How did RDF ruined the social aspect??.

[sykoex]

When they added RDF in the ICC patch it killed my guild because we mostly did heroics together.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

When they added RDF in the ICC patch it killed my guild because we mostly did heroics together.

Sounds like a bad guild. People like playing together.. doing heroics.. and then something comes out that doesn't stop you from doing it but you just stop doing it.

[Kikazz]

Dungeons are literally the lowest form of social interaction in WoW. Dungeons require very little if any communication to kill bosses. Most people in dungeons are looking for a quick in and out.

The fact it teleports you into the instance is such a small issue with the existence of flying and summoning. The proposed LFG tool doesn't fix any of the issues that RDF solves nor does it help foster "social interactions".

These are none issues in Wrath Classic, RDF on it's own is a fantastic tool that solves a major issue with older and irrelevant content.

it was the anonymity behind it, people could say/do waht they wanted and be absolute dicks to others in the community with no fear of repercussions or hold back,

it ruined the community aspect servers had built up over 2 expansion releases of the game,

as there was no accountability.

if you did some of the things people did in RDF, you wouldn't find easy groups on your server if the RDF was server based.

[sykoex]

Sounds like a bad guild. People like playing together.. doing heroics.. and then something comes out that doesn't stop you from doing it but you just stop doing it.

There needs to be a common goal that brings people together. When they first added RDF we were really excited because we could just spam dungeons all day without having to worry about lockouts any more. But after a while people stopped waiting for their favorite tank or healer to log on when they could just hit a button and instantly have their badges by playing with strangers. After a while the guild became superfluous. It devolved into just being a chatroom, we might as well have just been on IRC or discord.

[talmir]

There needs to be a common goal that brings people together. When they first added RDF we were really excited because we could just spam dungeons all day without having to worry about lockouts any more. But after a while people stopped waiting for their favorite tank or healer to log on when they could just hit a button and instantly have their badges by playing with strangers. After a while the guild became superfluous. It devolved into just being a chatroom, we might as well have just been on IRC or discord.

Good thing we can just press a button and get into mythic+ or non lfr raids then.
Oh wait...

Guilds still have a purpose. Arguably less so since cross-faction communities are a thing now (I use those myself) but guilds/communities absolutely still have a role above and beyond being a chatroom.

[Mysterymask]

There needs to be a common goal that brings people together. When they first added RDF we were really excited because we could just spam dungeons all day without having to worry about lockouts any more. But after a while people stopped waiting for their favorite tank or healer to log on when they could just hit a button and instantly have their badges by playing with strangers. After a while the guild became superfluous. It devolved into just being a chatroom, we might as well have just been on IRC or discord.

This is the problem with the community....y'all want to win more than you want the social aspect. Wrath exemplified this trope. If RDF killed your group it was probably shaky to begin with. You put purple pngs over the social experience of the game and your not paying the price.

Hell want another example people bitched to the high heavens on how to they hated the ICC buff (you know the one you can turn off) and when asked why you don't turn it off "Well the other guilds are using it"

[Low Hanging Fruit]

There needs to be a common goal that brings people together. When they first added RDF we were really excited because we could just spam dungeons all day without having to worry about lockouts any more. But after a while people stopped waiting for their favorite tank or healer to log on when they could just hit a button and instantly have their badges by playing with strangers. After a while the guild became superfluous. It devolved into just being a chatroom, we might as well have just been on IRC or discord.

So a better solution to do what they liked became available? Key word is better. People could have always just pugged it too without waiting. Not to mention when the favorite tank logged in they could have hit the button together without any worry of lock out. Also, to top it off it sounds like the guild remained social. Still chatted and stuff. So it really didn't kill socializing. It just made it to where if tanks and healers were lazy and didn't log in their friends could still do what they wanted. Over all net win.

[Nubpwn]

If RDF killed your group it was probably shaky to begin with. You put purple pngs over the social experience of the game and your not paying the price.

Hell want another example people bitched to the high heavens on how to they hated the ICC buff (you know the one you can turn off) and when asked why you don't turn it off "Well the other guilds are using it"

So a better solution to do what they liked became available? Key word is better. People could have always just pugged it too without waiting. Not to mention when the favorite tank logged in they could have hit the button together without any worry of lock out. Also, to top it off it sounds like the guild remained social. Still chatted and stuff. So it really didn't kill socializing. It just made it to where if tanks and healers were lazy and didn't log in their friends could still do what they wanted. Over all net win.

Again, what you people still aren't getting, is that players will almost always take the path of least resistance. Guess what? Guilds used to be that path. Changing that hurt guilds, a lot of them, period. Denying that is just plain ignorant.

The entire argument of "you can still do it" exemplifies the biggest issues with retail. You can still build a guild and run normals in retail!!! Oh wait, no you can't because those guilds don't fucking exist anymore, LFR murdered them and mutilated their corpses. Oh but technically, you can do it! Technically, you can manually form every dungeon group and manually travel to every dungeon entrance in retail. But technicalities don't mean shit to players when they want to actually play how they want. Players don't just choose the path of least resistance, it is a requirement.

"Why not turn off the ICC buff?" How incredibly stupid do you have to be to even ask this? Of course players are going to use it and they can still complain about it. "Hey I don't think an outright 5% - 30% buff to stats should be added" "Hurr durr you can just turn it off, idiot" "No... everyone else is using it too, why would I purposely put myself at a disadvantage?"

Again, this comes back to the argument that restrictions are a good thing. Why not just make the ICC buff 1000%? Let everyone one shot everything, stop time gating content by making bosses and trash take time to kill.

[Katchii]

Again, what you people still aren't getting, is that players will almost always take the path of least resistance. Guess what? Guilds used to be that path. Changing that hurt guilds, a lot of them, period. Denying that is just plain ignorant.

No one is denying it. What's being stated is that the social aspect wasn't the purpose of the guild to begin with, it was the game play element it accommodated, allowing people to do what they actually wanted to which was get into dungeons and raids.

The fact that a simple button allowing automated matchmaking ended up hurting these guilds shows that the people were actually getting what the wanted from that button.

I and several other people don't pay a subscription to this MMO to socialize inside of it, that's not the purpose, I do it to play the game, play my class, do my rotation, run dungeons, kill bosses and get gear. Socializing is a sometimes enjoyable byproduct of that, but it's absolutely not the reason I play.

The entire argument of "you can still do it" exemplifies the biggest issues with retail. You can still build a guild and run normals in retail!!! Oh wait, no you can't because those guilds don't fucking exist anymore, LFR murdered them and mutilated their corpses. Oh but technically, you can do it! Technically, you can manually form every dungeon group and manually travel to every dungeon entrance in retail. But technicalities don't mean shit to players when they want to actually play how they want. Players don't just choose the path of least resistance, it is a requirement.

You said it yourself right here. Socializing isn't why people pay a sub for this game. It's to actually enjoy the content the game has to offer. The only reason the "community" existed at all before the LFD tool was introduced was because people had to deal with it to do what they ACTUALLY wanted to.

"Why not turn off the ICC buff?" How incredibly stupid do you have to be to even ask this? Of course players are going to use it and they can still complain about it. "Hey I don't think an outright 5% - 30% buff to stats should be added" "Hurr durr you can just turn it off, idiot" "No... everyone else is using it too, why would I purposely put myself at a disadvantage?"

Again, this comes back to the argument that restrictions are a good thing. Why not just make the ICC buff 1000%? Let everyone one shot everything, stop time gating content by making bosses and trash take time to kill.

Again, if you think people just want instant satisfaction, you're delusional. Wanting to get into and play the content you want to play without having to do a song and dance in LFG chat, HOPING to get a group, or that you are able to join that guild group that is already going and hoping one of the members drops, or whatever is a stupid restriction to have in place.

I'm paying a sub to see and enjoy the content the game has to offer, not make nice with a bunch of strangers JUST to do that. I'm not going to deny that being in a social guild or in a fun social group isn't fun, it's fantastic...but that is NOT why I pay a subscription fee, it's a VERY distant side benefit.

[Nubpwn]

The fact that a simple button allowing automated matchmaking ended up hurting these guilds shows that the people were actually getting what the wanted from that button.

So you're admitting that you're fine with just pressing a button and getting loot, got it.

I and several other people don't pay a subscription to this MMO to socialize inside of it, that's not the purpose, I do it to play the game, play my class, do my rotation, run dungeons, kill bosses and get gear. Socializing is a sometimes enjoyable byproduct of that, but it's absolutely not the reason I play

Then go back to retail. That is literally what it is for. The entire reason classic exists is for everyone else that disagrees with you.

I'm paying a sub to see and enjoy the content the game has to offer, not make nice with a bunch of strangers JUST to do that. I'm not going to deny that being in a social guild or in a fun social group isn't fun, it's fantastic...but that is NOT why I pay a subscription fee, it's a VERY distant side benefit.

Again, just go back to retail then. You have no reason to play classic whatsoever when the entire point IS THE SOCIAL ASPECT. It's not a "side benefit" it is the entire point. Based on your arguments you must be pretty damn stupid to play classic when retail is objectively better in every way that matters to you. Classic isn't for you, retail is so go enjoy it.

[Katchii]

So you're admitting that you're fine with just pressing a button and getting loot, got it.

That's not what I said. Don't twist my words.

Then go back to retail. That is literally what it is for. The entire reason classic exists is for everyone else that disagrees with you.

The reason Classic exists is so people can experience the game as it was back then. And so Blizzard can make money. WotLK in the ICC patch had LFD.

Again, just go back to retail then.

No?

You have no reason to play classic whatsoever when the entire point IS THE SOCIAL ASPECT.

The entire reason is NOT the social aspect. That's what you're trying to argue, and I'm saying that's woefully inaccurate. The social aspect is there, but that's not the ONLY reason people are playing.

It's not a "side benefit" it is the entire point.

It IS a side benefit. The fact that LFD killed guilds almost immediately after being introduced because it met their needs better than any guild is proof of that.

Based on your arguments you must be pretty damn stupid to play classic when retail is objectively better in every way that matters to you.

Again, stop trying to twist my words, or put words into my mouth. I never said any of this.

I enjoy the Classic experience. But I'm not playing it for the social aspect, I'm playing it for the game play experience, the dungeons, the class design as it was back then, for the world itself to be a huge aspect of the overall experience. If you think the social aspect is the only thing that's different between Classic and Retail, you're not paying very much attention.

Classic isn't for you, retail is so go enjoy it.

Who are you to tell me what's for me and what's not? Get over yourself.

[Nubpwn]

That's not what I said. Don't twist my words.

Yes, it is. Unless you clarify otherwise, that is exactly how I am going to interpret your words. Because that's exactly what they mean.

The entire reason is NOT the social aspect. That's what you're trying to argue, and I'm saying that's woefully inaccurate. The social aspect is there, but that's not the ONLY reason people are playing.

The entire reason IS THE SOCIAL ASPECT. That absolutely is what I am trying to argue, duh. I am saying your argument is woefully inaccurate to the point of being revisionist history. The reason wrath was so much better was the social aspect no matter how much you try to deny it.

I enjoy the Classic experience. But I'm not playing it for the social aspect, I'm playing it for the game play experience, the dungeons, the class design as it was back then, for the world itself to be a huge aspect of the overall experience. If you think the social aspect is the only thing that's different between Classic and Retail, you're not paying very much attention.

But you don't enjoy the classic experience, you've made the extremely clear. You enjoy this weird perception you have as to what classic is but only describe retail features. You don't like classic, you want to ruin classic to be just like retail. You are so far and above beyond wrong if you really think dungeon and class design and the main reasons people preferred wrath, that's just plain delusional.

Who are you to tell me what's for me and what's not? Get over yourself.

I am part of the community and I am a human that is capable of reading. I read your words, that is how I know what is for you and what is not, you told me. Just because you don't even understand what you yourself want doesn't mean others can't. Blizzard is more than right when they say you think you do but you don't, because you clearly don't know what tf you want so I'm going to tell you. Sorry you got butthurt being told what you yourself have said.

You and all the other comments shitting on classic because it doesn't bend to retail babies are part of the toxic community. We. don't. Want. Retail... GO BACK IF YOU DO

[Katchii]

Yes, it is. Unless you clarify otherwise, that is exactly how I am going to interpret your words. Because that's exactly what they mean.

No, it's not. And you framing it that way says more about you and your apparent inability to understand the argument than it does about me and your projected instant gratification bullshit.

The entire reason IS THE SOCIAL ASPECT. That absolutely is what I am trying to argue, duh.

And I'm calling BS. you don't speak for the entire community. I'm one of the players of Classic too and the social aspect is not the primary reason I play. And I know of at least a few dozen others who feel the same way.

I am saying your argument is woefully inaccurate to the point of being revisionist history. The reason wrath was so much better was the social aspect no matter how much you try to deny it.

It's not revisionist history. I never said anything about WotLK being better. I said LFD catered to the kinds of players who only wanted to play the game and experience the content better than a guild did, that's why many of them died very shortly after LFD was introduced. People weren't in guilds for the social aspect, they were using them as a tool to get to the content they actually cared about. Those people didn't socialize because they WANTED to, they were only being social because they HAD to.

But you don't enjoy the classic experience, you've made the extremely clear.

At what point have I ever said I don't enjoy the Classic experience? Point to where I said I don't like Classic, give me examples where people who are playing Classic, who are asking for LFD, have stated outright that they're not enjoying the Classic experience.

You enjoy this weird perception you have as to what classic is but only describe retail features.

You're seemingly incapable of actually understanding any argument or discussion that doesn't agree with your own.

You don't like classic, you want to ruin classic to be just like retail.

Again, stop projecting your own words onto me. I DO enjoy Classic. WotLK had LFD. I have played Classic since it launched and raided.

LFD improved my game play experience immensely. That's why I want it.

You are so far and above beyond wrong if you really think dungeon and class design and the main reasons people preferred wrath, that's just plain delusional.

Riiiight. Again, you don't speak for the entire community. I, and many others like me, are part of it too. Get over yourself.

I am part of the community and I am a human that is capable of reading.

So are some 4 year olds, congratulations. That doesn't mean you're capable of understanding. Which seems to be your problem.

I read your words, that is how I know what is for you and what is not, you told me. Just because you don't even understand what you yourself want doesn't mean others can't. Blizzard is more than right when they say you think you do but you don't, because you clearly don't know what tf you want so I'm going to tell you. Sorry you got butthurt being told what you yourself have said.

You realize Blizzard was flat out wrong with that statement right? Because that was said in relation to relaunching Classic servers. They were woefully inaccurate about that. Nice self own there buddy.

And I know what i said. you're the one failing to understand what it actually says. you're latching on to a single feature and stating that because of that ONE thing, I must dislike everything else. That's an insane argument. you're ridiculous.

You and all the other comments shitting on classic because it doesn't bend to retail babies are part of the toxic community. We. don't. Want. Retail... GO BACK IF YOU DO

Again, try and find the people who play Classic asking for LFD who are "shitting on classic."

As petty as this might be because it's a meme at this point... you don't pay my sub. And you also don't speak for the entire community. We're not asking for retail.

Get.Over.Yourself.

[Nubpwn]

No, it's not. And you framing it that way says more about you and your apparent inability to understand the argument than it does about me and your projected instant gratification bullshit.

Lmao you just double down with the "no you" with no further explanation.

I'll explain one more time. RDF and LFR content is so stupidly braindead that it is equivalent to just pressing a button and getting the same rewards. You can disagree all you want, but the CLASSIC community feels the same way. Period. End of discussion.

You should probably get over yourself and listen to others for a change.

[Katchii]

Lmao you just double down with the "no you" with no further explanation.

I'll explain one more time. RDF and LFR content is so stupidly braindead that it is equivalent to just pressing a button and getting the same rewards. You can disagree all you want, but the CLASSIC community feels the same way. Period. End of discussion.

You should probably get over yourself and listen to others for a change.

You're the one claiming I want instant gratification. That's not what I said, ever.

I'm not asking for current LFR and LFD content, I'm asking for the tool that was in WotLK when it was t the ICC patch.

And the Classic community is apparently not aligned on your view considering I'm part of the community and we're even having this discussion.

[Nubpwn]

You're the one claiming I want instant gratification. That's not what I said, ever.

I'm not asking for current LFR and LFD content, I'm asking for the tool that was in WotLK when it was t the ICC patch.

And the Classic community is apparently not aligned on your view considering I'm part of the community and we're even having this discussion.

You are in the minority whether you want to believe it or not. Even the tool that was in WotLK is one step too far down the slippery slope. And hell, it's not even a slippery slope, it's a complete rock slide. We know what that tool lead to and it only gets worse from there. That tool is not needed and never was.

[Katchii]

You are in the minority whether you want to believe it or not.

I've never claimed otherwise. But I'd be curious what actual numbers are. If you have feel free to share them. (this isn't meant to be condescending or anything, honest ask)

Even the tool that was in WotLK is one step too far down the slippery slope. And hell, it's not even a slippery slope, it's a complete rock slide. We know what that tool lead to and it only gets worse from there. That tool is not needed and never was.

I never said it was needed, I think it would improve my enjoyment of the game, the same way it did back then.

Change it up a little bit, keep it locked to server only and don't let it teleport you. The only function is to create groups. As I've said before, spamming LFG or spending time trying to find group requests within the cesspool of random LFG garbage is NOT game play.

[Nubpwn]

I've never claimed otherwise. But I'd be curious what actual numbers are. If you have feel free to share them. (this isn't meant to be condescending or anything, honest ask)

Fair enough, I don't really know the numbers specifically. It's just the sentiment I have seen the most so I will admit it could swing either way.

I never said it was needed, I think it would improve my enjoyment of the game, the same way it did back then.

Change it up a little bit, keep it locked to server only and don't let it teleport you. The only function is to create groups. As I've said before, spamming LFG or spending time trying to find group requests within the cesspool of random LFG garbage is NOT game play.

I think the method of "spamming LFG" leads to better gameplay because the players actually have to care more since they've spent time and effort building the group. Instant queue RDF leads to worse gameplay and dumbed down content because bad players get there fast and complain when it's not easy enough. The time gating caused by building the group is what leads to players caring more, and thereby playing better, since they've already invested their time.

However, I do get the feeling Blizzard is going to implement RDF at the end like they did before anyways. The one argument that classic players will be sympathetic to is the #nochanges argument. That is the only reason why I would be okay with RDF at the end but I am still very hesitant to say it's okay because Blizzard has already decided to abandon #nochanges.

[Katchii]

I think the method of "spamming LFG" leads to better gameplay because the players actually have to care more since they've spent time and effort building the group. Instant queue RDF leads to worse gameplay and dumbed down content because bad players get there fast and complain when it's not easy enough. The time gating caused by building the group is what leads to players caring more, and thereby playing better, since they've already invested their time.

I disagree. I've gotten bad groups and players that don't care in both scenarios. They don't play better. The players are just forced to stick with bad groups because they don't know if or when they'll get another one.

This isn't "socialization" it's being forced to be "nice" in an effort to not destroy the group so you can complete the content you're there for in the first place. That doesn't build a sense of community, it actually makes me resent it, in cases like that.

However, I do get the feeling Blizzard is going to implement RDF at the end like they did before anyways. The one argument that classic players will be sympathetic to is the #nochanges argument. That is the only reason why I would be okay with RDF at the end but I am still very hesitant to say it's okay because Blizzard has already decided to abandon #nochanges.

Fair.

[grandgato]

When they added RDF in the ICC patch it killed my guild because we mostly did heroics together.

For my guild it was pet battles. Basically removed any reason to play the game at that point.