Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Jerot]

This seems to be the issue for a lot of people, and I'm sure it's an emotional reaction to the number, but I guess I can't be sure. But ultimately, no, I really don't care about the "whale cap". I don't even want to think about what Genshin whales have spent, and that's their prerogative.

Would it suck to spend that much and not get what you want? Sure. Would that deter me from whaling? Well, I guess so, but I would never whale to begin with. Do I see it as a problem in and of itself? No, not really. It might be a bad choice for Blizz because of just how non-deterministic it is compared to something like Genshin that at least has somewhat more reasonable pity systems. I don't know enough of the details of their finances to be sure.

At the end of the day, would I ever even entertain the idea of spending tens of thousands - or even just thousands, or even hundreds for that matter! - on stuff in a game? Hell no. I'm a huge miser. Do I think there should be some guardrails on that kind of spending? Perhaps, but really only insofar as minors should be kept away from it. Do I think it should be illegal for adults? Of course not.

Totally fair, and I agree that laws aren't necessarily the answer either. +1 on more safeties for minors from these games, adults can do what they want with their money.

Pay to win/predatory tactics aside, even for those who like to spend big, the systems just aren't set up well to support them. 99% of the cost is in gems, there aren't many low-mid tier systems to work your way up to spending more. It's very all or nothing and the rewards are inconsistent. Even Shroud who was all in on the monetization from the beginning, saying they were comfortable spending 20-40k on the game, are starting to question it and claiming it could take up to $500,000 to cap one character. What should have been a major win for blizzard is turning into a bit of a PR nightmare.

And the content caps are messing with the whales as much as they are the F2P players. It's all a bit of a mess.

As much as I would prefer the game wasn't pay to win, I know that isn't my call to make. At the very least I wish things were closer to beta where more serious players could somewhat keep up, or at least farm things without a bunch of hidden daily timers. It would be nice for people who like to play these kinds of games more than an hour or two per day. And I hope they tweak the f2p/p2w rewards to be more in-line with games like Genshin. More playtime + better value = more sales for blizzard = More content for everyone.

You can acquire perfect gear for free it just takes a long time.

This isn't true, look into awakening legendary items, they require a "Dawning Echo" which is premium. (Explanation here/P2) At the very least, perfect gear costs $85. Assuming you live long enough to grind that many gems playing everyday for decades straight. (If the rates stay the same as they are now) And even not using 5-stars for perfect gear, just entry level rank 1-star gems that are achievable in a few months as a free player. It still costs the same $85

[Aliven]

better game FOR YOU... for example if nobody plays it they might go with the pay2play or subscription instead of f2p, which is immediately WORSE for some people...
maybe next time try to think instead of assuming what you want is better for everyone...

Those people would not play the games. Games are LUXURY goods. They are not neccessary to live. At least we agree that would improve the quality of games.

[Devilyaki]

I took a look at Josh Strife’s video about this.. Wow didn’t know it was this bad.. 22 currencies-_-

[rhorle]

This isn't true, look into awakening legendary items, they require a "Dawning Echo" which is premium.

So the game is free except for Dawning echo. You can still play the entire game, including "non-story" for free. Though it does seem like an oversight that it isn't available for Platinum given you can buy and sell gems of any rank. I think rank 3 gems were something like 30k platinum at "suggested price" so it will take a while for someone to earn or get lucky enough for a drop they don't want to sell. It still doesn't make it a problem that it there is a pay wall for perfect gear when the rest of the game is currently free. You can get near-perfect for free and it is a mobile pay to win game so that is actually very tame on what is required to pay.

[Gref]

according to the people who did the math, it will take 10 years of play for an f2p player to max out their character.
10 years of content for free guys. come on now who has done it better before?

[Pyrans]

It would be nice for people who like to play these kinds of games more than an hour or two per day. And I hope they tweak the f2p/p2w rewards to be more in-line with games like Genshin. More playtime + better value = more sales for blizzard = More content for everyone.

I've been playing Genshin almost everyday since march last year, the only reason I can do that is because most of those days are <20 min for the 4 dailies, 160 resin and occasionally throwing a few min in for farming. Having spent 0$ I can say the primogems given each patch is much less than what the average would be needed to even "keep up" with content added (characters/weapons). Even ignoring the weapon banner I don't get enough to guarantee getting a character I actually want when their released.
DI is also suppose to have events every month* that will have rewards https://www.diablofans.com/news/4979...ent-for-diablo
Yes it's not going to be some crazy 50 leg crest a month bonus but it's more than what's being presented by those complaining.
(*maybe more maybe less)

according to the people who did the math, it will take 10 years of play for an f2p player to max out their character.
10 years of content for free guys. come on now who has done it better before?

Did "the math" take into account any rewards given from events not currently shown in game (see above).

[Elim Garak]

This is a fat lie. Even in games like onmyoji, whales do like 95% of boss dps on cooperative modes. Why do they "need" non-whales? Simple: they don't. Non-whales likely need whales, though.

To do cooperative mode with them obviously. Only 1-2% of players are whales. If only they play the game - there's no game.

- - - Updated - - -

according to the people who did the math, it will take 10 years of play for an f2p player to max out their character.
10 years of content for free guys. come on now who has done it better before?

Everyone who spouts that nonsense about 10 years and keeps playing the game - will get their character maxed to the current max by the end of this year.

[Nymrohd]

I'm looking back at your post history,I'm not even sure why we're arguing. Why were you agianst lost ark removing content to convince people to spend money, but you're ok with Blizzard making the game less fun to coerce people to spend money?

To be honest, when people argue like you do I go back to their history and it's almost universally formulaic, very predictable, but yours isn't. I don't really understand how you can be pro Blizzard in this instance.

I think there is exactly one contrarian libertarian in this thread. Most people who are OK with this seem to be people who played the game, found it fun and don't oppose it since the MTX gates being competitive in the game but doesn't really gate playing the game. We can still drop a couple of hours per day on this easily.

[SinR]

I too did the math.

2+2=Pie

[Twdft]

The entire game, and not just the story, can be played for free. There are no pay walls to content. You can acquire perfect gear for free it just takes a long time.

Quick question: how many legendary crests can you farm up f2p in let's say a week?

[BeepBoo]

To do cooperative mode with them obviously. Only 1-2% of players are whales. If only they play the game - there's no game.

I feel like if there were single player modes for these things, whales would do that instead. They literally do not NEED people to complete the content, and IIRC you're a nit-picky person and already argued with someone else about the difference between "need" and "want."

I also still don't think they care that much about flexing on randos. 1-2% of players are literally the only ones funding it in most F2P cases, so the game company doesn't "need" the F2P people to stick around, either.

Unless you have some evidence to prove the reason people whale is epeen stroking and pug-stomping in cooperative game modes (hint: GI basically doesn't HAVE a cooperative mode for all its hardest content, and yet... they still have an immense amount of whales), I'll remain unconvinced and stick with my feeling that "whales don't actually care if the f2p scrubs stick around."

[Nymrohd]

Quick question: how many legendary crests can you farm up f2p in let's say a week?

I think you only get two per month on f2p? One from the hilt trader and one from the free track of the battle pass. There may be more though, I only bought the cheap version of the battle pass and I am sure I've had more (the cheap version adds two more legendary crests on the battle pass).

Beyond that you can get a crazy amount from the bundles but that costs money. Maybe there are some one time free ones as well?

[crejack]

according to the people who did the math, it will take 10 years of play for an f2p player to max out their character.
10 years of content for free guys. come on now who has done it better before?

Why even bother to do that math? like this game is just gonna be static for 10 years? nope, they'll add new gems, new gimmicky things, new legendaries, new whatever, on top of higher spots to level that stuff up to. 10 years, psh, nah you'll die before you max out a character.

And yeah ARPG fans love the grind, fuck we'll grind thousands and thousands of hours while having a blast, but this bullshit is a fucking nope.

Though honestly idk why anyone is shocked. Like, we knew this was a shitty mobile game, 5 years ago. We've been bitching it's a shitty mobile game for 5 years. And now suddenly it's released everyone is shocked and outraged that it actually is a shitty mobile game, as if this wasn't obvious AF what this was gonna be when it was announced 5 years ago.

[Lolites]

countries that ban loot boxes online.

tbh countries that ban loot boxes (at least those few in eu, dunno worldwide) didnt "Ban" them really, just if you want to have them ingame you have to reveal a lot of data about it (probabilities, the "random" system behind it etc, not entirely sure what all it have to be), if blizz did that they could have D:I in those countries without doing any changes at all

[Elim Garak]

I feel like if there were single player modes for these things, whales would do that instead. They literally do not NEED people to complete the content, and IIRC you're a nit-picky person and already argued with someone else about the difference between "need" and "want."

I also still don't think they care that much about flexing on randos. 1-2% of players are literally the only ones funding it in most F2P cases, so the game company doesn't "need" the F2P people to stick around, either.

Unless you have some evidence to prove the reason people whale is epeen stroking and pug-stomping in cooperative game modes (hint: GI basically doesn't HAVE a cooperative mode for all its hardest content, and yet... they still have an immense amount of whales), I'll remain unconvinced and stick with my feeling that "whales don't actually care if the f2p scrubs stick around."

You can stick to whatever you want. Just know that you are wrong. Whales don't spend if there's no one to show off to. That's why Fortnite's Cosmetic only battle pass is so successful that even DI has it.

[Jerot]

You can stick to whatever you want. Just know that you are wrong. Whales don't spend if there's no one to show off to. That's why Fortnite's Cosmetic only battle pass is so successful that even DI has it.

Exactly, one of the main features of the game is the whole shadow vs immortals thing with the weekly 1 v 30 pvp event that lets you into the special "immortal club" if you win. With your character immortalized as a statue and free loot goodies for being the highest rank in "dominance". (A stat that goes up the more you play/pay)

Gotta have those F2Pers for whales to dominate.

There isn't a cosmetic-only battlepass though. There is a cosmetic tier if you buy the most expensive version, but it comes with all the in-game benefits (Including a bunch of Legendary Crests) of the empowered tier and even skips you ahead a bunch of ranks in it.

[Elim Garak]

There isn't a cosmetic-only battlepass though.

I never said that DI has a cosmetic only battle pass. I said fortnite has it and it was a successful mechanic (Fortnite was the first to "invent" battle pass), since then all games have battle pass. Why Fortnite has it only cosmetic - is quite obvious. It's PvP only.

[Jerot]

Did "the math" take into account any rewards given from events not currently shown in game (see above).

Most headline dollar vs time investment comparisons actually ignored the resonance system, which increases the number of gems you can use X6. (Also the additional 30 will be SPECIFIC gems based on your first 6. So each find has to hit the right 1/9 5-star)

If they gave us 50 legendary crests per month (The most generous estimates put us at 5) you're still looking at 44.4 months per 5/5 gem, and your character has room for 36 of them. Plus they each require 4,400+ gem power (1-stars are worth 1, 2-stars are worth 4, and combined account for >95% of gem drops) and 73 duplicates to rank up.

But to unlock resonance you'll need to rank up a gem to max and then pay 1,000 eternal orbs to buy a dawning echo per piece. (Paid only as of now, never a reward in beta events, $85 for all 6 with the most efficient packages. Or spend $100 and have 1200 left over)

Just getting your first 6 max gems, even at tier 1, and paying the $85 gets you 30% lower cooldowns and 30% increased damage from the awakening bonus. Not counting all the other stats it increases. The 5-star gem bonuses can be bigger than an entire hardcore F2Pers full set.

Gems/crests are the only uncapped system of power, everything else has daily/weekly limits even for mega whales.

The pity system will give you a 5/5 gem once every 100 triggers, or 5,000 rolls. The normal rate is about 1 every 2,222 rolls (4.5% to hit ?/5 gem, 1% for that to then roll 5/5)

I never said that DI has a cosmetic only battle pass.

"Fortnites cosmetic only battle pass is so successful that even DI has it" probably wasn't the best way to word that then.

Red ferraris are so popular even frank drives one.
Frank drives a red ferrari?
No, its black, ferrari's are popular though.

[edw]

The sad thing is that Diablo Immortal will probably be the most successful game they created (revenue wise). I'm seeing people spend money like Candy Crush levels, Blizzard will have there flagship ... and it's name is Immortal

[Vasilisa]

The sad thing is that Diablo Immortal will probably be the most successful game they created (revenue wise). I'm seeing people spend money like Candy Crush levels, Blizzard will have there flagship ... and it's name is Immortal

When this happens the only thing to do is to forget about this shitshow called Blizzard and it's rapegang at the helm.