Russian invasion of Ukraine

[enigma77]

I mean, he's definitely frightened people though. The goal is to explicitly spread terror and misery, and from what I saw this morning, people were absolutely afraid and left shocked.

14 civilians have died. 14.

Terrible crime, yeah. But irrelevant, as far as the war goes.

This criminal act of desperation only hastens Russia's humiliating defeat.

[Kaleredar]

The issue with simply killing putin is that he will just be replaced by another autocrat. So you get a putin 2.0. or 3.0 or 4.0 etc.
As for blame, this is not only levied at Putin, the russian leadership, command or the soldiers involved.
The blame is placed on the russian people as a whole.
If their against/ for/ or have no opinion on the conflict, it doesn't matter, ultimately the russian people allowed it to happen.

You could say that was going to happen after every despotic episode of failure in the Soviet Union, though. But with each regime change they became slightly less horrible and megalomaniacal, with each new leader basically just blaming all of the current failures on the previous leader while advocating some minor change. And often times the people that became the new leaders were parts of the old leadership.

And the Russian people strike me as largely simply... apathetic. What's it to them if Russia kills some Ukrainians? Even if they have a problem with it, speaking out against it wont 1) change what Russia is doing and 2) will likely just result in them being punished. Towing the line costs them nothing... except the gradual backslide of their country into one of political and economic strife, but that's for future them to worry about. Current them is more worried about bringing home the turnips and not being black bagged.

But if the war were to end... what would they care? Especially if they could all essentially point to Putin as being "the wrongdoer" in an attempt to wash their hands of the situation. They draw no benefit from its continuation either.


Now, whether someone has support or apathy for a war of brutality aren't meaningfully different while the war is being conducted, as they both work to ensure the brutality continues. But if the war were to end, they aren't going to push to continue it. They're just going to keep on trying to bring home those turnips and not get black bagged by whatever the new status quo is.

Fighting a war takes conviction, a conviction that is entirely pinned upon Putin right now and one that doesn't seem to be universal even within the Russian government. Without that conviction, Russia's government strikes me as one with absolutely no spine, and if they have what is an effective easy out and easy scapegoat for this war were Putin removed from leadership, they'd likely take it.

[Lahis]

The issue with simply killing putin is that he will just be replaced by another autocrat. So you get a putin 2.0. or 3.0 or 4.0 etc.
As for blame, this is not only levied at Putin, the russian leadership, command or the soldiers involved.
The blame is placed on the russian people as a whole.
If their against/ for/ or have no opinion on the conflict, it doesn't matter, ultimately the russian people allowed it to happen.

No matter who "wins" or if this conflict ends tomorrow; I do not see sanctions going away for a generation, 20-30 years.
But yes, on a longer timeframe, gradually relations will normalize.

Still I doubt things will return entirely to normal, I do not think the eu will ever make itself reliant on russian gass again.
And russias role/influence in the region as the regional main industrial/production power or hub:
That will be greatly diminished.

Regional power will shift to the west, probably to poland/hungary.
Foreign workers travelling to work at russian factories will be a thing of the past.

That will have a very negative effect for development in russia, It would in effect lock the country deeper in as a raw materiel supplier.
Without the means to refine/ produce end goods.
On the flipside it will be very positive for development/ prosperity of the eastern block countries, in many ways the regional dominance of russia has been keeping them down.

Russia has been acting the same for centuries, so defenestrating Putin will sadly not end this, atlests not permanently. The whole culture and governship style is rotten. So yeah, sanctions need tp stay for decade or two to put thäem in place.

[Iphie]

Russia has been acting the same for centuries, so defenestrating Putin will sadly not end this, atlests not permanently. The whole culture and governship style is rotten. So yeah, sanctions need tp stay for decade or two to put thäem in place.

You know, you're right, however with the russian mindset of "boohoo! Everyone is against us, we're innocent", I can't actually see that working either.

I don't have a solution for that either, though lifting sanctions won't be soon, beyond perhaps those that affect the general population. (Lifting visa restrictions for example might happen sooner than lifting economic sanctions.)

[Strawberry]

So Ukraine is calling Russia a terror state (which it is) while using a suicide bomber to bomb the bridge. Suicide bombing is terror.
I was never a fan of suicide bombings or fanatics.
On a side note, living next to Russia is worse than living in it.

[Gabriel]

So Ukraine is calling Russia a terror state (which it is) while using a suicide bomber to bomb the bridge. Suicide bombing is terror.
I was never a fan of suicide bombings or fanatics.
On a side note, living next to Russia is worse than living in it.

Proofs?

It was probably GPS tracked bomb slipped to some smuggling shipment.

[zorkuus]

So Ukraine is calling Russia a terror state (which it is) while using a suicide bomber to bomb the bridge. Suicide bombing is terror.

You're spreading ruZZian propaganda.

[Corvus]

So Ukraine is calling Russia a terror state (which it is) while using a suicide bomber to bomb the bridge. Suicide bombing is terror.

There is still doubt if it even was a truck bomb or not to start with. And zero evidence it was a suicide attack.

[Lathspell]

So Ukraine is calling Russia a terror state (which it is) while using a suicide bomber to bomb the bridge. Suicide bombing is terror.
I was never a fan of suicide bombings or fanatics.
On a side note, living next to Russia is worse than living in it.

Defense forces bombing an illegal bridge in their own country is not terror no matter how they do it.

[Dracullus]

Of course Ukraine isn't 100% clean, even west Allies in 1944 France were not. They still were good guys compared to nazi Germans.

Russian propagandists and whataboutists exploit fact that West has some moral compass and many has no idea about scale of atrocities done by Russia and China. They always try to muddy waters to enforce idea that everyone is dirty and it's fine to settle things using brutal force.

Then we end up with people comparing blowing up strategic bridge to attacking multiple civil targets out of spite.

[Lahis]

Finnish Ministry of Health recommends people stockpile Iodine capsules.

[zealo]

So Ukraine is calling Russia a terror state (which it is) while using a suicide bomber to bomb the bridge. Suicide bombing is terror.
I was never a fan of suicide bombings or fanatics.
On a side note, living next to Russia is worse than living in it.

That bridge is a legitimate military target, even though the ruskies don't like to admit that fact. It is a major supply artery for the Russian military in their invasion and occupation of southern Ukraine.

[YUPPIE]

Russian war hawks demand more brutal attacks than 10/10/2022

Russian nationalist commentators and state media’s war correspondents lauded Monday’s attack as an appropriate, and long-awaited, response to Ukraine’s successful counteroffensive in the northeast and the south and a weekend attack on a key bridge between Russia and Crimea, the prized Black Sea peninsula Russia annexed in 2014.

Many argued, however, that Moscow should keep up the intensity of Monday’s missile strikes in order to win the war now. Some analysts suggested that Russian President Vladimir Putin is becoming a hostage of his own allies’ views on how the campaign in Ukraine should unfold.

“Putin’s initiative is weakening and he is becoming more dependent on circumstances and those who are forging the ‘victory’ (in Ukraine) for him,” Tatyana Stanovaya, founder of the independent R.Politik think-tank, wrote in an online commentary Monday.

“The fear of defeat is so strong, especially for those who are now fully immersed in this military venture, that Putin’s indecisiveness, with his logic of ‘we have not started anything yet’ and ‘restrained tactics have paid off’ has become a problem,” the analyst said.

[Strawberry]

Proofs?

It was probably GPS tracked bomb slipped to some smuggling shipment.

No one is going to call it suicide bombing in the west because of social stigma towards suicide bombing and pro-Ukraine media.
Simple as that.
But someone did drive that truck and I bet you can't just put that much explosive without the driver noticing, lol.

[Gabriel]

No one is going to call it suicide bombing in the west because of social stigma towards suicide bombing and pro-Ukraine media.
Simple as that.
But someone did drive that truck and I bet you can't just put that much explosive without the driver noticing, lol.

And why is that? They probably just paid someone to drive the truck and told the driver it was smuggled goods.

[Strawberry]

And why is that? They probably just paid someone to drive the truck and told the driver it was smuggled goods.

Did not happen. It was timed to blow up the train as well. It had to be visual and not by GPS.

[YUPPIE]

let's not pretend Ukraine isn't guilty of war crimes or shady shit. Remember that assassination of Darya Dugina was confirmed to be from Ukraine by US officials. They're also guilty of torturing Russian POWs. Spectators of the unfolding carnage in Ukraine are also ecstatic over Russians suffering the most brutal deaths possible. If you do go see combat footage, footage of Russians graphically bleeding out or getting exploded gets cheered on.

But given Russia is doing all those like a billion times more and started this whole thing, no one is going to really care about Ukrainian atrocities.

[Gabriel]

Did not happen. It was timed to blow up the train as well. It had to be visual and not by GPS.

And why is that?

Besides, you think there is no way to get visuals on the bridge from anywhere else except the car? pfft.

[KrayZ33]

Did not happen. It was timed to blow up the train as well. It had to be visual and not by GPS.

Why did it not happen?

Driver came from Russia's side.
Pretty sure it's just some kind of suicide drone or a missle fired from a drown, not an actual suicide bomber in a car, especially since the car has to pass checkpoints to even get on the bridge and the backdoor was opened/closed at that checkpoint.

And why would the explosion travel sideways enough to damage the train and not just "up".

[Poopymonster]

"You see, it was a valid military strike because if this war drags on for another 10-15 years the kids of today will be the murderous Nazi soldiers of tomorrow!" - A Russian minister, probably.

We are having report of Kiev missile strike casualties: 9 Nazi men. 7 Nazi women. 12 Nazi children. and 1 Nazi dog. Suspicious cat lurking nearby of uncertain affiliation.