If Dragonflight becomes another Shadowlands, we'll probably see a WoW 2

[dwarven]

Before you jump on me, let me explain. I'm pretty sure a lot of dissatisfaction with expansions is simply due to how old the game is. Imagine if TBC came out today as a new expansion. People would be complaining left and right at how little content there was, how totally imbalanced the the arena system was, and how the Illidan storyline was not integrated into the casual experience at all. TBC would have been another WoD if it came out today. But back then, WoW's gameplay was still fresh. It was still innovative in a lot of ways, so people tolerated what was a largely half-baked expansion by today's standards.

There's more to do in WoW right now than ever before. Alt leveling is a lot more friendly than it was back then, there are piles and piles of cosmetics and mounts to chase after. There's PvP, raiding, dungeons, world quests, covenants, nicely integrated storylines for the solo player, and so much content it would make a 2006 player's head spin.

And yet, I've never seen people more unhappy with the game, myself included. Why? As I said earlier, I think the game is just old. It's still a good MMO, objectively speaking. But, 2022 games just feel better to play than 2004 ones. Have you ever seen that a company was doing a remake of an old game you played and you got hyped for it, only to play it and realize you'd rather just play its sequel, or whatever its newest iteration was? Game engines have come a long way since 2004.

Anyway, I think the disparity between WoW and modern games will only become more great as we move further into the 2020s. With Unreal Engine 5 looking absolutely incredible and more accessible to small developers, we're going to see even your average run of the mill games completely outclass WoW's gameplay, which used to be fresh and innovative. Blizzard has always been great an innovating, and taking older ideas and polishing them to a perfect sheen. This talent that they possess has largely been wasted by continuing to publish a 17 year old game. Yes, people still play it and give them money, which is why Blizzard continues to develop it. But, I think players are becoming more and more aware of the gameplay disparity, and this is largely why dissatisfaction with the game is growing, not because of specific content. It will probably get to a point where they are caught with their pants down and suddenly the game is empty. BFA and SL were pretty clear warning signs. If Dragonflight continues with the dissatisfaction trend, we'll probably see a sequel, or a massive engine/visual upgrade at the very least.

[Skylarking]

Lol no the game will never be "empty"

[Deventh]

Hopefully Microsoft does something with the franchise because we know very well Blizzard/Activision wouldn't.

[dwarven]

Hopefully Microsoft does something with the franchise because we know very well Blizzard/Activision wouldn't.

One area I can see Microsoft pushing Blizzard on is Starcraft. There is huge potential there for something beyond an RTS, and they really want to push Xbox. Most future Blizzard games will probably come out on console alongside PC.

[loras]

Before you jump on me, let me explain. I'm pretty sure a lot of dissatisfaction with expansions is simply due to how old the game is. Imagine if TBC came out today as a new expansion. People would be complaining left and right at how little content there was, how totally imbalanced the the arena system was, and how the Illidan storyline was not integrated into the casual experience at all. TBC would have been another WoD if it came out today. But back then, WoW's gameplay was still fresh. It was still innovative in a lot of ways, so people tolerated what was a largely half-baked expansion by today's standards.

There's more to do in WoW right now than ever before. Alt leveling is a lot more friendly than it was back then, there are piles and piles of cosmetics and mounts to chase after. There's PvP, raiding, dungeons, world quests, covenants, nicely integrated storylines for the solo player, and so much content it would make a 2006 player's head spin.

And yet, I've never seen people more unhappy with the game, myself included. Why? As I said earlier, I think the game is just old. It's still a good MMO, objectively speaking. But, 2022 games just feel better to play than 2004 ones. Have you ever seen that a company was doing a remake of an old game you played and you got hyped for it, only to play it and realize you'd rather just play its sequel, or whatever its newest iteration was? Game engines have come a long way since 2004.

Anyway, I think the disparity between WoW and modern games will only become more great as we move further into the 2020s. With Unreal Engine 5 looking absolutely incredible and more accessible to small developers, we're going to see even your average run of the mill games completely outclass WoW's gameplay, which used to be fresh and innovative. Blizzard has always been great an innovating, and taking older ideas and polishing them to a perfect sheen. This talent that they possess has largely been wasted by continuing to publish a 17 year old game. Yes, people still play it and give them money, which is why Blizzard continues to develop it. But, I think players are becoming more and more aware of the gameplay disparity, and this is largely why dissatisfaction with the game is growing, not because of specific content. It will probably get to a point where they are caught with their pants down and suddenly the game is empty. BFA and SL were pretty clear warning signs. If Dragonflight continues with the dissatisfaction trend, we'll probably see a sequel, or a massive engine/visual upgrade at the very least.

Thing is though that despite all the shiny new graphics a lot of games haven't actually improved in gameplay at all.
The exceptions are so few and far in between that it's sort of depressing; plenty of those remakes sell like mad not out of nostalgic value but rather because their design was conceptually sound, whereas most new games nowadays are a disjointed mess.

And i think that's the reason WoW is still the king, even if it has been a crappy one: The core gameplay has always been very solid, even if it has sucked by its own standards.
Basic things like reactivity and handling, sound design, whatever; they just work.
That is far rarer than it ought to be, but there you have it.

In that sense the visual aspects of it are really just a footnote in terms of their importance to a game's quality.
"Shiny" just has terribly little to dowith fun.

[Berndorf]

If the thought really existed at Bliz hq to do a wow2 in the future I'd much prefer a new mmo based on a new fantasy world than moving Azeroth like 50-100 years into the future like they did with Guild Wars 2. To me they have mined the original WoW lore to death at this point and I'd like to see something entirely new and unexplored as it were with new classes and new ideas/art style.

[Kokolums]

There's more to do in WoW right now than ever before. Alt leveling is a lot more friendly than it was back then, there are piles and piles of cosmetics and mounts to chase after. There's PvP, raiding, dungeons, world quests, covenants, nicely integrated storylines for the solo player, and so much content it would make a 2006 player's head spin.

And yet, I've never seen people more unhappy with the game, myself included. Why? .

it was never about having things to do. the problem is the game is not social.

[Athorha]

TBH I'm hyped for indie company x's unreal engine 5 flappy bird with completely new gameplay which outclasses wow. Wow is just a stepping stone for the true top tier strategy games that developers are finally able to create now that the technology has caught up to their minds.

[Triceron]

No, we won't.

[mwj1995]

lol, if that happened they'll wait another 2 years, release a shiny new cinematic, say they've learnt a lot of lessons from Dragonflight and they're listening to players and then all the blizzard apologists will insta pre-order the next expansion

[Shakzor]

We'll see WoW 2 if their calculators predict it making them more money than current WoW. No second earlier or later.

[MoanaLisa]

It's unlikely there will be a WoW2.

First off, a complete redesign of the game would take at least three or four years. The idea that the game is bad because you don't like how it looks has been shown over and over again to be wrong.

Expansions are now essentially standalone games, something Ion said again today. Every expansion now is a "WoW2".

And why would anyone think that the management people responsible for WoW now would be entirely replaced by a WoW2 team? It doesn't make any sense.

[dwarven]

We'll see WoW 2 if their calculators predict it making them more money than current WoW. No second earlier or later.

That's what I mean. If WoW expansions continue to have poor reception (and I think they will), they'll just make a new game. People complain about lore as a reason expansions have done poorly, but Vanilla had no story at all. People didn't give a fuck that it didn't have lore. They played it because it was fun.

[Kumorii]

WoW will continue to exist until another game rivals their dungeon and raid designs... has little to do with what engine you use. Unreal Engine 5 will give us more good looking games for sure... but that doesn't lead to better design.

I get what you mean with the game feel dated though... and yeah, when it comes to wanting a WoW 2 myself it has little to do with refreshing the gameplay and more to do with getting a complete graphics overhaul. But if you find the game not fun, it looking better won't make you find it more fun. You might want to look at things more in the game, but after that it's gone.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Even if a WoW 2 happens, most of us wouldn't enjoy it. All of the people who made the classic Blizzard games we know and love are long gone. NuBlizzard shovels out crap and there is no reason to believe that they won't continue shoveling out crap.

Imagine if TBC came out today as a new expansion.

Most visually imaginative expansion in the game's history. The Morrowind of Warcraft. Would be favorably received.

People would be complaining left and right at how little content there was

More content than any expansion since MoP.

TBC would have been another WoD if it came out today.

Please. WoD had a lot more pressing problems than not having a state of the art game engine.

There's more to do in WoW right now than ever before.

Log in, do your 20 minutes of chores, log off. And do the same raid once a week for the next 9 months. And maybe do a BG or two if you feel like it. So much to do!

Alt leveling is a lot more friendly than it was back then

Still conceptually sucks, and everyone still playing WoW has levelled up their alts long, long ago.

there are piles and piles of cosmetics and mounts to chase after.

Farming Invincible for 10 years and still not getting the drop isn't fun.

There's PvP

Only BGs, which have been stale for the past 10 years. Arenas are mediocre and huge army battles out in the world haven't happened in a decade. You certainly wouldn't see this happen nowadays:

raiding

We aren't teenagers with no job and no responsibilities and unlimited free time to waste on fighting the same bosses for hours every week for 9 months on end and getting entangled in petty guild drama anymore. It's nice to do once for the spectacle and then never again. And farming for cosmetics sucks.

dungeons

Boring corridors you do in 20 minutes, and then farm the same half dozen dungeons over and over for two years chasing slightly better numbers.

world quests

Imagine thinking that this is meaningful content, even compared to the fleshed out reputation questlines of old.

covenants

Actually an interesting idea but terribly implemented.

nicely integrated storylines for the solo player

*laughs*

so much content it would make a 2006 player's head spin.

So much content that is bifurcated, terribly presented, and practically impossible to attempt. Nobody is doing the Battle of Dazar'alor anymore synced.

And yet, I've never seen people more unhappy with the game

Who knew that catering to 5% of your playerbase leaves you with 5% of your playerbase! Who knew that insulting your customers and refusing to give them what they are paying for for years on end only drives them away! Who knew that declining quantity and quality of meaningful content while the price of playing goes up drives people away! Makes you think.

I think the game is just old.

People still play old games and find fun. Those games were better designed.

But, 2022 games just feel better to play than 2004 ones.

I would rather play an old SNES or PS1 era JRPG than any state of the art AAA game coming out of the West today.

Have you ever seen that a company was doing a remake of an old game you played and you got hyped for it, only to play it and realize you'd rather just play its sequel, or whatever its newest iteration was?

Nope. 9 out of 10 times remakes suck compared to the original so I never get hyped for them.

Game engines have come a long way since 2004.

Game design matters more than "muh engine". I find games with technically worse engines to be better than most games coming out today with all of their bells and whistles, because they had better design and aesthetics. They had soul.

This talent that they possess has largely been wasted by continuing to publish a 17 year old game.

Blizzard's talent has drained away over the past 15 years. The inmates are running the asylum at this point. Anyone still at Blizzard isn't there because they make good games. If they were they would be at a different company.

- - - Updated - - -

WoW will continue to exist until another game rivals their dungeon and raid designs...

There are already other games that rival WoW in dungeon and raid design. No, WoW continues to exist because of its aesthetics. No other game lets you play as beastman savages who go around burning treehugger cities or dropping napalm on panda village, or be a muscular man with huge shoulderpads.

- - - Updated - - -

Unreal Engine 5 will give us more good looking games for sure

Graphical fidelity ≠ aesthetics. Newer games may be technically superior but look aesthetically garbage to many older games.

[MrFrag]

WoW is still the best MMORPG. We may not need to see WoW 2 but we might see Diablo/Starcraft in better graphics(Such as WoW) in the future.

[Kumorii]

Graphical fidelity ≠ aesthetics. Newer games may be technically superior but look aesthetically garbage to many older games.

I agree, but when the tools become easier the pool of artists will increase. If the pool increases the number of games created it. More games get created more good looking games will be created (aesthetically and graphically) but so will the amount of bad looking games. Still an increase though.

VFX and 3D animation became better and better when new tools got created because it increases the possibilities. There are still shit VFX though but there is no denying improvements to the tools improved the look of it. No different with new game engines.

[Deventh]

That's what I mean. If WoW expansions continue to have poor reception (and I think they will), they'll just make a new game. People complain about lore as a reason expansions have done poorly, but Vanilla had no story at all. People didn't give a fuck that it didn't have lore. They played it because it was fun.

I still play Vanilla to this day, because it feels like an actual mmorpg. One server where you know all the players, no flying so you get to meet people all the time, drops feel rewarding. If you have ever gotten an epic drop on a random mob in Vanilla, you'd know what I am talking about. The game is just not even comparable to modern WoW.

[deenman]

why?from the companys point of view shadowlands was as financialy succesful as recent expansions,give or take some losses with scandals that werent related to the game itself

[rrayy]

Before you jump on me, let me explain. I'm pretty sure a lot of dissatisfaction with expansions is simply due to how old the game is. Imagine if TBC came out today as a new expansion. People would be complaining left and right at how little content there was, how totally imbalanced the the arena system was, and how the Illidan storyline was not integrated into the casual experience at all. TBC would have been another WoD if it came out today. But back then, WoW's gameplay was still fresh. It was still innovative in a lot of ways, so people tolerated what was a largely half-baked expansion by today's standards.

There's more to do in WoW right now than ever before. Alt leveling is a lot more friendly than it was back then, there are piles and piles of cosmetics and mounts to chase after. There's PvP, raiding, dungeons, world quests, covenants, nicely integrated storylines for the solo player, and so much content it would make a 2006 player's head spin.

And yet, I've never seen people more unhappy with the game, myself included. Why? As I said earlier, I think the game is just old. It's still a good MMO, objectively speaking. But, 2022 games just feel better to play than 2004 ones. Have you ever seen that a company was doing a remake of an old game you played and you got hyped for it, only to play it and realize you'd rather just play its sequel, or whatever its newest iteration was? Game engines have come a long way since 2004.

Anyway, I think the disparity between WoW and modern games will only become more great as we move further into the 2020s. With Unreal Engine 5 looking absolutely incredible and more accessible to small developers, we're going to see even your average run of the mill games completely outclass WoW's gameplay, which used to be fresh and innovative. Blizzard has always been great an innovating, and taking older ideas and polishing them to a perfect sheen. This talent that they possess has largely been wasted by continuing to publish a 17 year old game. Yes, people still play it and give them money, which is why Blizzard continues to develop it. But, I think players are becoming more and more aware of the gameplay disparity, and this is largely why dissatisfaction with the game is growing, not because of specific content. It will probably get to a point where they are caught with their pants down and suddenly the game is empty. BFA and SL were pretty clear warning signs. If Dragonflight continues with the dissatisfaction trend, we'll probably see a sequel, or a massive engine/visual upgrade at the very least.

NO player currently in the game is going to scrtap the characters they palyed for years to star al over again in a new game from scratch. Also, they already ahve multiple future expansions in the works, The game is not empty and it is still making money,

Wow2 is NOT going to happen. They won;t be massively overhauling the graphics engine either. Period.

- - - Updated - - -

That's what I mean. If WoW expansions continue to have poor reception (and I think they will), they'll just make a new game. People complain about lore as a reason expansions have done poorly, but Vanilla had no story at all. People didn't give a fuck that it didn't have lore. They played it because it was fun.

No they won't. The game is still profitable and still has a solid player base. AS I said, NOBODY is going to give up their years of working on their toons to start all over again. WoW2 WILL NOT HAPPEN.

- - - Updated - - -

TBH I'm hyped for indie company x's unreal engine 5 flappy bird with completely new gameplay which outclasses wow. Wow is just a stepping stone for the true top tier strategy games that developers are finally able to create now that the technology has caught up to their minds.

Graphics do not = great game. You can have the best graphics int he world and still have a terrible game.