Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Syegfryed]

Even when we have a scene of Sylvanas actively acknowledging her wrongdoing that's not good enough for this audience. Wether it's just a complete rejection of the very obvious themes of the Arthas arc or people so deranged with hatred for sylvanas they're actually blaming Sylvanas for Uther throwing Arthas into the maw

Who fucking care about her "acknowledging her wrongdoing" obviously "acknowledging a crime" is not enough, "oh well, i became worse than Arthas, anyway...."

First of all, it was not even supposed to be her scene, she godamn hijacked it, second, its not even just that, she says she became arthas but attempt a moral highground like she have any right to say any shit about it lmao, not only that, she rob the scene of other people who should say something instead of her.

People hate it because Danuser is shoving her in every cinematic he can, its like the director of resident evil making her wife the protagonist lol,
its a shit story that is going to end as the worst wow stoyryline ever,

[ChairmanKaga]

I was expecting Jaina or Uther to have the final say. You know, his former lover or mentor, but they barely gave a fuck.

Literally, why? Arthas has been gone for 15ish years. Uther's entire story in SL is about him coming to terms with his failure of Arthas. Jaina has no reason to be pining over her old boyfriend from WC3. You wanted both these characters to actually be worse.

[Vakir]

Seems like some people need to play the Alliance campaign in BfA. Jaina still had massive issues she was working through, and Arthas was a big part of it.

None of it is coming from a place of honesty. The stalwart holdouts were going to like it and make justifications of it regardless of quality, while accusing anyone disappointed of being "haters," conveniently ignoring all the times those same people once liked something.

[Revamp Man]

Ok I love the fact this cinematic was the moment Anduin finally used Shalamayne and split it

I mean Tyrion could do it at will after his whole being split in two then coming together thing and Saurfang used it when he finally confronted Sylvanas and showed her how she failed then we have now where Anduin realizes he’s not just a weakling anymore.

Sylvanas definitely should have just sat there in awkward silence though

[huth]

"She did nothing wrong."


She did, she sided with the Jailer and let herself be duped and sorta pushed Uther on to damn Arthas to the Maw not that it matters. Jailer loves to mess with his former heralds.

She also did literally everything she accused Kyrestia of. She was a massive hypocrite.

It's not like that's even particularly unrealistic, either. We had plenty of examples of politicians doing that in recent years, and they tend to be the more warmongering sort as well.

[ExiHext]

Im baffled that people think this cinematic was good.

Just as baffled as I am that people cannot for the love of god accept differing opinions. Who are you to decide what's good and what's not other than for yourself?

[BaumanKing]

Im baffled that people think this cinematic was good.

It's simple. Some people have good taste, some don't. And for others, wow is like a religion now, and they will blindly defend it no matter what.

[Hitei]

Literally, why? Arthas has been gone for 15ish years. Uther's entire story in SL is about him coming to terms with his failure of Arthas. Jaina has no reason to be pining over her old boyfriend from WC3. You wanted both these characters to actually be worse.

It's nuts how people whine about the writing but then constantly suggest significantly worse alternatives.

"What do you mean Jaina is more worried about her pseudo nephew who just nearly exploded after being brainwashed than she is about her exboyfriend turned murderer from two decades ago dying for the third time!?! She should be sobbing and talking about all her memories of him!"

[Makorus]

It's nuts how people whine about the writing but then constantly suggest significantly worse alternatives.

"What do you mean Jaina is more worried about her pseudo nephew who just nearly exploded after being brainwashed than she is about her exboyfriend turned murderer from two decades ago dying for the third time!?! She should be sobbing and talking about all her memories of him!"

The WoW community thinking they are able to write something better than the WoW writers while simultaneously suggesting the most idiotic things ever has been a running theme for a few expansions now.

[ExiHext]

It's simple. Some people have good taste, some don't. And for others, wow is like a religion now, and they will blindly defend it no matter what.

Yea, it's almost the same with this wow bashing religion, they will bash, no matter what. Just blind fanaticism.

[Divada]

Towelliee saying 10.0 is all Danusers baby... *shudders*

The good thing about that is if 10.0 is a disaster then no one else can be blamed, it's all on him. I don't want 10.0 to be a disaster by the way but if it is then at least there will probably be actual consequences this time instead of constant deflection.

[Nyel]

The WoW community thinking they are able to write something better than the WoW writers while simultaneously suggesting the most idiotic things ever has been a running theme for a few expansions now.

If you're just looking at the worst ideas, yes. But there are good, great examples that totally exceed what the WoW writing team is capable of. Don't mix the good ones with the bad ones, even if the ratio is 1:10 for the bad ones.

[username993720]

*video*

Is there a character they're not gonna get rid of?
Arthas... Garrosh... the Helm of Domination... oh yeah, Sylvanas.

[Kiria]

It's simple. Some people have good taste, some don't. And for others, wow is like a religion now, and they will blindly defend it no matter what.

I don't even play wow retail and I thought the cinematic was good, people just want to whinge hate and moan for the sake of it.

[Pheraz]

It's nuts how people whine about the writing but then constantly suggest significantly worse alternatives.

"What do you mean Jaina is more worried about her pseudo nephew who just nearly exploded after being brainwashed than she is about her exboyfriend turned murderer from two decades ago dying for the third time!?! She should be sobbing and talking about all her memories of him!"

I get your point but the heavy focus on Sylvanas in the video was objectively too much. It was about Anduin. And all the time we help Jaina to free Anduin. Why the sylv focus again? It's not whining when people talk about the wrong focus. It doesn't mean WoW is dead or everything is always bad or next xpac story will be bad or whatever

[Alanar]

To quote a youtube comment I saw

Blizz October 2020: "The story of Arthas from Warcraft III to its conclusion at the end of Wrath of the Lich King is one of the most iconic tales of our canon. We do not invoke his name lightly. At the same time, Shadowlands allows us to explore the origins of the darkness that consumed the heart of the young prince. In the process, we just might learn more about him and the others whose lives were forever impacted by the choices Arthas made."

March 2022: "Flicker ball go spoof, lul"

That is a massive finger in your ...
Gtfo with shadowlands already.. so tired of all things that could have happened, but never did.

Lets just move on..

[Osmeric]

Anyway, with that cinematic out of the way, next stop: end of the expansion and 10.0! Only a week to go before things really start to unfold, can't freaking wait.

Reaching the point where the expansion is over and therefore can't get worse will be something for you all to celebrate, I'm sure.

[Landrisser]

The good thing about that is if 10.0 is a disaster then no one else can be blamed, it's all on him. I don't want 10.0 to be a disaster by the way but if it is then at least there will probably be actual consequences this time instead of constant deflection.

I think you are gravely mistaken. They will blame COVID, or the lawsuits or the transfer to Microsoft for anything bad with 10.0 . In fact, the fanatics already use those excuses to explain why SL is so bad and why it only received 2 content patches for the whole expansion. We’ll be seeing those used as excuses for years to come I imagine, lol.

[Hitei]

I get your point but the heavy focus on Sylvanas in the video was objectively too much. It was about Anduin. And all the time we help Jaina to free Anduin. Why the sylv focus again? It's not whining when people talk about the wrong focus. It doesn't mean WoW is dead or everything is always bad or next xpac story will be bad or whatever

Because Anduin was never in some elaborate moral quandary. He understood right and wrong, tried his absolute best to do the right thing and then was forcibly mind controlled and made to do terrible things. This cinematic wasn't about character development for him, it was about him breaking free, which he did, in the entire first half. His reaction and development re: the things that he was forced to do is not something to deal with in 90 seconds in a cinematic immediately after being freed, it's something for him to deal with in the years to come as it changes his approach and attitude, and who he is as a leader (or even not a leader if it results in him permanently stepping down).

So the second half is about that last little glimmer of Arthas, and since Arthas himself in this tiny fragmented form is unable to actually speak, his end is told through the person whose entire character was created by Arthas' actions and who was the only one in the group of people so heavily connected that still hasn't quite let go of lingering resentment.

Like I get not liking Sylvanas. I've disliked her since Vanilla/WC3, but this is the one case where Sylvanas makes the absolute MOST sense to be the one doing something. Not Jaina, who has long sense moved past Arthas and is worried about Anduin, or Uther, whose storyline was all about him figuring out how to let go of Arthas, or Anduin who is dealing with his own shit and whose only connection to Arthas is him being the soul used for the mourneblade forging. Your other (absolutely terrible) option here is to have Arthas himself come back and end his own storyline, which is just awful. It was a much wiser narrative decision to have his last appearance be just a fragment of an echo fading away, seen through the eyes of the one person that spent her entire un-life haunted by and hating that echo.

[Landrisser]

Because Anduin was never in some elaborate moral quandary. He understood right and wrong, tried his absolute best to do the right thing and then was forcibly mind controlled and made to do terrible things. This cinematic wasn't about character development for him, it was about him breaking free, which he did, in the entire first half. His reaction and development re: the things that he was forced to do is not something to deal with in 90 seconds in a cinematic immediately after being freed, it's something for him to deal with in the years to come as it changes his approach and attitude, and who he is as a leader (or even not a leader if it results in him permanently stepping down).

So the second half is about that last little glimmer of Arthas, and since Arthas himself in this tiny fragmented for is unable to actually speak, his end is told through the person whose entire character was created by Arthas' actions and who was the only one in the group of people so heavily connected that still hasn't quite let go of lingering resentment.

Like I get not liking Sylvanas. I've disliked her since Vanilla/WC3, but this is the one case where Sylvanas makes the absolute MOST sense to be the one doing something. Not Jaina, who has long sense moved past Arthas and is worried about Anduin, or Uther, whose storyline was all about him figuring out how to let go of Arthas, or Anduin who is dealing with his own shit and whose only connection to Arthas is him being the soul used for the mourneblade forging. Your other (absolutely terrible) option here is to have Arthas himself come back and end his own storyline, which is just awful. It was a much wiser narrative decision to have his last appearance be just a fragment of an echo fading away, seen through the eyes of the one person that spent her entire un-life haunted by and hating that echo.

It actually doesn’t make any sense for someone who committed genocide to try and take the moral ground over someone who was manipulated just like her.

I don’t believe you should be posting about narrative design so much when your ideas are this halfwitted, to be honest. Keep it in the fanfic thread.