Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Specialka]

I think you don't understand that the russian military is not like a western military. Let me paint you a picture:

>You are a russian soldier
>Your job is to figuratively and literally to suck your superior's cock and do exactly what you are told down to a letter
>Failure to execute the direct command of your superior officer leads to you getting beaten/raped/killed 100% of the time
>Taking initiative = going against the direct orders of your commanding officer
>All sense of personal initiative is beaten/raped out of you during your conscript period
>You exists to do as you are told, not to think.

There is no magical "sergeant class" that exists outside of this structure, that is free of the threat of physical violence for not doing exactly as you are told. The sergeants are beaten/killed by their lieutenants, the lieutenants are beaten/killed by their captains... Etc.

You do realize that the 3 last points are the same in western armies ? The rest is hyperbole on your part.

[Shadowferal]

The duties of an officer or nco may not be consistent with every country.

[Iphie]

@Gabriel

Russia has acknowledged the lack of the sergeant equivalent though, they opened a school for that exact purpose last year, but clearly it's not yet really implemented.

Otherwise you are absolutely correct about how the Russian army functions, complete obedience and following orders to the letter. "Orders are orders" isn't an excuse but damn if they aren't an example of that ideology.

[Verdugo]

You do realize that the 3 last points are the same in western armies ? The rest is hyperbole on your part.

There has to be a certain level of independence in the armies. For example, Iraq army during first guilf war was on about the same level of rigidnes as the Russians. There were reports that they were shelling the same place hours after enemy was gone just because they were not given any new orders, tanks just standing in place and blasting instead of using maneuvers and planes ignoring viable targets while going for an objective. This causes generals to micromanage the army on almost individual level which is just pointless.

[YUPPIE]

Does this count as an attack on the U.S?

May 1 (Reuters) - Russia's defence ministry said on Sunday it had struck at weapons supplied to Ukraine by the United States and European countries and destroyed a runway at a military airfield near the Ukrainian city of Odesa.

The ministry said it used high-precision Onyx missiles to strike the airfield, after Ukraine accused Russia of knocking out a newly-constructed runway at the main airport of Odesa.

Odesa regional governor Maksym Marchenko said Russia had used a Bastion missile, launched from Crimea.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...rce=reddit.com

[Gabriel]

You do realize that the 3 last points are the same in western armies ? The rest is hyperbole on your part.

Then you don't understand the cultural differences between western and russian armies, or are intentionally trying to view russian military through western lense for some godforsaken reason.

There are degrees of taking initiative, and while some initiative is encouraged on the squad level in western armies, it is completely absent in the russian military.

If anyone in the russian military knew how to use initiative, or act independently in the absence of direct line of communication to a commanding officer, they wouldn't be losing high ranking officers on the goddamn frontlines every single day.

[Specialka]

Then you don't understand the cultural differences between western and russian armies, or are intentionally trying to view russian military through western lense for some godforsaken reason.

There are degrees of taking initiative, and while some initiative is encouraged on the squad level in western armies, it is completely absent in the russian military.

If anyone in the russian military knew how to use initiative, or act independently in the absence of direct line of communication to a commanding officer, they wouldn't be losing high ranking officers on the goddamn frontlines every single day.

That is because those commanding officers are doing nco jobs as they are lacking those on the field forcing those commanding officers to expose themselves far more.

[Gabriel]

That is because those commanding officers are doing nco jobs as they are lacking those on the field forcing those commanding officers to expose themselves far more.

Colonels and generals are forced to do the job of NCOs?

Your stance on this subject is laughable.

Edit: I formulated my post wrong. This is what I meant:

You think there are no other steps between the grunts and colonels/generals that should be able to take initiative?

[Iphie]

Colonels and generals are forced to do the job of NCOs?

Your stance on this subject is laughable.

Edit: I formulated my post wrong. This is what I meant:

You think there are no other steps between the grunts and colonels/generals that should be able to take initiative?

Should be? Yes, are there in the Russian army? Not really no. There's captains and lieutenants but those are also very limited in their capacity of decision making.

[YUPPIE]

So the Russians have considerably escalated/doubled down on their aggressive assaults since yesterday ostensibly to meet Putin's May 9th deadline, of which he has announced he has a "special announcement" for...

What are the estimates/chances Russia will claim all of Ukraine by then, as it is going now

[Specialka]

So the Russians have considerably escalated/doubled down on their aggressive assaults since yesterday ostensibly to meet Putin's May 9th deadline, of which he has announced he has a "special announcement" for...

What are the estimates/chances Russia will claim all of Ukraine by then, as it is going now

The Special Announcement is most probably to say that the "Special Operation" has ended and is a success.

[YUPPIE]

On May 9 – known as Victory Day in Russia – President Vladimir Putin will need to make a bombastic and very public display to suggest he is winning the war in Ukraine.

But more than two months in, the war is going far from how Russia originally envisaged. May 9, then, might present Putin the occasion to declare a symbolic “victory” over Ukraine – a great demonstration of patriotic ecstasy aimed at shoring up his manipulated, sanction-weary audience.

The date marks the day Nazi Germany surrendered to Soviet forces (the day after its capitulation to the Western allies, which is why the UK, US and their allies commemorate victory on May 8).

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/29/opini...xey/index.html
https://www.newsweek.com/putin-may-d...ry-day-1702276

[YUPPIE]

What are you trying to say here? C’mon prophet. Predict the next 8 days.

what if it turns May 9th and Russia has not only not won the war, but accomplished squat?

It feels like they're ramping up their offensive so desperately because they fear Putin's wrath, which in and of itself is probably why morale is so fucked up with Russian troops.

[MCMLXXXII]

They're accomplishing nothing because they fear Putin when they accomplish nothing.
Heard it here first folks

[jonnysensible]

what if it turns May 9th and Russia has not only not won the war, but accomplished squat?

It feels like they're ramping up their offensive so desperately because they fear Putin's wrath, which in and of itself is probably why morale is so fucked up with Russian troops.

then the war will continue as it does now.

not quite sure why you are getting so excited.

[Gabriel]

Should be? Yes, are there in the Russian army? Not really no. There's captains and lieutenants but those are also very limited in their capacity of decision making.

My point is that training and deploying NCOs will do absolutely fuck-all for the ability of russian military to conduct operations, because the issue is not the lack of NCOs, but the entire mentality of how their military is run.

If they train more NCOs, they will just do the exact same fucking thing that the lieutenants and captains do when faced with a scenario that they do not have explicit instructions on how to deal with from their own COs; sit tight and wait for instructions from someone higher up in the command chain, so that they don't end up in the gulag for disobeying orders.

[MCMLXXXII]

then the war will continue as it does now.

not quite sure why you are getting so excited.

Don't lie, you know why he is getting excited.

[Specialka]

My point is that training and deploying NCOs will do absolutely fuck-all for the ability of russian military to conduct operations, because the issue is not the lack of NCOs, but the entire mentality of how their military is run.

If they train more NCOs, they will just do the exact same fucking thing that the lieutenants and captains do when faced with a scenario that they do not have explicit instructions on how to deal with from their own COs; sit tight and wait for instructions from someone higher up in the command chain, so that they don't end up in the gulag for disobeying orders.

Nope, because that is the role of NCO if you train them well. And let's be real, all sides will get lesson from that war.

[Gabriel]

Nope, because that is the role of NCO if you train them well. And let's be real, all sides will get lesson from that war.

You really think that totalitarian dictatorship will implement a training program in their military that will foster independent thought and train officers not to follow their orders to a letter?

Fucking lol.
Lmao, even.

[Specialka]

You really think that totalitarian dictatorship will implement a training program in their military that will foster independent thought and train officers not to follow their orders to a letter?

Fucking lol.
Lmao, even.

To a certain extent on a battlefield ? Certainly.