Trials of Ascension, Shady Practices and the Big Crowdfunding Debate

[Scyclone]

I've been asked not to drop names or references to anything specific/internal.

This forum thread has nothing to do with UO except someone who played UO and want to make similar game.

That.... is kind of a dull response .

[dextersmith]

In all seriousness though, I really do wish I had the programming skill/know-how to develop a game. Plenty of ideas, system balances, and many other things documented, but when it comes to actually coding the damn thing, I am as lost as it gets. Despite my knowledge/experience doing some web application development, I get a bit lost looking at PHP (as opposed to my usual VB.NET or C#.NET)... took a peek under the hood on Ruby and became even more confused. Hmm hmm..

When I made small games, solo and with others, I found I didn't want to play them anymore because I knew everything inside out.

[Bodoh]

That.... is kind of a dull response .

long story...

the last time I dropped names on a forum, the other guy who I referenced to, private message me over Skype asking to remove it.

so I stopped it

it's hard to remove topics to remove a certain person's name once quoted or added on-topic.

then google indexes it, and it' so hard to get that removed.

[Scyclone]

long story...

the last time I dropped names on a forum, the other guy who I referenced to, private message me over Skype asking to remove it.

so I stopped it

it's hard to remove topics to remove a certain person's name once quoted or added on-topic.

then google indexes it, and it' so hard to get that removed.

Understandable, I just see it more as an accomplishment really. I consider the developers of UO to be something of my video game heroes, honestly. They created something that captivated me from being 9 years old, into leading me into the IT field full on. I owe a lot of my creative approaches to the business challenges that my team and I face at work, due to the inspirations born in me from something like UO.

Sounds childish I know... but I had joined the beta with my dad, joined up with a large guild that founded UOs first full player ran city. Being a kid and being able to build something that etched into the history of UO, and to grow up in full contact with many of the people I met there is something else. Even today, I still occasionally talk to and visit people I met from our guild that was born almost 20 years ago.

In truth, I want to develop games or at least manage to have my game concepts/worlds/etc brought to fruition if for nothing more than to create that sort of experience for someone else. I could care less about the money or the fame (though a sensible person wouldn't turn down either ) but it is a true driving passion, and one that I feel if I could convey it properly, hopefully some of that can be given off to someone else. You know what I mean?

[pyrephoenix]

Like his blog about his car ride in the country and dragons eating cows? Are dragons and cows in the game yet? I mean is there a game yet? I suspect these weekly meetings are glorified pizza parties held over skype.

If it weren't for the fact they've managed to talk their computers into cooperating with Youtube, I'd delicately suggest that Skype's probably beyond their limited capacity.

[Azrile]

When I made small games, solo and with others, I found I didn't want to play them anymore because I knew everything inside out.

Yeah, it really is a bit like the hot dog factory analogy. Once you see the inside of a hot dog factory, you never want to eat them again. I like playing the first few hours of games like The Forest, Ark and stuff like that because to me it is funny trying to identify the artwork. I can literally see a fern and tell you where it came from. That palm tree.. yep... But the hardest thing for me is that stuff that is easy to do gets credit, but real innovative stuff mostly gets overlooked by the average player. The only fun is playing something and thinking ´how the hell did they pull that off without killing my framerate´..

But yea, this ToA thing is getting old.. another week, another ´we are thinking of this´.. And this new inventory system that Brax is talking about? you mean like UO had and dozens of other games.

If it weren´t for UO and Life is Fuedel, he would be saying that having a tree was innovate.

[Bodoh]

Skype

I use Skype daily here. It should not affect productivity.

A below-average 2d artist would finish huge concept art in 1 week,

A below-average 3d modeller would finish good quality model in 1 week.


At the rate they are going, they would spend another 10 years (total: 25 years).

I think they are funding their retirement plan.

- - - Updated - - -

I can imagine when they are geezers and grandmothers.


Why, my whole life has been running a ponzi scam for 20 years!

[dextersmith]

Yeah, it really is a bit like the hot dog factory analogy. Once you see the inside of a hot dog factory, you never want to eat them again. I like playing the first few hours of games like The Forest, Ark and stuff like that because to me it is funny trying to identify the artwork. I can literally see a fern and tell you where it came from. That palm tree.. yep... But the hardest thing for me is that stuff that is easy to do gets credit, but real innovative stuff mostly gets overlooked by the average player. The only fun is playing something and thinking ´how the hell did they pull that off without killing my framerate´..

But yea, this ToA thing is getting old.. another week, another ´we are thinking of this´.. And this new inventory system that Brax is talking about? you mean like UO had and dozens of other games.

If it weren´t for UO and Life is Fuedel, he would be saying that having a tree was innovate.

Btw when I say small games, I mean puzzles and such. I tried opengl but hated it. I like doing guis and back end stuff.

[dextersmith]

So do people like Xan still get equity since they've done work or are people fucked when they're aggravated enough to be considered forcefully ejected from the project? Is this a new scam business model? How many times can they give out the same piece of equity? At this rate, they'll end up passing out that 90% share they were reluctant to part with, except it won't be for money coming in and the game won't be made.

[lawow74]

I assume that agreement is null and void at this point, just like they're under no obligation to give anything to the people who donated. And most likely, if someone stops working on the project, they can just be fired and get nothing for what they put in. So either they keep throwing their time in the hole, or they give up.

And eventually, the Stooges either end up with enough in the hole to claim they made something, or they give up too.

[Azrile]

So do people like Xan still get equity since they've done work or are people fucked when they're aggravated enough to be considered forcefully ejected from the project? Is this a new scam business model? How many times can they give out the same piece of equity? At this rate, they'll end up passing out that 90% share they were reluctant to part with, except it won't be for money coming in and the game won't be made.

I am not completely sure, but on the KS I have been a part of, the people that email you and ask to help you ´promote´ your KS ask for a percentage of the KS money once it succeeds, not a share in the company. My guess it is the reason Xanword waited until the KS failed to really blow off on the devs... because at that point, he had worked for them a year for nothing. But that is just speculation.

Nobody knows the ´transparency´ part of the contracts they are giving out now. But think about it.. he said that you earn more share based on how much work you do.... but this is a guy that does not know anything... how can he determine how much work something is. Like I said, he put up and advertisment to buy a script that took less time to code than his advertisment took to write. Would he give that ´coder´ a bigger part of the company for that script? How can someone who after 8 months couldn´t turn on the server have any idea how hard or easy something is to do? He will give out a bigger share of the company to someone who wrote a few pages of lore as to the guy who did demo island for them? This is a guy who just spent $67,000 for a kickstarter that earned $25,000... I am not sure I would trust his business calculations.

- - - Updated - - -

Understandable, I just see it more as an accomplishment really. I consider the developers of UO to be something of my video game heroes, honestly. They created something that captivated me from being 9 years old, into leading me into the IT field full on. I owe a lot of my creative approaches to the business challenges that my team and I face at work, due to the inspirations born in me from something like UO.

Not to get into a debate. But the original team at UO was amazing with RG.. but after a few years, most of the devs that came and went were just along for a ride. The truely great things about UO were there at launch. Open world housing, NPC vendors, the crafting systems. After that, it was mostly just expanding the map, nothing really innovative was added. I talked to Hanse when he got there and he did most of the crafting changes. Basically everything was so hardcoded for the original game it made it really difficult to do anything unique.

[dextersmith]

I am not completely sure, but on the KS I have been a part of, the people that email you and ask to help you ´promote´ your KS ask for a percentage of the KS money once it succeeds, not a share in the company. My guess it is the reason Xanword waited until the KS failed to really blow off on the devs... because at that point, he had worked for them a year for nothing. But that is just speculation.

Nobody knows the ´transparency´ part of the contracts they are giving out now. But think about it.. he said that you earn more share based on how much work you do.... but this is a guy that does not know anything... how can he determine how much work something is. Like I said, he put up and advertisment to buy a script that took less time to code than his advertisment took to write. Would he give that ´coder´ a bigger part of the company for that script? How can someone who after 8 months couldn´t turn on the server have any idea how hard or easy something is to do? He will give out a bigger share of the company to someone who wrote a few pages of lore as to the guy who did demo island for them? This is a guy who just spent $67,000 for a kickstarter that earned $25,000... I am not sure I would trust his business calculations.

"he said that you earn more share based on how much work you do...." lmao so Brax gets nothing? Are they going to keep producing shares like Germany printed money after WW2?

No, This is a guy who just spent $67,000 for a kickstarter that earned $0.

[lawow74]

At least you could wallpaper your home with the money. You can't even keep warm with his hot air cos it doesn't transfer over the Internet.

[khalltusk]

I am not completely sure, but on the KS I have been a part of, the people that email you and ask to help you ´promote´ your KS ask for a percentage of the KS money once it succeeds, not a share in the company. My guess it is the reason Xanword waited until the KS failed to really blow off on the devs... because at that point, he had worked for them a year for nothing. But that is just speculation.

Nobody knows the ´transparency´ part of the contracts they are giving out now. But think about it.. he said that you earn more share based on how much work you do.... but this is a guy that does not know anything... how can he determine how much work something is. Like I said, he put up and advertisment to buy a script that took less time to code than his advertisment took to write. Would he give that ´coder´ a bigger part of the company for that script? How can someone who after 8 months couldn´t turn on the server have any idea how hard or easy something is to do? He will give out a bigger share of the company to someone who wrote a few pages of lore as to the guy who did demo island for them? This is a guy who just spent $67,000 for a kickstarter that earned $25,000... I am not sure I would trust his business calculations.

- - - Updated - - -



Not to get into a debate. But the original team at UO was amazing with RG.. but after a few years, most of the devs that came and went were just along for a ride. The truely great things about UO were there at launch. Open world housing, NPC vendors, the crafting systems. After that, it was mostly just expanding the map, nothing really innovative was added. I talked to Hanse when he got there and he did most of the crafting changes. Basically everything was so hardcoded for the original game it made it really difficult to do anything unique.

I agree the original game for its time was mind blowing in how open it was. The housing system was a stand out feature. You could customize the interior to how ever you wanted it to be. NPC vendors was another big one IMO.

It is a shame what happened to that game. I really enjoyed doing role play and joined a serious role play community back in the day. Was a lot of fun.

On topic however, I fail to see how Brax can set limits on how much something is worth. He has next to no clue about designing a game let alone coding anything either. How can he attach value to something he knows little to nothing about?

[Kelimbror]

https://www.trialsofascension.com/fo...t-humans.4995/


"true codes" and "hypetrains", cuz yay.

El oh el.

Is it sad that I would rather all of these posts come from devalt accounts than real people? B/c if this is real people...I don't even.

[Scyclone]

I am not completely sure, but on the KS I have been a part of, the people that email you and ask to help you ´promote´ your KS ask for a percentage of the KS money once it succeeds, not a share in the company. My guess it is the reason Xanword waited until the KS failed to really blow off on the devs... because at that point, he had worked for them a year for nothing. But that is just speculation.

Nobody knows the ´transparency´ part of the contracts they are giving out now. But think about it.. he said that you earn more share based on how much work you do.... but this is a guy that does not know anything... how can he determine how much work something is. Like I said, he put up and advertisment to buy a script that took less time to code than his advertisment took to write. Would he give that ´coder´ a bigger part of the company for that script? How can someone who after 8 months couldn´t turn on the server have any idea how hard or easy something is to do? He will give out a bigger share of the company to someone who wrote a few pages of lore as to the guy who did demo island for them? This is a guy who just spent $67,000 for a kickstarter that earned $25,000... I am not sure I would trust his business calculations.

- - - Updated - - -



Not to get into a debate. But the original team at UO was amazing with RG.. but after a few years, most of the devs that came and went were just along for a ride. The truely great things about UO were there at launch. Open world housing, NPC vendors, the crafting systems. After that, it was mostly just expanding the map, nothing really innovative was added. I talked to Hanse when he got there and he did most of the crafting changes. Basically everything was so hardcoded for the original game it made it really difficult to do anything unique.

Oh I agree, tho for the time being and the people I met, it was more than enough to be well worth the experience. The few years were all that was needed. EQ sort of took over from there.

UO went downhill once Trammel came out, but even that aside, the game was still absolutely amazing and I don't see the developers in any less of a light. The original creators were all that was needed at that point

[Kyanion]

El oh el.

Is it sad that I would rather all of these posts come from devalt accounts than real people? B/c if this is real people...I don't even.

You aren't the only one man. It makes me really sad to know that some of those are real people that are so deep in the hole there is no saving them.

[ThePotato]

https://www.trialsofascension.com/fo...t-humans.4995/


"true codes" and "hypetrains", cuz yay.

More shocked that Gassy hasn't liked anything in that thread yet.

[NotADevAlt]

http://www.trialsofascension.com/for...imations.4992/

It gets better...

Are these people 4 real? And Elyssia responds to each and every single one of these things as if they are serious questions.

[Edge-]

Are these people 4 real? And Elyssia responds to each and every single one of these things as if they are serious questions.

wut

She/he has 2 posts. One clearly joking (responding to a joke), the other responding to OP who was upset that folks were joking.

I still don't get the extreme schadenfreude in this thread. It perplexes me.