5.4 KJC changes.

[SLSAMG]

The most OP talent in the game got nerfed. How surprising.

Care to explain how exactly?

Quoted from Gahhda

"How is KJC broken in any way? The only classes not on the damage while moving bandwagon are mages (lol 75% crit chance with scorch...damage sucks so hard while moving) and shadow priests, who genuinely suck at movement...the interval on starsurge/moonfire/sunfire for balance druids is so low that the penalty for movement isn't very great.

Affliction gets ~half its dps from channel/cast.

Demo gets a very hilarious estimate of 10-15% of their dps from shadowbolt, supposing you can also lower the dps a bit more because of fel flame/hellfire spam while moving not being as much DFPS.

Destruction gets 80% of its dps from single target channel/cast.

This isn't a nerf to an op talent, because the only spec its 'op' for is already the worst single target spec of the three.

Not to mention the fact that demo/affliction cleave are both instant, all of destros cleave potential is tied to single target nukes."

[Snowmist]

Also on fights such as Tortos, it's all about constant movement...the dps is gonna nose dive without it. Even those who use Manaroth's fury will see their dps bottom out on that fight.

[Terridon]

Joke's on them, we don't have an ability called Kil'jaden's Cunning!

In all seriousness I could have sworn they just said they were fine with casters casting on the move....

Jay has it right on. Blizzard has said time and time again that they are fine with casters moving with no penalty. Tbh i'm not going to get worked up about this because they probably won't change it at all anyways. The 30% slow is more then enough and in a a lot of situations its to much.

They just can't design a spec like aff that needs very high MG uptime, then not let us move. If anything they needed to just make it so all casters had some form of KJC. Because i'm really tired of all the nonwarlocks out there that qq because they don't understand it. I mean its like Skeying everywhere practically.... Yet people call it op... Bunch of derps imo.

They didn't mind the movement itself, but warlocks have high damage, mobility and utility.
They said they wanted to nerf one of them, probably the mobility, just a week or two ago.
Warlocks get howl of terror on base, and affli get reduced cd on it each time they get hit, and you get a root-ability instead(of howl of terror in the talent tree).

So you get more to get people of you, instead of slowly running with a melee beating you.
I love to be able to run around while dps'ing, but honestly not sure it's a nerf. Guess most will want to take the cone-root, against melee, and then be happy just to run away and dps on distance.

[sugarfree]

NOt to mention KJC is the ONLY thing that makes Demo remotely viable in PvP and helped Destro a lot because of unlimited interrupts with no DR's. We're no mages or elemental shamans which have roots and INSTANT RELIABLE BURSTS to give us time to deal some damage. How hard does a Chaos Bolt deal again, now everyone has 65% resilience baseline? It's not worth casting over 3 seconds, ESPECIALLY with this nerf, we are going to get gutted and a Chaos Bolt will no longer see the light of day since it will be interrupted all day till Sunday. What the hell are these developers thinking???

You think cataclysm warlocks were good? LOL, Affliction was a great support, not a good DPS all over. Demo and Destro were dead because of MOBILITY issue being one of them (aside from low burst).

We're actually back to the state, only being turrets, not being able to cast, while warriors and rogues get MORE buffs to their tools and survivability.

F--ck this crap.

[Deleted]

One thing is certain > if this goes live, or in any other form that practically removes KJC for the majority of the warlock gameplay, the class is going down in numbers. I don't main a character anymore, because of work engagements but I still enjoy my warlock the most because of KJC (it may sound superficial, but it is exactly so), it just reminds me so much of the superb combat mechanic in guild wars2, it just feels awesome.

[Samariel]

The funny thing is, the thing I miss most about KJC when running Mannoroth's Fury is being able to cast Soulwell, soulstone and summon my pet while moving. After a wipe, by the time I get gate/demonic circle/soulwell up the rest of the raid has already eaten and is ready to pull, summoning the pet while running to the bosss is a nice time saver. KJC's quality of life improvement goes beyond just being able to keep up your dps on movement.

[EvreliaGaming]

Uh.. Nobody takes Burning Rush.

Uh, yes they do. Why would you take anything else?

[Manthis]

They didn't mind the movement itself, but warlocks have high damage, mobility and utility.
They said they wanted to nerf one of them, probably the mobility, just a week or two ago.
Warlocks get howl of terror on base, and affli get reduced cd on it each time they get hit, and you get a root-ability instead(of howl of terror in the talent tree).

They never said anything about mobility, mitigation was their concern.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...acy-Comics-391

[Leonofhyjal]

Ok anyone that says KJC is OP for affliction is a moron. Blunt but you need to hear it. Look at it this way. When was the last time a spec got nerfed by ~30%? Mid expansion? Hmm because I can't think of one (bug excluded). Warlocks in general are designed around KJC. Aff getting ~30% of its damage from channeling MG is a beautiful mechanic imo. Fel Flame is not and I mean not an option. It goes to the very building blocks of Affliction needing to snapshot dots for good dps.

Even if blizzard makes up the dps loss with some other form of buff it just doesn't make sense. It would have to be something that's completely passive. 30% more dot damage? Sorry but I don't think that would be a good trade off. It would make it for aff would be a spec that even brain dead children could play. MG uptime to get more ticks of your dots is something we can actually min/max as opposed to something passive being 30% of our damage.

I know nonwarlocks will be all over me for this comment but warlocks with KJC aren't the problem. It's all the other casters that can't dps very well on the move. As blizzard has said before, if fact only a few weeks ago, we are fine with having full dps on the move. The turret style of ranged dps is dying and should be dead imo. That means that blizzard doesn't want all casters to be stuck in the stone age. Warlocks were probably their test the waters class for movement while casting.

Overall though I don't believe this change will make it live. It goes against everything blizzard or GC have been saying for months now. Blizzard isn't and never has completely reworked a class just because whiny babies qqed about something that they don't even understand. Especially when the KJC model is the way of the future for all casters.


Infracted for flaming

[Deleted]

it would have made a lot more sense to me, if they had limited KJC to just our main fillers like MG/DS/incin/shadow bolt. to change it the way they did, pretty much makes all of our lvl 90 talents not worth taking, i guess they figured, its best to go from 1 worthless talent, 1 situational talent and 1 QoL life talent to 3 worthless talents, now we'll have to carefully pick which talent to use, if it wasnt for the fact that we would prolly be able to do equally well with or without them bcoz the lvl 90 doesnt really improve our class anymore, they barely did b4.

[Leonofhyjal]

Hey Evrelia. Do you think this change will go live? If so how bad a place will affliction be in? People seem to listen to your opinion more then mine lol.

[Deleted]

If this KjC nerf goes through I want blizzard to remove fel flame mechanic. I don't want to spam Fel Flame while moving and refresh my good dots with sh!t dots, rather take the damage only.

[Leonofhyjal]

Even then FF damage is pretty crap compared to MG.

[Mnevis]

summoning the pet while running to the bosss is a nice time saver. KJC's quality of life improvement goes beyond just being able to keep up your dps on movement.

Pop into Meta and summon him. The soulwell-while-running-towards-the-group thing I'll miss though, agreed.

Maybe KJC should have charges. If you stand still while casting a Shadowbolt/Haunt/ChaosBolt you gain a charge, starts at two, goes up to 10 or whatever. That way, if it's a fight with sporadic movement, it'd work out OK, but you couldn't constantly move. If it's a fight with heavy movement phases 60sec apart, if you were good you could build up charges to make it through, whereas with a 90sec cooldown you'd be SoL every other Get Away! (or you know, whatever the next raid has). 15sec out of 90 is so arbitrary, and awkward.

I'm really leaning towards the belief that casters should just be able to cast and move. I mean, some of us denizens of Azeroth have figured it out, it's just the evolution of magic. Kind of like how everyone figured out how to ms and cc and aoe heal, instead of just Warriors and Mages and Shaman. And as we all know, it's more fun to be able to run around and dodge things, than to not be able to handle moving your feet and your hands at once. But that's not a mid-expansion change, and neither should this be.

[Jessicka]

I think they will change it, and I fully support it.

[Leonofhyjal]

Why though Jessicka? Maybe give us some fixes for aff if they do change it?

I mean lets face it. If they only change KJC Affliction in top end raiding will be non existent.

[Floopa]

Care to explain how exactly?

Warlocks already do huge DPS, arguably they're the best DPS class in the game right now. Giving them the opportunity to perform their best rotation with no disadvantage is of course overpowered. Scorch is a huge DPS loss for a Mage, if they move it's normally because they can use the globals on Inferno Blast / Pyroblast. Shadow Priests can do barely anything when they move either. Same for Druids. Maybe tier 6 talents need to be redesigned (I agree a 'buffed' SWG is underwhelming for t6) but are you really surprised it took them this late to nerf such an absurd talent?

[Deleted]

do we know if it will trigger a gcd yet?

[Jessicka]

Why though Jessicka? Maybe give us some fixes for aff if they do change it?

I mean lets face it. If they only change KJC Affliction in top end raiding will be non existent.

Aff has been balanced around having poor mobility from the start; that's why it overperforms: This talent negates that weakness. Furthermore, I think it makes players lazy; movement is a big part of encounter design, and this talent means this spec isn't suffering from it and it makes the class overly desirable relative to other casters. If it did, the class would be down there with Hunters on the meters who are balanced around having good mobility.

I'm not too concerned; firstly I main spec Demo, and secondly I've had years of experience moving with instant casts so instinctively I massively under-utilise this talent when I spec it as a result, so I only spec it to cheese things like the knockback on Twins anyway.

Lastly, it pisses me off that so many bad FOTM rerollers play Warlocks just for that talent.

[Biruta]

I'll stop to play again... "Warlocks fun factor nerfed by 700%"