reasoning for action" they would do many years later (or with their attempt at a "halfway redemption" in SoD for him.)

The biggest issue with this is how he was not a villain and was forceful made as one for plot device.

It feels inorganic and shit, because even until 5.1 Garrosh was pretty much ok and justified, they had to make him killing and torturing innocents in the raid so people could get angry about it. .

This in the end only help to destroy the horde narrative they created in wc3.

[Rhelyo]

As long as my boy Lor'themar stay balls deep in Thalyssra and out of harms way I'm happy.

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I don't know they made a ton of horde characters do a order 66 for no damn reason or without little to no development with them.

Unless Lor'themar is appointed the next in line to be warchief and we all know what happened to the last 3.But we can be asured as Blizzard decided that the Horde no longer requires a warchief and that it will be replaced by a council like.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Why are the Horde always written as the "bad guys"?

Because the conquering Horde story is the most interesting Horde story.

• Players who want to play as evil beastmen have their fantasy fulfilled as they get questlines where they get to be the aggressors, invade neutral kingdoms, execute prisoners, commit horrific human experimentation, wield biological weapons, machinegun panda villages, and burn down elf cities.

• Alliance players get to play as heroes fighting against unambiguous evil.

The problem with the Horde is that it was sold as being Thrall's Horde from WC3, ie a reformed group of humane beastmen with morals. So you have a significant portion of the Horde playerbase who are hoping to get stories about good guy beastmen, which is irreconcilable with the above depiction of the Horde.

I've heard that while WoW was in development, quite a number of devs wanted to be able to play as the actual Scourge. As an MMO, I think the Horde (or the "NOT-Alliance" faction, be it Horde or Scourge or Legion or whatever) should have been evil. Over the course of the many years WoW has run, it has become clear that Blizzard just simply isn't interested in telling good guy beastmen stories. We got only a handful of stories, compared to the many, many storylines about the evil conquering Horde. The devs mind as well have committed and have been true to their hearts and just made the 2nd playable faction of WoW straight up evil right from the get go. Other MMOs have playable evil factions (DAOC with the conquering vikings, Warhammer Age of Reckoning with the forces of Chaos, LotRO with the forces of Sauron, etc). No reason why WoW couldn't have had one too.

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What i do not understand is why is it always one of the Horde leaders is going bannanas and gets his head chopped and Alliance are always seen as saints?

Because Alliance leaders have morals and do not go around committing genocide or conquering. The Horde are conquering vikings/mongols who burn, loot, and murder for treasure, glory, and bloodlust.

You can't have a blue-Garrosh. The Horde was culturally predisposed towards conquest, which allowed Garrosh to attain popular support. Peacemakers like Thrall are the exception, not the norm. The Horde political structure is also incredibly fragile and fascist thinking (see the blood oath of the Horde) and allowed Garrosh to ascend and assume totalitarian control with astonishing high rates of obedience, no matter how depraved his orders were. The Alliance has no such predispositions. People like Garithos are the exception, not the norm. Furthermore, the Alliance's political structure has traditions and checks and balances that would prevent such a crazy from attaining power, and the Alliance races value free will and morality and thus would not be inclined to obey unethical orders. Genn becoming High King and ordering that the Alliance start genociding Tuskarr villages and the armies actually doing it would make no sense whatsoever (just as the "purge squad" nonsense in BFA was laughable).

As a horde i do hope we get a Alliance centered expansion for once.

You'll never get an "Alliance centered expansion" the same way the Horde got multiple expansions and games about them. The Alliance is not interesting in of itself. It is interesting compared to what it stands against. The Alliance is at its most interesting when it is weathering the adversity of having their lands being invaded by inhuman forces of evil, their fathers and sons dying, their kingdoms being burned and their heritage lost and humiliated and yet still standing tall and holding fast to their morals and fighting the good fight. That is what makes the Alliance interesting.

The only vaguely interesting Alliance storyline that doesn't really have much to do with outside forces was the Stonemasons/Defias Brotherhood storyline. Ie, the city was in ruins, stonemasons were paid to rebuild it, they didn't get paid, they rioted and this led to an insurgency/criminal syndicate that thrives in the underdeveloped areas of the kingdom, breeding resentment and gathering up these outcasts. That's actually pretty interesting. Sadly the writers went "it was actually an evil dragon behind it the whole time!" and the storyline was forgotten.

They should of had the alliance conquer and either subjugate the orcs or wipe them out entirely alongside the forsaken. It never made lore sense why those two races were allowed to exist.

Warcraft 2 had a LotR ending where the surviving orcs fled from civilization. Presumably they dwindled over time and were eventually wiped out.

After Warcraft 2, Metzen came up with the idea for the Lord of the Clans story, so that's when we got the "they weren't wiped out, they were put into concentration camps, also Orcs aren't inherently evil" retcons. That story was fine, but it didn't have legs for what would eventually become WoW. When Thrall's Horde sailed to Kalimdor, they fulfilled their story arc and didn't have any reason to remain in the narrative. TFT's bonus campaign had to bend over backwards to contrive reasons to revive the Horde vs Alliance conflict, and ever since the writers have been constantly tripping over themselves trying to excuse the Horde and preventing the Alliance from just getting rid of these barbaric invaders and serial genociders off of their planet.

And this shows the imbalance in Blizzard storytelling. Jaina purges a city from blood elves she gets to live and everyone is ok with that. Sylvanas is written to destroy Teldrassil and everyone wants her head on a spike (which will probably end up being banished from the story for awhile to not upset the Horde player base).

You left out the part where the Horde had historically committed multiple genocides and their current ruler (who had popular support and was representative of the will of their people) wanted to wipe out the peoples of the Alliance, and had just wiped out an entire city. These elves (who had sworn an oath of neutrality while in Dalaran) had been discovered to be traitors who were actively aiding the Horde in procuring dark artifacts to wield against the alliance and commit more mass murder. Ofcourse everyone is okay with Jaina acting that way! Also bear in mind that the only elves killed in Dalaran were those who were resisting arrest. She didn't commit genocide.

Why is the Horde evil? Because there was demand for it.

If there was a demand to play as an evil faction, then Thrall's post WC3 Horde should not have been picked to fulfill that role. This is more ergregious when you consider that WoW was in development at the same time WC3 was in the works, with Metzen being said to have become frustrated with the devs who got the Scourge and Sylvanas' Forsaken mixed up because he had the idea that he was setting up the Forsaken to be playable in WoW. He could have easily written the lore at the time to set up an evil faction with a wide variety of monster races in preparation for WoW (ie, maybe a different Horde altogether, or Scourge with more varied races, etc).

we lost leaders and characters for years, nobody is left, horde is just plot device so the alliance can do something, its a shit way of story telling that benefits no faction in the end

WoW has failed to cultivate new characters and get players invested in them. The only WoW original characters people like on the same level as the WC3 cast are... Garrosh, Varian, Genn, Anduin, and... ??? I'm drawing a blank here.

A personal hobby of mine is browsing and downloading fanart. I have seen too much Warcraft art to recount, and I have nearly a thousand pics of the best art saved in my folder. Almost all is art of the old WC3 characters, + the above aforementioned 3 new characters. And sometimes you might see art for a WoW OG like Wrathion thrown in there now and then, but that's it. There are WoW OGs that have been around for a long time and have a lot of screentime across various questlines, books, short stories, etc, like Velen and Baine, but nobody really cares about them on the same level as the WC3 cast. I don't recall having ever seen fanart for Baine or Mekkatorque and etc. And now that most of the WC3 cast is all gone... Blizzard is out of characters that the audience really cares about. It's no coincidence that since WoD, the character on the box art for every WoW expansion is someone from the WC3 games. Grommash, Illidan, Sylvanas, etc. And our adventuring party in Shadowlands is all old characters everybody liked. At this point, I'm pretty sure Jaina, Thrall, Anduin, etc all have plot armor because if they're gone, then there will be no one left for the audience to care about.

I like Thrall but letting your people suffer a canyon in a desert as form of discipline will do nothing good for improving morale and being diplomatic....lets be real he made a ticking timebomb, got the fuck out the way and told nobody the fuse was lit till the sumbitch went boom.

Boggles my mind that he never had those shamans and druids terraform the land surrounding Orgrimmar into fertile fields. Thrall could have also had tried to work out a trade agreement with the Alliance to get Gnomish engineers to build irrigation systems. Would've helped improve relations. The Alliance would have likely agreed as they would have been incentivized to try to turn the Horde into a more peaceful agrarian society.

[Syegfryed]

WoW has failed to cultivate new characters and get players invested in them. The only WoW original characters people like on the same level as the WC3 cast are... Garrosh, Varian, Genn, Anduin, and... ??? I'm drawing a blank here..

they stop doing adding good charactersin Cataclysm/mop, then it was so rehashing old ones and killing then because GOT success and killing characters that the fanbase like was was the new meta. Curious the time they start caring more about characters as main protagonists of movies and less about the worldbuilding.

Orcs, taurens, trolls, there is no one left to kill, and they don't add more for a while, few races atm have this problem, we got the zappy boy joke, but thats it.

[Feanoro]

@Val the Moofia Boss I've said many times that there should have been more than just the two factions, especially with how increasingly absurd the circumstances around the newest members' signups are becoming. I won't belabor the exact makeup of each hypothetical faction, as there's been multiple threads on that, but a system where more player factions existed could have been interesting.

Give the ability for the player to build rep with other player factions, mimicking how alliances actually work. Mix up the default faction responses, everyone is initially hostile to the Scourge but the player can overcome that, as you know there would be no shortage of Drizzt Do'Undeads. Other factions might be neutral or not openly hostile to each other, and so on. Would be a lot more interesting than "Lawful Stupid Humans and Pals" and "We Can't Decide if We're the Old Horde or Not".

[VladlTutushkin]

Because the conquering Horde story is the most interesting Horde story.

• Players who want to play as evil beastmen have their fantasy fulfilled as they get questlines where they get to be the aggressors, invade neutral kingdoms, execute prisoners, commit horrific human experimentation, wield biological weapons, machinegun panda villages, and burn down elf cities.

• Alliance players get to play as heroes fighting against unambiguous evil.

The problem with the Horde is that it was sold as being Thrall's Horde from WC3, ie a reformed group of humane beastmen with morals. So you have a significant portion of the Horde playerbase who are hoping to get stories about good guy beastmen, which is irreconcilable with the above depiction of the Horde.

I've heard that while WoW was in development, quite a number of devs wanted to be able to play as the actual Scourge. As an MMO, I think the Horde (or the "NOT-Alliance" faction, be it Horde or Scourge or Legion or whatever) should have been evil. Over the course of the many years WoW has run, it has become clear that Blizzard just simply isn't interested in telling good guy beastmen stories. We got only a handful of stories, compared to the many, many storylines about the evil conquering Horde. The devs mind as well have committed and have been true to their hearts and just made the 2nd playable faction of WoW straight up evil right from the get go. Other MMOs have playable evil factions (DAOC with the conquering vikings, Warhammer Age of Reckoning with the forces of Chaos, LotRO with the forces of Sauron, etc). No reason why WoW couldn't have had one too.

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Because Alliance leaders have morals and do not go around committing genocide or conquering. The Horde are conquering vikings/mongols who burn, loot, and murder for treasure, glory, and bloodlust.

You can't have a blue-Garrosh. The Horde was culturally predisposed towards conquest, which allowed Garrosh to attain popular support. Peacemakers like Thrall are the exception, not the norm. The Horde political structure is also incredibly fragile and fascist thinking (see the blood oath of the Horde) and allowed Garrosh to ascend and assume totalitarian control with astonishing high rates of obedience, no matter how depraved his orders were. The Alliance has no such predispositions. People like Garithos are the exception, not the norm. Furthermore, the Alliance's political structure has traditions and checks and balances that would prevent such a crazy from attaining power, and the Alliance races value free will and morality and thus would not be inclined to obey unethical orders. Genn becoming High King and ordering that the Alliance start genociding Tuskarr villages and the armies actually doing it would make no sense whatsoever (just as the "purge squad" nonsense in BFA was laughable).



You'll never get an "Alliance centered expansion" the same way the Horde got multiple expansions and games about them. The Alliance is not interesting in of itself. It is interesting compared to what it stands against. The Alliance is at its most interesting when it is weathering the adversity of having their lands being invaded by inhuman forces of evil, their fathers and sons dying, their kingdoms being burned and their heritage lost and humiliated and yet still standing tall and holding fast to their morals and fighting the good fight. That is what makes the Alliance interesting.

The only vaguely interesting Alliance storyline that doesn't really have much to do with outside forces was the Stonemasons/Defias Brotherhood storyline. Ie, the city was in ruins, stonemasons were paid to rebuild it, they didn't get paid, they rioted and this led to an insurgency/criminal syndicate that thrives in the underdeveloped areas of the kingdom, breeding resentment and gathering up these outcasts. That's actually pretty interesting. Sadly the writers went "it was actually an evil dragon behind it the whole time!" and the storyline was forgotten.



Warcraft 2 had a LotR ending where the surviving orcs fled from civilization. Presumably they dwindled over time and were eventually wiped out.

After Warcraft 2, Metzen came up with the idea for the Lord of the Clans story, so that's when we got the "they weren't wiped out, they were put into concentration camps, also Orcs aren't inherently evil" retcons. That story was fine, but it didn't have legs for what would eventually become WoW. When Thrall's Horde sailed to Kalimdor, they fulfilled their story arc and didn't have any reason to remain in the narrative. TFT's bonus campaign had to bend over backwards to contrive reasons to revive the Horde vs Alliance conflict, and ever since the writers have been constantly tripping over themselves trying to excuse the Horde and preventing the Alliance from just getting rid of these barbaric invaders and serial genociders off of their planet.



You left out the part where the Horde had historically committed multiple genocides and their current ruler (who had popular support and was representative of the will of their people) wanted to wipe out the peoples of the Alliance, and had just wiped out an entire city. These elves (who had sworn an oath of neutrality while in Dalaran) had been discovered to be traitors who were actively aiding the Horde in procuring dark artifacts to wield against the alliance and commit more mass murder. Ofcourse everyone is okay with Jaina acting that way! Also bear in mind that the only elves killed in Dalaran were those who were resisting arrest. She didn't commit genocide.



If there was a demand to play as an evil faction, then Thrall's post WC3 Horde should not have been picked to fulfill that role. This is more ergregious when you consider that WoW was in development at the same time WC3 was in the works, with Metzen being said to have become frustrated with the devs who got the Scourge and Sylvanas' Forsaken mixed up because he had the idea that he was setting up the Forsaken to be playable in WoW. He could have easily written the lore at the time to set up an evil faction with a wide variety of monster races in preparation for WoW (ie, maybe a different Horde altogether, or Scourge with more varied races, etc).



WoW has failed to cultivate new characters and get players invested in them. The only WoW original characters people like on the same level as the WC3 cast are... Garrosh, Varian, Genn, Anduin, and... ??? I'm drawing a blank here.

A personal hobby of mine is browsing and downloading fanart. I have seen too much Warcraft art to recount, and I have nearly a thousand pics of the best art saved in my folder. Almost all is art of the old WC3 characters, + the above aforementioned 3 new characters. And sometimes you might see art for a WoW OG like Wrathion thrown in there now and then, but that's it. There are WoW OGs that have been around for a long time and have a lot of screentime across various questlines, books, short stories, etc, like Velen and Baine, but nobody really cares about them on the same level as the WC3 cast. I don't recall having ever seen fanart for Baine or Mekkatorque and etc. And now that most of the WC3 cast is all gone... Blizzard is out of characters that the audience really cares about. It's no coincidence that since WoD, the character on the box art for every WoW expansion is someone from the WC3 games. Grommash, Illidan, Sylvanas, etc. And our adventuring party in Shadowlands is all old characters everybody liked. At this point, I'm pretty sure Jaina, Thrall, Anduin, etc all have plot armor because if they're gone, then there will be no one left for the audience to care about.



Boggles my mind that he never had those shamans and druids terraform the land surrounding Orgrimmar into fertile fields. Thrall could have also had tried to work out a trade agreement with the Alliance to get Gnomish engineers to build irrigation systems. Would've helped improve relations. The Alliance would have likely agreed as they would have been incentivized to try to turn the Horde into a more peaceful agrarian society.

Well damn thats a long post.

I have just a few things to add though.

1) Alliance being in the victim role is bullshit plot. It works once. Maybe twice. But repeated so many times and without meaningful retribution or resolution it just ends up driving the fans off. Because nobody, and i mean NOBODY would want to play a perpetual helpless victim suffering at the hands of a WoW version of Ugly Bastard.

2) Alliance dosent react to the Horde, it just imitates reaction. Since if they actually reacted, even if it didnt ended in factions wiping each other out characters like Anduin wouldnt have even existed because they would have zero “ground” to rise from. Nobody would have treated horde as anything but rabid animals.

3) Alliance being “boring” is entirely on writing team. They cant write humans, cant write dwarves, or rather they dont want to. A writer can make a story about two dudes playing chess entertaining with enough skill, WoW writers cant tell a story about heroes fighting in the Afterlife without turning it into a snoozefest.

Its their fault. They just cant write for shit, and got into business only because of rampant nepotism.

[Aresk]

And this shows the imbalance in Blizzard storytelling. Jaina purges a city from blood elves she gets to live and everyone is ok with that. Sylvanas is written to destroy Teldrassil and everyone wants her head on a spike (which will probably end up being banished from the story for awhile to not upset the Horde player base).

This is a false equivalence. Jaina imprisoned most of the Sunreavers and was one of the leaders of Dalaran meting out justice on her subjects (regardless of whether she overstepped her bounds). Sylvanas murdered the people of Teldrassil, who she had no position of authority among, after declaring war on the Alliance. Had Jaina actually flooded Orgrimmar, we'd have a comparable action, but she didn't. The Sunreavers were able to be released, whereas the dead kal'dorei either stayed dead or were raised into undeath to serve the very person who murdered them.

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WoW has failed to cultivate new characters and get players invested in them. The only WoW original characters people like on the same level as the WC3 cast are... Garrosh, Varian, Genn, Anduin, and... ??? I'm drawing a blank here.

Does Genn count as WoW OG? He was in the WC2 manual, though he didn't have much to his characterization there.

[Azadina]

At the end of Battle for Azeroth expansion we did took with us some new races like the vulpera,zandalari trolls and others.Rastakhan was the zandalari trolls king so i do think we was an important figure of the Horde.

By that logic Kil'jaeden and Archimonde are notable Alliance characters lost. Why? Leaders of eredar; some of which joined the alliance renamed as draenei.

[Varodoc]

Varian Wrynn
Fandral Staghelm
King Magni (lost to neutrality)
Khadgar (lost to neutrality)
Cordana Felsong
Archbishop Benedictus
Pretty much the entire region of Duskwood (joined the Legion)
Bolvar Fordragon (lost to neutrality)

These are all the examples that come to mind first.

It's incredibly easy to prove you wrong OP.

[DatToffer]

Varian Wrynn
Fandral Staghelm
King Magni (lost to neutrality)
Khadgar (lost to neutrality)
Cordana Felsong
Archbishop Benedictus
Pretty much the entire region of Duskwood (joined the Legion)
Bolvar Fordragon (lost to neutrality)

These are all the examples that come to mind first.

It's incredibly easy to prove you wrong OP.

Ha yes, the famous disease of neutrality that kills hundreds of people every year, lol.

[Dancaris]

The Horde broke into Azeroth trying to destroy its inhabitants. Ever since ,plenty of hostilities happened

Well, most of Alliance are aliens. All of titanforged (humans, dwarfs, gnomes, wolf-humans, fat humans, robo-gnomes, black dwarves) and Eredars are alien to Azeroth. Only NE(offsprings of trolls), pandarens and VE(offsprings of NE->BE) are races that are native to that world.
For Horde races - only orcs and dead-humans are alien. All of other races are native or evolved from native species.

[LauraHydra1]

The Horde contains a lot of what are considered the traditionally evil races in fantasy. Orcs, trolls, goblins are hardly ever the good guys. Making them the bad guys, or at least the morally ambiguous ones, just comes a lot more naturally. 22222222222222222222222

[shise]

Well, most of Alliance are aliens. All of titanforged (humans, dwarfs, gnomes, wolf-humans, fat humans, robo-gnomes, black dwarves) and Eredars are alien to Azeroth. Only NE(offsprings of trolls), pandarens and VE(offsprings of NE->BE) are races that are native to that world.
For Horde races - only orcs and dead-humans are alien. All of other races are native or evolved from native species.

Can´t say that titanforge creations are alien... they are long enough in the country to consider them natives, really.

For that matter, even night elfs might be aliens if we go further back in history and find out their very initial conception.

[Dancaris]

Varian Wrynn
Fandral Staghelm
King Magni (lost to neutrality)
Khadgar (lost to neutrality)
Cordana Felsong
Archbishop Benedictus
Pretty much the entire region of Duskwood (joined the Legion)
Bolvar Fordragon (lost to neutrality)

These are all the examples that come to mind first.

It's incredibly easy to prove you wrong OP.

Benedictus and Cordana ware loud names? Really? If its been Maiev or Malfurion - ok, but noname warder? Same I could name Malkorok, Putress, Nathanos, Galen Trollbane or even Thomas Zelling. Aside from big shots like Cairne Bloodhoof or Sen'jin.
Face it, Horde lost much more named and unnamed characters than Alliance.

>Pretty much the entire region of Duskwood (joined the Legion)
And that was total bullshit. We dont speak about lost population of places. And you know, we lost entire clans (Outland Maghars, Dragonmaw).

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Can´t say that titanforge creations are alien... they are long enough in the country to consider them natives, really.

For that matter, even night elfs might be aliens if we go further back in history and find out their very initial conception.

Then why bring this argument to discussion? Orcs invaded Azeroth? But who opened the Portal? And through whose fault demons find Draenor?

[cparle87]

Lore wise its what makes sense for the narrative. I admit I find the current horde uninteresting and dull but I enjoy playing the evil faction its just horde is now the human kingdom copy pasted but with huts and spikes.

Sounds like Warcraft isn't for you, then. Since the entire point of the franchise since RoC was breaking the stereotypical chaotic evil orc stereotype that every other franchise with orcs uses. I love the simple minded viewpoint that there's nothing between "bloodthirsty warmongers" and "human but with huts and spikes."

[Varodoc]

Ha yes, the famous disease of neutrality that kills hundreds of people every year, lol.

Why did you not point out that OP was wrong to mention Sylvanas then, lol.

[Rhelyo]

Varian Wrynn
Fandral Staghelm
King Magni (lost to neutrality)
Khadgar (lost to neutrality)
Cordana Felsong
Archbishop Benedictus
Pretty much the entire region of Duskwood (joined the Legion)
Bolvar Fordragon (lost to neutrality)

These are all the examples that come to mind first.

It's incredibly easy to prove you wrong OP.

Are you really comparing Benedictus,Fandral,Cordana and Bolvar with Sylvanas,Garrosh,Voljin and Saurfang? You had a better pointed if you named Arthas but none of those were important Alliance leaders. The only leader that alliance lost and had a big lore was Varian which i do agree on him.
The point was that these 3 expansions anyone who was named warchief met his end (remains to be seen on Sylvanas).
We are running low on important figures on Horde side.Important figures are characters that are old and are backed by lore or new ones which are build in time in the course of expansions so people get fond of. In BfA we got Talanji which replaced Rastakhan but was left there and i hope she does make a return someday.

[Syegfryed]

Can´t say that titanforge creations are alien... they are long enough in the country to consider them natives, really.

For that matter, even night elfs might be aliens if we go further back in history and find out their very initial conception.

as orcs are also native to azeroth by now, since most of then are born in the concentration camps.

And night elves are not alien, just mutated trolls.

Benedictus and Cordana ware loud names? Really? If its been Maiev or Malfurion - ok, but noname warder? Same I could name Malkorok, Putress, Nathanos, Galen Trollbane or even Thomas Zelling. Aside from big shots like Cairne Bloodhoof or Sen'jin.
Face it, Horde lost much more named and unnamed characters than Alliance.

>Pretty much the entire region of Duskwood (joined the Legion)
And that was total bullshit. We dont speak about lost population of places. And you know, we lost entire clans (Outland Maghars, Dragonmaw).

it baffles me how people want to compare random npcs to faction leaders

We came to a point that only orc characters left are thrall and a senile orc, trolls have rokhan who doesn't evne have an model and a meme npc, and of course, Baine.

few more expansions we will have only elves and vulpera