The Last of Us Part II

[Tech614]

when the numbers are still meaningless

The numbers are far from meaningless.

https://www.opencritic.com/browse/all

Literally look at this list and it's a who's who of games that sell well, move the industry forward and advance their genres. It's not a coincidence when such a large number of people agree a game is great, it usually actually is great. Shocking I know, and I'm not sure why you keep trying to double down on why they don't matter. Matt from the NPD literally said back around GoW launch in 2018 the review scores bumped preorder numbers by an insane amount so keep living in your fantasy world where you think the number doesn't matter... it does.

[Witchblade77]

The numbers are far from meaningless.

https://www.opencritic.com/browse/all

Literally look at this list and it's a who's who of games that sell well, move the industry forward and advance their genres. It's not a coincidence when such a large number of people agree a game is great, it usually actually is great. Shocking I know, and I'm not sure why you keep trying to double down on why they don't matter. Matt from the NPD literally said back around GoW launch in 2018 the review scores bumped preorder numbers by an insane amount so keep living in your fantasy world where you think the number doesn't matter... it does.

Tech. why are you so defensive? did you even READ what I said? when it comes to deciding whether to play the game - the numbers are MEANINGLESS AND ARBITRARY, because they do not tell you anything about the game itself. the do not tell you about experience, likes, dislikes, what reviewer had the most and least fun with - numbers do not tell you the details. deciding whether to play a game solely on its number rating is asking to end up with a bunch of highly acclaimed games that may or may not even be your thing. the numbers are meaningless when it comes to deciding on a personal level whether YOU should or should not be buying the game.

AS A PLAYER deciding whether to buy something - you should be looking at the writeups themselves, NOT the score. its like... looking at a headline and solely on a basis of the headline, judging the contents of the article.

[-aiko-]

when it comes to deciding whether to play the game - the numbers are MEANINGLESS AND ARBITRARY.

I mean...I'm sorry, but I disagree here.

Review scores are not meaningless, but review scores are also not the end-all-be-all. You have to make your own decision based on whatever resources you're willing to look into and review scores can help you get there. I get what you're saying, but most people don't have the time or energy to read through dozens and dozens of reviews to see if they should buy a game or not. Review scores take all of what you mentioned - the reviewers likes, dislikes, experiences, etc - and condenses them into an easy to digest rating.

When you have enough people doing the same thing, and a site like metacritic comes by to average these all out for you, you end up with a score that can help you reinforce your or change position. In my case, I was pretty disinterested in TLOUII because (as I said in my first post on this thread) I felt like TLOU ended well and didn't need a continuation.

Knowing that the game has enough positive qualities for it to reach a very high score has caused me to read some of these reviews and determine that I would probably enjoy it. Maybe not day one, but it seems like there may be enough to this game after all that will make it worth playing. I probably would have kept my original position and not bothered with the game were it not for the very high scores it was getting that sparked me into looking into it more.

Review scores are just a tool to help you make a purchasing decision, but they are an important and powerful tool.

[Rennadrel]

Give me a break. This is the same mainstream review culture that gave Death Stranding a 40/40 when many from one of their leading publications were put into it as cameos and routinely gives high marks to yearly shovelware Gundam games because it's their equivalent to our yearly CoDs. Not dissimilar to Jessica Chobot being put into ME3. To say nothing of how much MGS4 was put on a pedestal despite being a self-indulgent fanservice semen stain.

TLOU2 may very well suck, I am not a fan of what I have seen of leaks, and I'm not so quick to stan it and defend it like some here, but the East isn't some wonderful paragon of integrity about games journalism. They have their own problems.

People are using TLOU2 as a lazy smokescreen for continued expansion of radicalizing in the same way GG was. The entire twist with Abby and everything surrounding it would be very questionable even if she [I]wasn't [/I]masculine or trans (dunno if it's even confirmed she is) but nobody can shut the fuck up about that because it's a convenient way to get angry teenagers on board. I think that's my biggest beef with this entire situation - it's just a way for people to be reactionary assholes rather than just objectively examine that they don't like a narrative direction.

It's worth noting that the part of the game that has been blocked by NDA that the reviewers can't talk about, is the same content that Sony and Naughty Dog spent the better part of two months in DMCA damage control over because part of it was what was leaked. People don't give a shit that Ellie is a lesbian either, but there's this whole cult in games journalism that is so hell bent on identity politics that comes exclusively out of western and European writers and it's insulting to both gamer's and the games themselves. That's the reason why people have stopped trusting the gaming outlets and YouTubers are getting more credibility, not to mention so many of them have proven to be complete dog shit at games, so their ability to be objective over challenging games is questionable at best. The whole "here's why so and so is problematic because I'm *insert ideological silliness*" is what people are sick of. And frankly, if the characters are well written and the story is good, no one cares one iota if they are cis characters or not. The problem is that, and as many independent reviewers have discussed, there's a lot of holes in the story of TLOU2 and that the story lost all of the great nuance that the first game had and became a boring white man bad, revenge power fantasy. And the whole concept of diversity has just been pigeonholed into so many games (and films) these days and lost all of the qualities that make an entertaining product.

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I mean...I'm sorry, but I disagree here.

Review scores are not meaningless, but review scores are also not the end-all-be-all. You have to make your own decision based on whatever resources you're willing to look into and review scores can help you get there. I get what you're saying, but most people don't have the time or energy to read through dozens and dozens of reviews to see if they should buy a game or not. Review scores take all of what you mentioned - the reviewers likes, dislikes, experiences, etc - and condenses them into an easy to digest rating.

When you have enough people doing the same thing, and a site like metacritic comes by to average these all out for you, you end up with a score that can help you reinforce your or change position. In my case, I was pretty disinterested in TLOUII because (as I said in my first post on this thread) I felt like TLOU ended well and didn't need a continuation.

Knowing that the game has enough positive qualities for it to reach a very high score has caused me to read some of these reviews and determine that I would probably enjoy it. Maybe not day one, but it seems like there may be enough to this game after all that will make it worth playing. I probably would have kept my original position and not bothered with the game were it not for the very high scores it was getting that sparked me into looking into it more.

Review scores are just a tool to help you make a purchasing decision, but they are an important and powerful tool.

In my honest opinion, reviews would be better off without a scoring system. Scoring systems create inherent bias and don't tell the whole story of whether you will enjoy a game or not. Some of my favourite games of all time still have flaws, but many reviewers have given them incredibly high scores. I don't truly think there is a perfect game. And there's some games that have been rated very highly that I absolutely disliked (Mass Effect and Gears of War come to mind).

[Witchblade77]

I mean...I'm sorry, but I disagree here.

Review scores are not meaningless, but review scores are also not the end-all-be-all. You have to make your own decision based on whatever resources you're willing to look into and review scores can help you get there. I get what you're saying, but most people don't have the time or energy to read through dozens and dozens of reviews to see if they should buy a game or not. Review scores take all of what you mentioned - the reviewers likes, dislikes, experiences, etc - and condenses them into an easy to digest rating.

When you have enough people doing the same thing, and a site like metacritic comes by to average these all out for you, you end up with a score that can help you reinforce your or change position. In my case, I was pretty disinterested in TLOUII because (as I said in my first post on this thread) I felt like TLOU ended well and didn't need a continuation.

Knowing that the game has enough positive qualities for it to reach a very high score has caused me to read some of these reviews and determine that I would probably enjoy it. Maybe not day one, but it seems like there may be enough to this game after all that will make it worth playing. I probably would have kept my original position and not bothered with the game were it not for the very high scores it was getting that sparked me into looking into it more.

Review scores are just a tool to help you make a purchasing decision, but they are an important and powerful tool.

we can agree to disagree here.

personaly I have never found scores particularly useful, whether its video games or whatever i might be buying on amazon. if I get interested in a game, its not because of its score, its because the game genre appeals to me and initial summary sounds interesting. after that I read up on experiences people had playing this game, maybe watch some reviews with gameplay included and THEN decide if its worth playing for me.

case in point, RDR2. highly acclaimed game. that I will never buy or try. why? because setting doesn't appeal to me, characters do not appeal to me and too many gameplay elements do not appeal to me. meanwhile - Recore has pretty mediocre scores https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/r...nitive-edition. but I love it and played the heck out of it. why? because seeing some of the gameplay and reading reviews, even critical reviews - sold me. as some of the issues people have are positives for me.

your mileage may vary and all that.

[Tech614]

we can agree to disagree here.

personaly I have never found scores particularly useful, whether its video games or whatever i might be buying on amazon. if I get interested in a game, its not because of its score, its because the game genre appeals to me and initial summary sounds interesting. after that I read up on experiences people had playing this game, maybe watch some reviews with gameplay included and THEN decide if its worth playing for me.

case in point, RDR2. highly acclaimed game. that I will never buy or try. why? because setting doesn't appeal to me, characters do not appeal to me and too many gameplay elements do not appeal to me. meanwhile - Recore has pretty mediocre scores https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/r...nitive-edition. but I love it and played the heck out of it. why? because seeing some of the gameplay and reading reviews, even critical reviews - sold me. as some of the issues people have are positives for me.

your mileage may vary and all that.

You can turn the hipster filter on your phone off now, nobody is going to take you serious with claims that you enjoy a shitty comcept game. There is a reason they closed a studio down, sold off to Level 5 and are now just making shitty mobile games.

[Vakir]

It's worth noting that the part of the game that has been blocked by NDA that the reviewers can't talk about, is the same content that Sony and Naughty Dog spent the better part of two months in DMCA damage control over because part of it was what was leaked. People don't give a shit that Ellie is a lesbian either

The "they should be terrified of you" trailer got dislike bombed in its own right back when Naughty Dog had all the good will in the world due to the kiss. This is outright false, although not as heavy in its bad response as now. People still do have an axe to grind, and a lot of the people spamming "IT'S MA'AM" are just along for the ride because it helps radicalize people.

I agree review numbers are terrible, though. I can rarely boil down an experience to something that simple - it really is something designed to cater to the lowest common denominator.

[Witchblade77]

You can turn the hipster filter on your phone off now, nobody is going to take you serious with claims that you enjoy a shitty comcept game. There is a reason they closed a studio down, sold off to Level 5 and are now just making shitty mobile games.

really dude. really?

I'm starting to remember why I had you on ignore for a while.

among other things you don't seem to understand the concept of personal preference. someone liking or not liking a thing is NOT a personal attack on you, a thing you like and thing its awesome or whatever else, you know.

your attitude, btw is more likely to push people into bias against TLOU2 more then leaks or anything else.

[everydaygamer]

I agree review numbers are terrible, though. I can rarely boil down an experience to something that simple - it really is something designed to cater to the lowest common denominator.

Reviews are just meant to help you decide if a game is worth buying, scores essentially serve as TLDR which is fine for people who just need to know what the general consensus is without reading through dozens of reviews. But at the end of the day, you still need to exercise common sense, if you generally hate racing games you'll probably hate any new racing game that comes out regardless of the review scores but that doesn't mean the reviews are wrong.

[desertlizard]

hype time oh yeah, wish i was not married with soooo much time and no kids,,, yea sad story my life and i guess same old for many of us... haha, damn the time had to come, wish the pandemic its over and kids back to school... yea i guess i ll ve to wait for this one and many many more titles retained on the shelves... the game is was and its going to be an instant classic every gamer should know about that. i know i 'll be jumping on trampolins screaming at cats of joy and every other shit like that when i finally get to play it, just not now for the moment but hell, you better be ready for it, and if your not well thats a shame son...

[susanalisa247]

This is gonna be a long and engaging game and multiple retry :-)

[Darththeo]

If the leaks are true, it is not a story I am interested in how they have chosen to tell it.

It isn't because any story event is offensive about what it is, but how they choose to tell it.

It's generic attempted shock factor and insulting to fans of the first ... if it is true.

[RobertMugabe]

If the leaks are true, it is not a story I am interested in how they have chosen to tell it.

It isn't because any story event is offensive about what it is, but how they choose to tell it.

It's generic attempted shock factor and insulting to fans of the first ... if it is true.

How much of the "leaked" stuff is actually leaked tho? AFAIK all of the really bad stuff is fake (Don't consider Joel's death bad or unexpected tho), such as how half of the game is played from the POV of that trans person and that Joel/Ellie are actually the bad ones.

As for how the story is being told... I mean tbh we don't know shit, like we know at best how 3(?) cutscenes look like without any context whatsoever. It might appear bad in isolation, but it could also be really good if you look at the whole thing. It's not like the first part had a fuckton of shocking stuff. If you go back and look at some cutscenes without any context then they look bad too.

Personally I won't buy or play the game (and instead watch a lets play), since I don't own a PS4... however all the actual leaks (and not the unconfirmed and most likely fake stuff from 4chan) give us so little to really tell how good or bad the story is. Again though, I don't see why Joel being brutally murdered by a trans person automatically has to mean the story is garbage. Joel being killed off was what most people expected to happen anyways and I don't know why some people are tilted that his murdered is a crazy TRANS person.

[Rennadrel]

The "they should be terrified of you" trailer got dislike bombed in its own right back when Naughty Dog had all the good will in the world due to the kiss. This is outright false, although not as heavy in its bad response as now. People still do have an axe to grind, and a lot of the people spamming "IT'S MA'AM" are just along for the ride because it helps radicalize people.

I agree review numbers are terrible, though. I can rarely boil down an experience to something that simple - it really is something designed to cater to the lowest common denominator.

Considering that trailer lacked context, it's pretty easy to understand why people got outraged. Should they have been open minded about it? Definitely. Some people like to be edgy and troll, but I think a lot of people are just annoyed that Sony/ND have tried to continually pull the wool over their eyes with this game. From not being forthcoming about the story premises to censoring people's rights to expression and speech while violating the DMCA laws.

[Darththeo]

How much of the "leaked" stuff is actually leaked tho? AFAIK all of the really bad stuff is fake (Don't consider Joel's death bad or unexpected tho), such as how half of the game is played from the POV of that trans person and that Joel/Ellie are actually the bad ones.

Hence my use of the word "if."

Joel's death isn't itself bad, but how they chose to go about it in the leak. Abby being the villain in the first half of the game and then being switched to the playable character to hunt down Ellie in the second half of the game. That's what I find to be generic shock value the whole SIKE, you pay as Abby the person who just killed a character you loved. And I find it insulting to tell the story in that way.

[RobertMugabe]

Hence my use of the word "if."

Joel's death isn't itself bad, but how they chose to go about it in the leak. Abby being the villain in the first half of the game and then being switched to the playable character to hunt down Ellie in the second half of the game. That's what I find to be generic shock value the whole SIKE, you pay as Abby the person who just killed a character you loved. And I find it insulting to tell the story in that way.

AFAIK this whole playing Abby in the 2nd half of the game isn't actually part of the original leak and is thus fake. If it is true however, then I agree

[Darththeo]

AFAIK this whole playing Abby in the 2nd half of the game isn't actually part of the original leak and is thus fake. If it is true however, then I agree

That's why I am waiting for after release to even see if I will purchase it. I want to see how much was true, I don't care if it gets spoiled for me because the first game was spoiled for me and I still like it.

[Skorpionss]

ME:A had memeable glitches and poor animation right at the start in the trial period they allowed people access prior to launch. That open first impression greatly hurt the game.

Gearbox has never done anything good except Borderlands.

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The game tries to pull of edgy commentary how violence is bad, so ofc every close quarters kill is gonna be graphic.

They had those in the freaking game trailers before release, where everything should be tweaked to look perfect. Like Sara Ryder looking like a potato and holding the gun backwards.

[Vakir]

Considering that trailer lacked context, it's pretty easy to understand why people got outraged.

The hell are you talking about? No context is required for that. Two women kissed. The context is itself. People were downvote bombing it because they hated a lesbian main character. They immediately started crying SJW because they didn't want it, because it's impossible for something to be diverse on its own merits (and because they clearly didn't play Left Behind).

The DMCA stuff is semi-valid, lots of people don't understand fair use - but tons are absolutely not just trolling or being edgy with the source of their outrage. It's their actual attitude and social beliefs and they're using other shit as an excuse to radicalize.

Same thing with suddenly giving a shit about Naughty Dog's crunch and labor conditions, but you'll be damn sure the same people spamming IT'S MA'AAAAM memes didn't give a shit when Rockstar did it. "It's actually about ethics in games journalism games development."

[RuneDK]

really dude. really?

I'm starting to remember why I had you on ignore for a while.

among other things you don't seem to understand the concept of personal preference. someone liking or not liking a thing is NOT a personal attack on you, a thing you like and thing its awesome or whatever else, you know.

your attitude, btw is more likely to push people into bias against TLOU2 more then leaks or anything else.

he's the most pointless person to get into a debate/argument over...he's always right. He's part of why I stopped even engaging in this forum...not a large part...but a part nonetheless.

OT, this part isn't in response to Witchblade. I started replaying the first so it's fresh in my mind for part 2...my opinion still stands...its a good game...but I still think it's largely over-rated. Now, keep in mind..I'm saying over-rated...not bad...they are not the same thing. The game to me is not the masterpiece people say it is. Can't wait for tech to tell me im wrong on my opinion though...Hopefully part 2 lives up to the hype that people are putting on it.