As Horde, i have no motivation to hate the alliance

[Feanoro]

that he couldn't have Sylvanas or the horde getting it.

Gosh, why wouldn't he want a proven psychopathic murderer with a history of using WMDs and her unquestioning sycophants to get their hands on something else they could turn into a weapon? Doesn't he understand she only wants to decorate Org with flowers, potpourri, and fresh skulls?

[Steampunkette]

Those are some thick tinted glasses you're wearing rofl.

1. Goblins are attacking the very world we live on, picking at and exploiting a potentially fatal wound.
2. Sylvanas's first reaction to Azerite is not "Oh no the world is dying let's save it!"
3. Sylvanas's first reaction is "Let's make weapons and kill everyone in Stormwind!"
4. The Alliance only finds out about Azerite when goblins start massing in Silithus. Given Goblin's reputation for creating dangerous weapons, and the obvious power in the new substance, OF COURSE they send scouts to find out more. Any ruler who failed to take this basic step would be negligent and irresponsible.
5. Anduin's first reaction to Azerite is "I could heal everyone!"
6. Alliance players are told to slow down the mining and do whatever is necessary to get samples.
7. Horde players are told to speed up mining and kill any Alliance who come snooping around.
8. You can rationalize till you're blue in the face, but the Alliance is hoping to save the world while Horde is hoping to conquer it. Again.

1) Sylvanas doesn't find out Azerite is the "Blood of Azeroth" until Chapter 12. She sends people down in chapter 3 and the Goblins have been there since the Prologue.
2) See 1.
3) Sylvanas's first reaction is "I am the Goddess of Destruction and Creation!" It's not until Chapter 20 that she talks to Gallywix about making Weapons out of Azerite. Before that point she might've wanted to grind it and snort it as Cocaine to elevate herself to Godhood for all we know. Anduin agrees to do weapons in Chapter 4.
4) Sending people to find out information? Sure. Diplomats. Emisarries. Spies? You're sending a combatant into a non-combat situation and escalating it. Goblins are also known for grabbing literally anything that might be valuable in literally any application and selling it at inflated prices to make a profit.
5) Sure. 'Cause Azerite does crazy ass things to your brain. Meanwhile Rogers, Falstad, and Muradin are all "We could destroy the Horde!" so... y'know... Not really something to discuss all things considered.
6) Which is -MURDER- a bunch of goblin laborers. Couch it in what terms you like, it's still murder.
7) Yes. Because the Alliance PC has been murdering goblins for 2 chapters before the Hordie gets there.
8) Nope. The Alliance isn't interested in saving the world until -after- they've murdered a bunch of goblins to steal Azerite for themselves. In fact... they build Azerite Weapons pretty much immediately.



You need to take off your blinders, Kolee.

[mickybrighteyes]

Gosh, why wouldn't he want a proven psychopathic murderer with a history of using WMDs and her unquestioning sycophants to get their hands on something else they could turn into a weapon? Doesn't he understand she only wants to decorate Org with flowers, potpourri, and fresh skulls?

likewise why is it so far fetched to assume a nation witha penchant for meddling in the affairs of other nations... who's attempted to assassinate or capture multiple warchiefs and nearly wiped out multiple factions' nations... would leave you be.

At this point it's not psychopathy, it's looking out for ones' interests.

edit:

i really don't want to go into every past detail... it's in this thread and numerous others on this site. Stormheim isn't the first time a warchief has been targeted and the goblins aren't the only horde race nearly wiped out by alliance actions.... hell that was sort of the way most races wound up in the horde "so humans tried killing you too? good enough you're in", - Thall

[karumayu]

um.. no... picking a fight with someone because you believe something isn't self defense. that's like saying Daelin was acting in self defense when he took a trip to Kalimdor and started killing Trolls and trying to kill orcs.

Weirdly enough, Sylvanas is operating with same justification as Daelin. Attack the other faction pre-emptively based on assumption that they might attack them in the future.

[mickybrighteyes]

Weirdly enough, Sylvanas is operating with same justification as Daelin. Attack the other faction pre-emptively based on assumption that they might attack them in the future.

The only real difference is there's no blood haze or mind control effect in play that we're suddenly made aware of. And the target in the initial stages seems to have started to act against the horde... this part is confusing me. The fleet sailing south from Darnassus, that diverts back north after realizing the horde are marching north... what was it intended to be doing heading towards silithus?

[Steampunkette]

Most sane people would say "Hey that's a huge sword, and it was stabbed in there by the super villain who's been trying to kill us for generations, so maybe we should be careful and avoid messing with it until the shamans and druids and priests have all looked it over."

99% of people on Azeroth don't know it's a "Titan Soul". Sane or otherwise. So why would they give a shit about Priests being down there? Druids are all about plants and Animals and heading to deserts to bring them back to life, so -they'd- have no power over anything going on.

Shamans is a Maybe? If the local Earth Elementals are pissed about the sword they could get riled up, sure.

But for most people on Azeroth it's just a big scary thing that happened. Hell, even Anduin doesn't think about "Healing the World" until Magni fucking -tells- him to do it in Chapter 8.

Fucking ANDUIN'S thoughts on the sword are as follows:

The final act of a corrupted being, the very last and most devastating blow struck in the war against the Legion, had all but obliterated much of Silithus. The only thing that had mitigated the scope of the disaster had been that mercifully, in his random, angry blow, Sargeras had not thrust the sword into a more populated part of the world than the nearly empty desert land. Had he struck here, in the Eastern Kingdoms, a continent away from Silithus…

Anduin could not permit himself to go down that path. He would be grateful for what little he could be.

So instead of making up a shitload of headcanon about how the Alliance wants to heal the world while the Horde wants to kill it, read the damn material.

[Deleted]

Well speaking from a PvP perspective, I have no respect for people who play the most boring race just to have the anti-stun racial. Also humans and night elves come across as self-righteous to me. Void elves I hate because they are a shameless blood elf rip off. Dwarves and gnomes are cute and fun, I have no hate for them, worgen are too wannabe edgy and I love killing them, dranei are ok, lightforged are boring.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

99% of people on Azeroth don't know it's a "Titan Soul". Sane or otherwise. So why would they give a shit about Priests being down there? Druids are all about plants and Animals and heading to deserts to bring them back to life, so -they'd- have no power over anything going on.

Shamans is a Maybe? If the local Earth Elementals are pissed about the sword they could get riled up, sure.

But for most people on Azeroth it's just a big scary thing that happened. Hell, even Anduin doesn't think about "Healing the World" until Magni fucking -tells- him to do it in Chapter 8.

Fucking ANDUIN'S thoughts on the sword are as follows:



So instead of making up a shitload of headcanon about how the Alliance wants to heal the world while the Horde wants to kill it, read the damn material.

Oh I read. Difference is I read the story Blizz is trying to tell, instead of insisting on some "alternate facts" that suit my personal preferences.

Anduin's first reaction to touching Azerite:

The heaviness of grief vanished as if it were physical armor that had been seized and yanked off. Weariness fled, replaced by surging, almost crackling energy and insight. Strategies raced through his head, each one of them sound and successful, each one of them engendering a shift in comprehension and ensuring a lasting peace that benefited every being on Azeroth.

Sylvanas's first reaction to touching Azerite:

She was no longer a dark lady or even a queen. She was a goddess of destruction and creation, and she was stunned that she had never understood how deeply the two were intertwined. Armies, cities, entire cultures - she could raise them. And fell them. Stormwind would be among the first, yielding its people to swell the numbers of her own. She could deal death on a scale that...

[Steampunkette]

Oh I read. Difference is I read the story Blizz is trying to tell, instead of insisting on some "alternate facts" that suit my personal preferences.

Anduin's first reaction to touching Azerite:

The heaviness of grief vanished as if it were physical armor that had been seized and yanked off. Weariness fled, replaced by surging, almost crackling energy and insight. Strategies raced through his head, each one of them sound and successful, each one of them engendering a shift in comprehension and ensuring a lasting peace that benefited every being on Azeroth.

Sylvanas's first reaction to touching Azerite:

She was no longer a dark lady or even a queen. She was a goddess of destruction and creation, and she was stunned that she had never understood how deeply the two were intertwined. Armies, cities, entire cultures - she could raise them. And fell them. Stormwind would be among the first, yielding its people to swell the numbers of her own. She could deal death on a scale that...

Which means... what exactly? It certainly doesn't support your "I'm gonna heal the world!" Alliance Argument, that's for damned sure.

Yeah. Anduin. Whose personality has always been about peace to the point of it basically being an obsession immediately thinks of peace. Sylvanas whose whole thing is about her own power wants to "Raise Armies, Cities, Entire Cultures" or destroy them. Not "Raze". Raise. Half Creation, Half Destruction, and the creation of undead in service to her.

It's a thing. Everyone focuses on the destruction part, but... yeah. She's Ambivalent. Destruction and Creation.

Anywho. The story Blizz is trying to tell is "Morally Gray". You're saying they're writing a story that's strictly black and white.

Again. Take off your blinders.

[Zulkhan]

So you keep your position that the Horde has the right to act against those spies on neutral/contested ground but the Alliance has no right to act against the miners. Because this is where our little dispute started. I still do not understand why you would say it is totally fine and right if the Horde started arresting/killing Alliance spies on neutral ground, but the Alliance arresting/killing Horde miners on neutral ground is "starting the agression".

Because is not fucking neutral ground, it's an Horde outpost. That piece of land claimed by the Horde is Horde territory and if you sneak in said territory without permission you're nothing but a trepasser warranting reprisal. It's not rocket-science.

Why in the fuck would the Horde send civilian miners to SILITHUS right next to SARGERAS' SWORD, it just doesn't make any sense, I know Sylvanas is pretty dense but even she isn't that dumb

What the fuck are you even saying? Non-combatants are civilians and no matter how dangerous the place can be, all outposts need civilian workers who do the handiwork. Like, you know, building the fucking outpost in the first place and gathering whatever resource is needed.

What a horrible war crime! The Alliance are the aggressors!

But you don't need to commit war crimes to be the aggressor. You only need to be, well, aggressive.

[Kwento]

I'm saying it's pretty clear the miners are not civilians.

Wow... Who are civilians, in your opinion?

[Steampunkette]

Also worth noting: Sylvanas didn't send Civilians to Silithus.

Gallywix did.

Chief Bennet must not have read Before the Storm.

[Kwento]

I did, unless I missed it, nowhere is it stated they are civilians. And the fact they do fight back against the Alliance and attack the explorer's league makes it quite clear they are not civilians. Quote me next time.

If someone tries to shank you with a knife, you won’t defend yourself? Or if someone, clearly from a group of people that your faction is at war with, goes around your camp or area of operations, you won’t try to do something about it?
It’s never said that miners attacked explorers league. Just goblins.

[Steampunkette]

I did, unless I missed it, nowhere is it stated they are civilians. And the fact they do fight back against the Alliance and attack the explorer's league makes it quite clear they are not civilians. Quote me next time.

Kezzig Klackwhistle, the primary goblin we see in Silithus, used to work in a Gnomish Mining Shop in Winterspring and became a Prospector/Miner in Silithus.

I get that you Alliance Fanboys -really- want to be in the right, here, but you killed a bunch of civilians. Again.

Gallywix does send some people after Lunny and the Explorer's League, but that's not 'til Chapter 6. Long after the Alliance has started their murdering spree at the end of Chapter 1.

[jimboa24]

Pretty much for the entire history of Warcraft, it's always been the same thing:

1) the Horde provokes, attacks, or does something,
and 2) the Alliance reacts.

The Alliance pretty much never shoots first - you could even argue that the Alliance is a strictly defensive organization of races, bound together because they're constantly under threat by the Horde.

[mickybrighteyes]

Pretty much for the entire history of Warcraft, it's always been the same thing:

1) the Horde provokes, attacks, or does something,
and 2) the Alliance reacts.

The Alliance pretty much never shoots first - you could even argue that the Alliance is a strictly defensive organization of races, bound together because they're constantly under threat by the Horde.

honestly up till Cataclysm it seemed the Alliance was always the one putting on the pressure. Darkspear trolls almost wiped out. Orcs hunted across the sea. Undead well.. obvious issues there.... Tauren were the only original horde race that never had a real run in with the Alliance. Hell, even adding in the Blood elves and Goblins they remain the only horde exclusive race that HASN'T had to directly deal with Alliance attacks (just dwarves desecrating burial grounds and a brief attack on one town). The Horde only really ramped up ANY offensives was under Garrosh.

[Kwento]

Yeah and why would those goblins be there? Do you see how far you have to reach to make the Alliance look like villains in this situation? The miners were not civilians, and they were seizing materials that could spell the end of the Alliance - what are they supposed to do? Just let them take as much as they like?

No, you contact their leaders and try to resolve the situation with words. Then, if you fail, you try again. Then, when you did everything possible to do this without bloodshed, you neutralize armed forces and drive civilian workers out of the territory.
I don’t reach very far, I just look beyond “Horde is evil, it’s alright to kill them”.

[Hitei]

1. He doesn't die, so the Alliance didn't kill him
2. Just because his affiliations were different before, doesn't mean he wasn't a combatant now, you have literally no proof that the goblin the Alliance attacked were innocent civilians.
3. I'm not an Alliance fanboy, yet because I think you're wrong it must be because of my bias right? For someone who takes lore so seriously you seem quite quick to ignore it when it's convenient for you

- - - Updated - - -

Finally, do you honestly think Anduin would sanction the killing of civilians? Come on.

Give it up, you are arguing with a Sylvanas fanboy whose delusion goes well beyond any logic. That "Sylvanas raises the people she murders so she's a creator and not evil!" was used as an argument should tell you about how well any reasoning is going to go here.

It's very obvious the Goblins struck first in Silithus, because the Alliance had zero azerite samples beyond the single pebble sent to Stormwind, the Explorer's league deliberately stays away from the Goblins to avoid conflict, and the entire reason the Alliance players are brought in is because the SI:7 in the region are just scouts, not combatants who can forcibly take samples. There is no fucking murder spree, and no goblins are harmed, which is exactly why, when the Horde player shows up they're told the Alliance is "skulking around" not "murdering our miners!!"

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Because is not fucking neutral ground, it's an Horde outpost. That piece of land claimed by the Horde is Horde territory and if you sneak in said territory without permission you're nothing but a trepasser warranting reprisal. It's not rocket-science.

None of us went into the Horde camp to fight anyone. We confronted goblins who were mining a (potentially fatal) wound in the world we all have to live on - that wound cannot be claimed by one faction or the other because it affects all of us. And all of us should be stepping lightly around it until we figure out how to heal it. If ANY Horde want to be seen as responsible citizens of Azeroth, they should be stopping what the Goblins are doing so the Alliance doesn't have to.

[Friendlyimmolation]

None of us went into the Horde camp to fight anyone. We confronted goblins who were mining a (potentially fatal) wound in the world we all have to live on - that wound cannot be claimed by one faction or the other because it affects all of us. And all of us should be stepping lightly around it until we figure out how to heal it. If ANY Horde want to be seen as responsible citizens of Azeroth, they should be stopping what the Goblins are doing so the Alliance doesn't have to.

The Self righteousness of this post just makes it all the funnier when you're putting Alliance down who insist they're always in the right.