Subscribe to december 20 to get your complimentary cartel points ?

[notorious98]

i was still interested in this game i would be playing it, i am not so i check from time to time, and this game isn't much important for me anymore, for me this is simply a shitty move from BW because i already earned them by being a subscriber nearly since the release plus i bought CE of this game.
It doesn't matter if Turbine and BW have different F2P models, all that matters is i got saying ok you earned that points but to access it you need to pay us once more, i deserve them because they are rewards for me being a former subscriber and owner of CE of this game.
I know i will lose if i do not subscribe but it is like saying :" you won a reward in lottery but you need to pay us some more to be able to access it at all, sorry for not saying that at all".
I do not really care that much about it, it is more saying here are few presents for you but you cannot access it before paying us some money. That i am angry about.

I'm going to be honest here and it took me a while to get to this point myself, but they didn't HAVE to give you shit. You aren't entitled to anything. You may think that you are, but you aren't. The world would be a better place if people didn't have the attitude that shit should be given to them. Get over yourself.

As for Turbine, you brought them up, so it obviously DOES matter. But guess what. You still had to be subscribed in order to receive Turbine points that were earned through a subscription. Same thing goes with EA. Same thing goes for every other game that has switched to a F2P model.

[Deleted]

It depends. Are they complimentary cartel points provided because you're a subscriber? If so, it would be like having a complimentary mini bar in your hotel room and asking why you had to hire the room.

No it would be more like the hotel offering you a free room and telling you the minibar also doesn't cost anything, but if you want access you need to pay for the room.

[notorious98]

Well - if you dont realise that cartel bag shopping is based on a gambling impulse then I think you are might not quite understand why this feature was added. Cause it had nothing to do with gaming. Cause if it was.... then a good game developer would have created a good solid RPG system around it - instead of slot machine features.

I can't help ppl that dont admit issues. All I can do is to point it out and then find a good game that is build on real RPG systems where player has more effect on the outcome rather than just putting money into the slot machine. Thats why I resubbed to WOW after 10 mins of looking at SWTOR F2P model.

Uh......huh? What difference does it make if the cartel bag is "gambling". Everybody gets to spend their coins on whatever the hell they want. If you subscribe and you don't like any of the other shit in the cash shop, buy a bag. I don't get why the hell it matters if they exist or not. Sometimes I believe people will grasp at the tiniest shit and try to turn it into the most glaring problem that ever existed. And the fact that you resubbed to WoW has nothing to do with TOR. You did it because you wanted to play WoW. I swear, the logic people use sometimes is just so ridiculously insane.

---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 02:34 PM ----------

No it would be more like the hotel offering you a free room and telling you the minibar also doesn't cost anything, but if you want access you need to pay for the room.

Both analogies aren't broad enough to work for this situation. You can't really create a one sentence analogy to explain it.

[Deleted]

Both analogies aren't broad enough to work for this situation. You can't really create a one sentence analogy to explain it.

I can write the same thing in 3 sentences, does that make it better? :P

[Sinras]

i was still interested in this game i would be playing it, i am not so i check from time to time, and this game isn't much important for me anymore, for me this is simply a shitty move from BW because i already earned them by being a subscriber nearly since the release plus i bought CE of this game.
It doesn't matter if Turbine and BW have different F2P models, all that matters is i got saying ok you earned that points but to access it you need to pay us once more, i deserve them because they are rewards for me being a former subscriber and owner of CE of this game.
I know i will lose if i do not subscribe but it is like saying :" you won a reward in lottery but you need to pay us some more to be able to access it at all, sorry for not saying that at all".
I do not really care that much about it, it is more saying here are few presents for you but you cannot access it before paying us some money. That i am angry about.

Bolded the points I wanted to address:

You did not earn them by being a former subscriber. You earn them by being a present subscriber, or re-subscribing. This is a simple "gift" for current and previous subscribers, provided they continue to patronize the game.

Your Lottery analogy is horribly flawed, and no where close to what EA/Bioware is doing. The closest analogy I can think of would be a Car dealership, where you bought (previous subscriber) or leased (current subscriber) a car 4 years ago, and they send you a letter saying "If you buy or lease a new car buy 12/20/12 we will give you $5,000." EA/Bioware's Cartel Coin bonus is a reward for current and returning customers.

[Kelimbror]

Your Lottery analogy is horribly flawed, and no where close to what EA/Bioware is doing. The closest analogy I can think of would be a Car dealership, where you bought (previous subscriber) or leased (current subscriber) a car 4 years ago, and they send you a letter saying "If you buy or lease a new car buy 12/20/12 we will give you $5,000." EA/Bioware's Cartel Coin bonus is a reward for current and returning customers.

Except everyone likes to gloss over the fact that they purposefully had it stated otherwise when the initial announcement was made, in a cheap ploy to get people to resubscribe and start earning their coins. Then, the month before F2P launches, we get the bombshell dropped (on accident btw) that you have to be subbed to get them.

The backlash was so fierce they quickly added a month grace period to try it out before you lose the coins. This has already been discussed ad nauseum though. So, meh.

[Arlee]

Except everyone likes to gloss over the fact that they purposefully had it stated otherwise when the initial announcement was made, in a cheap ploy to get people to resubscribe and start earning their coins. Then, the month before F2P launches, we get the bombshell dropped (on accident btw) that you have to be subbed to get them.

It might not be glossing over, it might be actual forgetting. I have noticed that many people on the internet seem to have bad memories. Something is a week old then it's been that way forever.

[Kelimbror]

It might not be glossing over, it might be actual forgetting. I have noticed that many people on the internet seem to have bad memories. Something is a week old then it's been that way forever.

I'm trying to forget, because it makes me all pissed off and regret resubbing for this month. Hopefully they give some kind of announcement regarding future content, with videos and pictures to prove it is real, so that I can believe in something.

[notorious98]

I can write the same thing in 3 sentences, does that make it better? :P

It will make it just as inaccurate as your 1 sentence analogy, so no. It's more complex than that.

[Eldryth]

Except everyone likes to gloss over the fact that they purposefully had it stated otherwise when the initial announcement was made, in a cheap ploy to get people to resubscribe and start earning their coins. Then, the month before F2P launches, we get the bombshell dropped (on accident btw) that you have to be subbed to get them.

The backlash was so fierce they quickly added a month grace period to try it out before you lose the coins. This has already been discussed ad nauseum though. So, meh.

Umm, no, that was in the original announcement, and we were reminded several times. I knew about this the day F2P was announced (I know since I nearly resubbed then to guarantee I got it, before rereading the announcement and realizing that wouldn't work). Since then, it was mentioned in multiple emails to previous subscribers, and the Cartel Coin page in account management told you you would have to resubscribe to get them. There was plenty of warning, and absolutely no reason for backlash about that.

As to whether this was a good decision on Bioware's part is another matter, and I'm not sure on that myself. That doesn't change the fact that there was plenty of warning.

[leafs43]

You'd think they would try and build goodwill with returning players but in the end they make you pay for something they say you have earned.

[Kelimbror]

Umm, no, that was in the original announcement, and we were reminded several times. I knew about this the day F2P was announced (I know since I nearly resubbed then to guarantee I got it, before rereading the announcement and realizing that wouldn't work). Since then, it was mentioned in multiple emails to previous subscribers, and the Cartel Coin page in account management told you you would have to resubscribe to get them. There was plenty of warning, and absolutely no reason for backlash about that.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

We have screenshots to prove it. Please move along.

[Arlee]

Umm, no, that was in the original announcement, and we were reminded several times. I knew about this the day F2P was announced (I know since I nearly resubbed then to guarantee I got it, before rereading the announcement and realizing that wouldn't work). Since then, it was mentioned in multiple emails to previous subscribers, and the Cartel Coin page in account management told you you would have to resubscribe to get them. There was plenty of warning, and absolutely no reason for backlash about that.

As to whether this was a good decision on Bioware's part is another matter, and I'm not sure on that myself. That doesn't change the fact that there was plenty of warning.

The original announcement was literally that former subscribers would earn cartel coins for each month they subbed before (originally there were no bonuses for the type you bought). They did not mention anything about having to resub to get them.

[Deleted]

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

We have screenshots to prove it. Please move along.

I hear ya I really do.

However CE owners who scanned the original announcement knew that they'd have to be subbed on the day F2P launched. IN order to get their complimentary 1000 coins and Hero banner. They knew as it said so plainly in the text.

Timeline:

31st July: Announcement that TOR would be going F2P in fall and first mention of the coins.

1st August: Some people on the TOR forums found the smallprint regarding the CE coins/Banner and noticed this: OFFER VALID FOR PURCHASERS OF STAR WARS™: THE OLD REPUBLIC™ (“SWTOR”) COLLECTORS EDITION WITH ACTIVE PAYING SUBSCRIPTION ON DATE OF FREE-TO-PLAY SERVICE LAUNCH.

This was the day after the initial announcement. No change had yet been made to any wording. The initial announcement was simply unclear (as always with BW it seems).

September the 22nd: A BW interview was released that specifically mentioned the proviso (ACTIVE PAYING SUBSCRIPTION ON DATE OF FREE-TO-PLAY SERVICE LAUNCH.) and all hell broke loose on this forum. However some people already knew this back on August 1st due to the original wording. My point is that though insanely unclear the CE owners at least (of which I am one) knew within 24hrs of the promotion being announced if they read the fineprint. No bait and switch occured just the usual terrible wording by Bioware.

Here are some quotes from August 1st (24hrs after the world first found out about TOR's cartel promotion):

'it clearly states when f2p goes active so it just means an active account on the date the change hits.'

'All it says is that you have to be subbed when f2p launches.'

'If you unsub now.... and are not subbed when it goes freemium, you forfeit the coinage.This is not rocket science. Now we can step aside and let all the conspiracy promoters to start in about how this is a marketing ploy to keep people subscribed. But lt me pre-answer that anyway.....DER.... ALL marketing ploys for MMOs are to keep people subbed.'

More quotes if needed. Just to prove that some already knew what everyone else would find out on the 22nd of September. They knew back in August as it was there in the fine print for CE owners.

Eldryth is wrong though on the 'plenty of warning' part as obviously not everyone had understood the 'must be subbed when launch occurs' part. Some did, the majority didn't.

[Kelimbror]

*snip*

Sorry, we have screenshots on this board that proves that small print said nothing about requiring a subscription at launch. Nothing. I don't care what people said, or a time line of what people said, we have an exact replica of the page that had the information. I don't care if the information was different somewhere else, or they made some statement saying otherwise in the recesses of the internet, because the official page said what it said.

I'm really not trying to be hostile, but what is seen and documented and posted on here cannot be unseen.

Additionally, who gives a shit about the CE owners? If you got some special E-Mail then this issue is even worse than it ever was. Communicating different things to different people is fuck all man. I'm glad that Bioware feels like you are a special snowflake, but they basically swindled the rest of their customers.

In fact, you just convinced me to not give them any more of my money. Thank you.

[Deleted]

Sorry, we have screenshots on this board that proves that small print said nothing about requiring a subscription at launch. Nothing. I don't care what people said, or a time line of what people said, we have an exact replica of the page that had the information. I don't care if the information was different somewhere else, or they made some statement saying otherwise in the recesses of the internet, because the official page said what it said.

I'm really not trying to be hostile, but what is seen and documented and posted on here cannot be unseen.

Will you agree that the initial announcement was made on July 31st?

Well, I posted in the thread regarding this issue back on August the 1st. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=513953

How did I and others know the day after the announcement what you found out only on the 22nd of September (50 days later)? I may be able to edit my own posts from august the 1st but can I edit other peoples' too?

[Alvito]

PROTIP:

They are hardly complementary if you have to pay to get them.

Wait BW is saying something that isn't 100% true!?! The tricky ways they try to word things or how they treat ppl that have and do still pay them is just to much to deal with sometimes.

OT You have to sub up to get your Cartel points you have already earned and yes if you don't do it soon they will be lost.

---------- Post added 2012-11-20 at 04:40 AM ----------

Sorry, we have screenshots on this board that proves that small print said nothing about requiring a subscription at launch. Nothing. I don't care what people said, or a time line of what people said, we have an exact replica of the page that had the information. I don't care if the information was different somewhere else, or they made some statement saying otherwise in the recesses of the internet, because the official page said what it said.

I'm really not trying to be hostile, but what is seen and documented and posted on here cannot be unseen.

Additionally, who gives a shit about the CE owners? If you got some special E-Mail then this issue is even worse than it ever was. Communicating different things to different people is fuck all man. I'm glad that Bioware feels like you are a special snowflake, but they basically swindled the rest of their customers.

In fact, you just convinced me to not give them any more of my money. Thank you.

Yeah they were very shifty about coming right out and saying you had to sub to claim your coins at first. They worded things that made it seem like you might have to but dodged answering direct questions on it for almost 2 months. The fact that they care more about ppl that might give them a few dollars over the ppl that have already given them a few hundred and most likely would have kept given them more pisses me off. One of a few reasons why I will not give them anymore payments. Once again poor customer relations chips away at the game. This isn't anything new though the Cartel coin bull crap is very much like the pulling of ranked warzones the night before the patch after they dangled the carrot on that for 3 months. I would trust a hunger dog with a steak more then I trust anything that the BW/EA ppl say or do now.

[Deleted]

I'm going to be honest here and it took me a while to get to this point myself, but they didn't HAVE to give you shit. You aren't entitled to anything. You may think that you are, but you aren't. The world would be a better place if people didn't have the attitude that shit should be given to them. Get over yourself.

As for Turbine, you brought them up, so it obviously DOES matter. But guess what. You still had to be subscribed in order to receive Turbine points that were earned through a subscription. Same thing goes with EA. Same thing goes for every other game that has switched to a F2P model.

No i am simply saying what they told at the beginning, the said you will get cartel points for being a former subscriber plus 1000 CP for having collectors edition. I understand it this way: the game goes f2p and they want to somehow compensate the former players who were subscribe something extra and as a bonus of having CE you get a bonus too.

From my understanding this is somehow you already earned. Plus your car analogy isn't fitting here sense. You want analogy with a car be my guest, here it is.

You bought a car and was renting some stuff only avaliable to people how pay rent every month for it. Now everyone can get this staff free, so they call we know we are giving this stuff for free, but we want to reward you for being loyal customer for the last month and want to give you a bonus.
Ok so give me the bonus, oh no we cannot because you need to rent this staff for another month at least, so you be eligible for the reward we want to give you.

This is totally stupid.

First they say you earned that stuff for being previous subscriber and owner of CE and then they say you haven't earned it yet because you need to pay us for another month.

For me this is BS behavior.

---------- Post added 2012-11-22 at 12:07 AM ----------

Wait BW is saying something that isn't 100% true!?! The tricky ways they try to word things or how they treat ppl that have and do still pay them is just to much to deal with sometimes.

OT You have to sub up to get your Cartel points you have already earned and yes if you don't do it soon they will be lost.[COLOR="red"]

That is why i am thinking of not playing anymore or even deleting the account.

It is one thing saying we give bonus to former player, and then stating you can't have them until you pay us more.

[gabrield]

Sorry, we have screenshots on this board that proves that small print said nothing about requiring a subscription at launch. Nothing. I don't care what people said, or a time line of what people said, we have an exact replica of the page that had the information. I don't care if the information was different somewhere else, or they made some statement saying otherwise in the recesses of the internet, because the official page said what it said.

I'm really not trying to be hostile, but what is seen and documented and posted on here cannot be unseen.

Additionally, who gives a shit about the CE owners? If you got some special E-Mail then this issue is even worse than it ever was. Communicating different things to different people is fuck all man. I'm glad that Bioware feels like you are a special snowflake, but they basically swindled the rest of their customers.

In fact, you just convinced me to not give them any more of my money. Thank you.

You really need a happy pill, I have never seen you post positively.

[Tyronight]

PROTIP:

They are hardly complementary if you have to pay to get them.

Couldn't agree more.