[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Anzaman]

Its getting a little funny to see people keep going "WHY ARENT YOU NERFING RDM" when our damage is pretty middle of the road" I'll just sit here getting no changes, flipping my rapier in the air.

I don't need any logical reason, just nerf jobs that I don't play to the ground and buff mine.

[Granyala]

Its getting a little funny to see people keep going "WHY ARENT YOU NERFING RDM" when our damage is pretty middle of the road" I'll just sit here getting no changes, flipping my rapier in the air.

Keep in mind that most play w/o a parser. They see the aggro from RDM soar and think it equates to uber DPS.

[Graeham]

I think a lot of people just don't understand how each job 'fits'. SAM, for instance, is criticised for high DPS despite that being the only thing it brings to the table due to a severe lack of utility beyond a slashing debuff that may not be useful at all for anyone other than the SAM depending on the group makeup.

Plus SAM was added purely because so many people were clamouring for a melee DPS that wielded a sword. Myself included.

[Deleted]

I have yet to understand what kind of utility a DPS brings other than DPS.

RDM has raise, Bard/MCH has mana regen or something.

the rest? +Crit/+%dmg is not utility, it's dps.
CC doesn't work in raids, damage reductions are job roles.

Sure thing, a class without any +% dmg cooldowns for the group need to have higher potencies etc... at the same time however, these cooldowns aren't worth doing 500 dps less.

Samurai has one of the best "utilities" in the game for DPS, it can hoard burst ressources without losing overall DPS or not using cooldowns.

[dope_danny]

At the end of the day i would consider utility to mean anything that makes the group as a whole stronger. If you only have skills to make yourself stronger then eat shit and die to something random? thats a huge detriment compared to someone who can pop something like battle litany before they die. You may need to be ressed and be weaker but you have still improved the others in your party for a time to compensate.

Personally part of the reason i enjoy RDM beyond the gameplay is that in my group content i can dualcast for an instant res if a party member dies and thats less of a burden on the healer. Thats a dps doing no dps for a second but in my experience if the healer/s have swiftcast on cooldown thats a potential domino wipe avoided and in the long run is worth it. On something like SAM i can be doing damage sure. But if i see a healer or tank die what can i do? sweet bugger all really.

Its different person to person but i always think of the tolkein line 'the party only moves as fast as the slowest member' and if you are dead with no support potential at all thats you.

But of course there are people that play mmos that purely want the tunnel vision damage dealer experience, but thats the beauty of the party experience really theres room for both. God knows a RDM-SAM combo works wonders in every situation without a massive trash pull to clear in my experience.

[Deleted]

Its different person to person but i always think of the tolkein line 'the party only moves as fast as the slowest member' and if you are dead with no support potential at all thats you.

if you are dead, you are the slowest no matter what - even if you have support. You might suck less, but then again does a CD make up for it in this game? I doubt it. CDs are strong early in the fight, because they line up with other classes cooldowns, they are a lot weaker in the middle of it.

[Graeham]

...and that's Omega done for the week. At least until Tuesday.

[Aruhen]

I have yet to understand what kind of utility a DPS brings other than DPS.

RDM has raise, Bard/MCH has mana regen or something.

the rest? +Crit/+%dmg is not utility, it's dps.
CC doesn't work in raids, damage reductions are job roles.

Sure thing, a class without any +% dmg cooldowns for the group need to have higher potencies etc... at the same time however, these cooldowns aren't worth doing 500 dps less.

Samurai has one of the best "utilities" in the game for DPS, it can hoard burst ressources without losing overall DPS or not using cooldowns.

Ninja is the only class with actual utility that isn't a damage buff of sorts without using cross class abilities. Monks technically do have Mantra but it's not as useful I'd say.

Bard and Machinist have Palisade and Bard has the healing buff alongside the TP/MP. Casters have a similar thing to Palisade but I can't remember the name. They (casters) also have the ability to give healers mana. Yeah whatever they're cross class abilities but they're still there and incredibly helpful.

Also DPS buffs are a utility even if you don't think they are. It even fits the description of the word if you want to be technical.

[Museigen]

The frustration with RDM is misguided, it's frustration at their own job which is placed under a spotlight as bright as the sun thanks to RDM existing. RDM has infinite mana baseline, instat rez every other GCD, a cure that actually moves players hp bars and has a "rotation" that's hard to mess up. It's also not punishing if you do mess it up and they have some mobility if you require it.

Compare it to SMN where you went from the mobile caster last xpac to the immobile ruin caster, physick might as well not exsist (QQ sustain), you run out of mana single target and AoE, bane is a dps loss to use in nearly every situation, bahamut is 3 minutes of buildup and clunky as hell and none of that buildup persists through death. Die on smn? You might be ready to play again by the 3rd trash pull after this fight. Derphamuts GCD is shorter than the players but he can't use oGCDs, yet he only attacks when you do (if you're not moving...). So in order to try to maximize him you have to cast a ruin II then wait .5-1 sec and use an oGCD to get two wrymweaves but still have him weave again on your next ruin II. On top of that he's not a "pet" so all the threat goes to you but he still has pet potency so 30% less than a players, making that beautiful 680 akh mourn is really a 476 potency hit from a player. By example RDMs fleche is 420 player potency, instant, no cost and on a 25 second CD.

Getting a strong 11 weave double akh mourn bahamut is 2184 pot, it takes 3 stacks of aetherflow to do so lets say 3 minutes. (That's incorrect as the duration of bahamut goes over it but it makes it simple) 2184 / 180 (seconds) = 11.9 pps. Fleche is simply 420(pot)/25(seconds)=16.8pps. Pressing fleche on CD > bahamuts 3 minutes of build up and difficult/clunky execution.

PS: Forgive cranky SMNs because they are a cluster of complication despite the amazing demi bahamut feeling. Also healers keep them alive even if they're standing in stuff or it can cost 3 minutes of buildup which will just make your run take longer.

Edit; Forgot to pet pot reduce wyrmweave.

[lawow74]

Huzzah! All mount speed increases bought as of today! NO MORE DERPY FUCKING BOSS FATES!

Now to completely ignore Allied Seals for a year and then return to casually collecting them prior to the next xpac in case they pull some shit like this again.

[Granyala]

Huzzah! All mount speed increases bought as of today! NO MORE DERPY FUCKING BOSS FATES!

Now to completely ignore Allied Seals for a year and then return to casually collecting them prior to the next xpac in case they pull some shit like this again.

Meanwhile I only visit the old zones once every week to gather sth, so no reason to put in the effort for a minor speed increase.

[StrawberryZebra]

Getting a strong 11 weave double akh mourn bahamut is 2184 pot, it takes 3 stacks of aetherflow to do so lets say 3 minutes. (That's incorrect as the duration of bahamut goes over it but it makes it simple) 2184 / 180 (seconds) = 11.9 pps. Fleche is simply 420(pot)/25(seconds)=16.8pps. Pressing fleche on CD > bahamuts 3 minutes of build up and difficult/clunky execution.

PS: Forgive cranky SMNs because they are a cluster of complication despite the amazing demi bahamut feeling. Also healers keep them alive even if they're standing in stuff or it can cost 3 minutes of buildup which will just make your run take longer.

Bahamut is a 2 minute cooldown, not 3. The cooldowns required also tick down while Bahamut is active, so it'll be 2 minutes between summoning him and summoning him again. I agree with you that he's very underwhelming for the effort invested in summoning him, and even worse if you're not actively sabotaging your personal DPS to get the most out of him.

You're right though, there are a lot of things that can go wrong and tank a Summoners DPS. Not only death, but things like Festers travel time hitting during a bosses invunlrability or Bane randomly deciding not to work. I could deal with that though if the job wasn't just so damn boring now.

Also DPS buffs are a utility even if you don't think they are. It even fits the description of the word if you want to be technical.

Quite a lot of the new DPS buffs are very annoying to use though. Like the Summoners Aetherpact, which has just as much chance of going on a healer as a DPS. Or the Dragoon's Eyes, which are just plain awful to maintain. Hell, I even forget about Chain Strategem on my Scholar most of the time.

Good DPS buffs are great utility, like Balance cards, Battle Voice etc. Ones which are too difficult to use properly to bother with are pretty much never going to be comparable to simple Fire and Forget buffs. For reasons best known to themselves, Squenix have this idea that skills having usablity issues means the can bolt more power onto them because of it.

[Aruhen]

Dragon's Sight (not eyes) and Aetherpact aren't abilities I'd consider the reason you'd bring a class for. Abilities like Hypercharge, Chain Stratagem, Bard songs, Trick Attack and so on are the reasons you bring certain classes alongside resistance debuffs. Oh and Dragon Sight while annoying to use isn't that bad and it's being buffed to 12 yards so it should be even more trivial. Aetherpact I agree on and should be changed.

Either way, just because you deem something annoying or hard or whatever doesn't mean it doesn't have a place. By your definition Astrologian would be worthless because you cant reliably get Balance and most of the other cards are okay at best.

For reasons best known to themselves, Squenix have this idea that skills having usablity issues means the can bolt more power onto them because of it.

The abilities that are the most "annoying" to use are also the weakest.

[lawow74]

Meanwhile I only visit the old zones once every week to gather sth, so no reason to put in the effort for a minor speed increase.

It's a good deal more than minor, IME. It's very nice to have, though it was a PITA to get.

[StrawberryZebra]

The abilities that are the most "annoying" to use are also the weakest.

I was refering more to skills in general than buff skills specifically. Skills like Fey Union, Bahamut, Dragon Sight and Divine Benison. They're plagued by horrendous usability issues to make up for their supposed "power".

[Museigen]

Bahamut is 2 minute if you do it wrong, you need aethers to get oGCDs for weaves.

[Arewn]

Ninja is the only class with actual utility that isn't a damage buff of sorts without using cross class abilities. Monks technically do have Mantra but it's not as useful I'd say.

Bard and Machinist have Palisade and Bard has the healing buff alongside the TP/MP. Casters have a similar thing to Palisade but I can't remember the name. They (casters) also have the ability to give healers mana. Yeah whatever they're cross class abilities but they're still there and incredibly helpful.

Also DPS buffs are a utility even if you don't think they are. It even fits the description of the word if you want to be technical.

In the context of video games, utility usually refers to something that aids you in ways outside of simply enhancing the potency of your role. So dps increasing effects often aren't looked at as "utility", while something that pulls an ally to you, an AOE shield, CC in some cases, etc are more so what's on people's minds.

In the context of ffxiv though, I think the term gets used in the same way "support" is. i.e. pretty much anything which enhances those around you (including the above mentioned effects).

It's all pretty muddled and context dependent. I don't think there's a hard set "definition" for the use of the term "utility" in so far as it is used as jargon in gaming (in other words, not talking about the literal dictionary definition).

[Aruhen]

In the context of video games, utility usually refers to something that aids you in ways outside of simply enhancing the potency of your role. So dps increasing effects often aren't looked at as "utility", while something that pulls an ally to you, an AOE shield, CC in some cases, etc are more so what's on people's minds.

In the context of ffxiv though, I think the term gets used in the same way "support" is. i.e. pretty much anything which enhances those around you (including the above mentioned effects).

It's all pretty muddled and context dependent. I don't think there's a hard set "definition" for the use of the term "utility" in so far as it is used as jargon in gaming (in other words, not talking about the literal dictionary definition).

True but in FFXIV it all gets thrown into the same bag. When you ask a person in game what a DRG's utility is they'd tell you Battle Litany and piercing debuff. MNK is probably the best example of this as now people want MNKS because all you hear is "MNKS finally have a utility ability!".

It is pretty muddled though I agree. If you asked me the same question in WoW then I'd probably say that no, that doesn't count as utility. FFXIV of course is a different game and classes interact differently compared to WoW. Damage dealing classes performance is based around what they bring to the table. SAM? nothing so it does naturally higher dps. BRD? Much lower but it also brings a crap ton of stuff to enhance the rest of your group.

Of course this all falls flat when it's not properly balanced but that's a discussion for another day.

[Eleccybubb]

Tanked my first ever dungeon. DRK in Amdapor Keep Hard.

Think I can do better but all that dummy training paid off. I think I can manage Dark Arts a bit better especially with Souleater. I lost emnity once and that was because I derped and forgot there are another set of glob adds that spawn on the trash to the final boss.

[Jinxz]

So at what point does the stormblood story get good, I just met the turtle guy and the MSQ has not impressed me at all. TBH it's been quite boring apart from the big fighting cutscene.