On the topic of Sira and Tyrande.

[VladlTutushkin]

Lately i saw the post on Story Forums discussing “Shadows Rising” and how we witness Sira being spared by Tyrande while Maieve and Shandris both advise her to do that. So... What is the point of this farce, again? I vaguely (sarcasm) recall something about Night Warrior being so potent power of revenge and bloodlust that it literally BLOWS YOU UP. And yet... First she spares Belmont and his flunkie, whatever his name was, not killing them and just immobilising them. They obviously escape. Then she fails to kill Natty-Danuser Boi or stop him from raising night elfs into totes 100% willing Super Loyalty. Then she just... disappears into obscurity. Then she comes back to make angry faces at Thrall and... let him go with “I will not speak to you anymore if you dont bring Sylvans head!”. As if he cares about talking to her again. Then there is the perfect moment! We literally got Sira chained and bound, sneering, insulting her, spitting and being so edgy you can cut yourself on that angsty edge. A well known traitor who professed of hating all night elven and despising everything Tyrande stands for... And she spares her. Goes away and leaves her in chains. Obviously she will escape later, that much is clear.
So... What was the point of all that “impossible power that makes you permanently enraged and kills you” if she keeps sparing every horde member she comes across, achieves nothing BUT STILL blatantly “presented” by the book as “insane madwoman who totally lost her way and oh ah might be too far gone to save her from vengeful madness!”. I am confused.

[Xilurm]

Shit writing. I'm not sure what other answer there is. I literally did the Darkshore quests again today with another char and again I was reminded how stupid it is to join the literal faction that murdered you and your home.

"Wow you didn't help me and our Goddess didn't help us so I'm gonna join the monsters that murdered our families and burned them alive!"

[Aucald]

Shadows Rising strongly implies that Sira was warped by her transformation into undeath. Essentially she's being mind-controlled by Sylvanas, albeit with unnatural and psychotic rage as opposed to gross brainwashing or the like. Pretty much all the Night Elves raised at Darkshore have the same thing going on, and only Delaryn Summermoon and a handful of others have been able to somehow work past it.

[Ardenaso]

-snip-

slight correction, everyone else in Ashwood Depot died except Belmont; but yes I wish Nathanos did die there and Signe sacrifices herself to revive him since she's now irrelevant anyway as a last Val'kyr given that Sylvanas got a new fresh army of Mawsworn Kyrians

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Shadows Rising strongly implies that Sira was warped by her transformation into undeath. Essentially she's being mind-controlled by Sylvanas, albeit with unnatural and psychotic rage as opposed to gross brainwashing or the like. Pretty much all the Night Elves raised at Darkshore have the same thing going on, and only Delaryn Summermoon and a handful of others have been able to somehow work past it.

sounds like everyone in Ambermill

[ONCHEhap]

Honestly the entire Darkshore stuff from start to finish was a mess.

You can argue about the entire BfA story all you want,however Darkshore was just straight up dogshit writing the whole time

[Xilurm]

Shadows Rising strongly implies that Sira was warped by her transformation into undeath. Essentially she's being mind-controlled by Sylvanas, albeit with unnatural and psychotic rage as opposed to gross brainwashing or the like. Pretty much all the Night Elves raised at Darkshore have the same thing going on, and only Delaryn Summermoon and a handful of others have been able to somehow work past it.

That needs to be confirmed. If they have anyone sensible in the lore team they need to confirm that because otherwise it's so stupid.

[Feanoro]

Lately i saw the post on Story Forums discussing “Edge of Night” and how we witness Sira being spared by Tyrande while Maieve and Shandris both advise her to do that. So... What is the point of this farce, again? I vaguely (sarcasm) recall something about Night Warrior being so potent power of revenge and bloodlust that it literally BLOWS YOU UP. And yet... First she spares Belmont and his flunkie, whatever his name was, not killing them and just immobilising them. They obviously escape. Then she fails to kill Natty-Danuser Boi or stop him from raising night elfs into totes 100% willing Super Loyalty. Then she just... disappears into obscurity. Then she comes back to make angry faces at Thrall and... let him go with “I will not speak to you anymore if you dont bring Sylvans head!”. As if he cares about talking to her again. Then there is the perfect moment! We literally got Sira chained and bound, sneering, insulting her, spitting and being so edgy you can cut yourself on that angsty edge. A well known traitor who professed of hating all night elven and despising everything Tyrande stands for... And she spares her. Goes away and leaves her in chains. Obviously she will escape later, that much is clear.
So... What was the point of all that “impossible power that makes you permanently enraged and kills you” if she keeps sparing every horde member she comes across, achieves nothing BUT STILL blatantly “presented” by the book as “insane madwoman who totally lost her way and oh ah might be too far gone to save her from vengeful madness!”. I am confused.

You didn't actually expect any repercussions for the Horde did you? They're calling her a lunatic just like they did Jana post Theramore, Varian before he pussied out, and every other Alliance character who commits the one unforgivable sin in Warcraft: demanding the Horde pay for their crimes and advocating fighting back.

Edit:
In before the Lich Queen's PR department comes into this thread shrieking "It's not mind control!"

[Aresk]

Lately i saw the post on Story Forums discussing “Edge of Night” and how we witness Sira being spared by Tyrande while Maieve and Shandris both advise her to do that.

What does "Edge of Night" have to do with Sira? I feel like I'm missing something here.

[Thage]

Extrapolating from Creative Development answers on similar situations (the risen farmers in Western Plaguelands immediately turning on and killing their friends and loved ones without questioning the Val'kyr's command), my guess is that due to the circumstances they died under, the night elves risen at Darkshore were filled with rage and despair, and the Val'kyr took advantage of that and leaned in on it hard in order to keep them easy to manipulate until, like Sira, they'd become true believers.

[Ardenaso]

What does "Edge of Night" have to do with Sira? I feel like I'm missing something here.

I think he meant Shadows Rising

[formerShandalay]

Extrapolating from Creative Development answers on similar situations (the risen farmers in Western Plaguelands immediately turning on and killing their friends and loved ones without questioning the Val'kyr's command), my guess is that due to the circumstances they died under, the night elves risen at Darkshore were filled with rage and despair, and the Val'kyr took advantage of that and leaned in on it hard in order to keep them easy to manipulate until, like Sira, they'd become true believers.

According to Shadows Rising, Sira isn't even a true believer at all. All she needs and wants is to kill to stay at least somewhat in control of her rage. She is quite literally insane once she is prevented from killing. It kind of sounds like the affliction that hit the Death Knights, the need to kill or be sent into an uncontrollable killing spree. Or even the thing that hit Sylvanas with undeath, which has been cited a lot, that all her emotions were dulled, only her rage seemed to have become overwhelming and almost uncontrollable (just not as bad as in Sira and without the absolute need to kill like the Death Knights).
With a Shadowlands point of view it seems to me that this is something coming from the Jailer and/or the Maw.

[Mehrunes]

In before the Lich Queen's PR department comes into this thread shrieking "It's not mind control!"

Translating from Alliance: CDevs. Apparently. They must be in on the HORDE BIAS conspiracy.

[Soon-TM]

Shit writing. I'm not sure what other answer there is. I literally did the Darkshore quests again today with another char and again I was reminded how stupid it is to join the literal faction that murdered you and your home.

"Wow you didn't help me and our Goddess didn't help us so I'm gonna join the monsters that murdered our families and burned them alive!"

I mean, it would have been more elegant, and moreover simpler, to just depict the newly raised NEs as mind controlled minions. Especially given how Sylvie is effectively a Lich Queen now... but no, Danuser wanted to be Nuanced™, so they went with that completely nonsensical BS.

[VladlTutushkin]

What does "Edge of Night" have to do with Sira? I feel like I'm missing something here.

Correction! It was Shadows Rising.

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Extrapolating from Creative Development answers on similar situations (the risen farmers in Western Plaguelands immediately turning on and killing their friends and loved ones without questioning the Val'kyr's command), my guess is that due to the circumstances they died under, the night elves risen at Darkshore were filled with rage and despair, and the Val'kyr took advantage of that and leaned in on it hard in order to keep them easy to manipulate until, like Sira, they'd become true believers.

Yeah sure whatever. As i said - “totally loyal not at all brainwashed just coerced” whatever. But why keep her alive?! Just end her “suffering” and be done with it.

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Translating from Alliance: CDevs. Apparently. They must be in on the HORDE BIAS conspiracy.

At this point you just seem like a pest fixated on harping on this “lul funny there is no bias”. When devs literally said in interview that writing Alliance is harder for them because they cant connect to it.

Infracted.

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I mean, it would have been more elegant, and moreover simpler, to just depict the newly raised NEs as mind controlled minions. Especially given how Sylvie is effectively a Lich Queen now... but no, Danuser wanted to be Nuanced™, so they went with that completely nonsensical BS.

Plus (at least thats what i take from the ghouls) they still raise some nelfs as mindless undead there since we fight blighted ghouls (those with sacks on heads) and only source of defiled and blighted corpses at Darkshore would be night elfs.

[Feanoro]

But why keep her alive?! Just end her “suffering” and be done with it.

The same reason we don't end the playable Scourge's suffering. Because reasons.

At this point you just seem like a pest fixated on harping on this “lul funny there is no bias”. When devs literally said in interview that writing Alliance is harder for them because they cant connect to it.

He's just trying to fulfill the old saw about a lie repeated enough. Also, don't you know Blizzard speaks with the voice of God only if it supports Hordie propaganda?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Sira has more or less gone feral she has no positive emotions and in a constant state of torment which only lets up when she’s inflicting pain and killing others.

What’s her face and mieve convince tyranda that she can still be brought back from said feral state and that it’s not her fault as she never asked to be changed into such a thing. Tyranda barley agrees as she’s on the edge of her own feral state due to the night warrior powers.

Every thing About the night warriors other then sira though is a rather stupid let down.

[VladlTutushkin]

Sira has more or less gone feral she has no positive emotions and in a constant state of torment which only lets up when she’s inflicting pain and killing others.

What’s her face and mieve convince tyranda that she can still be brought back from said feral state and that it’s not her fault as she never asked to be changed into such a thing. Tyranda barley agrees as she’s on the edge of her own feral state due to the night warrior powers.

Every thing About the night warriors other then sira though is a rather stupid let down.

And i argue that a traitor, a “willing” undead and stain on a night elven race as a whole should have being just quickly put down because its obvious that nothing can ever “bring her back” to being normal again. If she loves death and angst so much let her die and meet her new Mommy and her Sugar Daddy Jailer. I bet her soul being mutilated for eternity will satisfy any edgy cravings she had.

[Broken Fox]

She's a crazy zombie now and feels betrayed. Throw in some witchy Sylvanas mindfuckery and it all works out.

[Mehrunes]

At this point you just seem like a pest fixated on harping on this “lul funny there is no bias”. When devs literally said in interview that writing Alliance is harder for them because they cant connect to it.

Could have something to do with the fact that it being harder for them to write the Alliance doesn't constitute bias.

He's just trying to fulfill the old saw about a lie repeated enough.

But I'm not the one peddling a conspiracy theory of Blizzard devs being out to get me. So if anyone was trying to make a lie into reality by repeating it ad nauseum here it'd be you lot.

Also, don't you know Blizzard speaks with the voice of God only if it supports Hordie propaganda?

Ah, arguing against your own made up BS and pretending it constitutes some kind of a gotcha? One day that will totally constitute an actual argument, I'm sure /s Also, voice of god refers to author's authoritative statements about the lore. And comments about the writing comments are not lore. Plus the statement that something is harder to write does not constitute bias against that aspect of the story. For anyone that uses words properly instead of deliberately twisting them to fuel an inane conspiracy theory, at least.

[Super Dickmann]

They want to tell but not show, because showing would have them commit to something they can't do. We're told endlessly about how Tyrande is a powerhouse who can't control her rage and is ruining everything, being a mad dog who can't let go of her hatred of the Horde, yet when actually given a chance to kill anyone who isn't an active enemy combatant trying to kill her at that moment, she's never done it. When Tyrande's given a chance to kill Sira, despite undeath being an abomination in her eyes and previously, without the Night Warrior power up, being willing to kill scores of Wardens to let Illidan go, she now hesitates to kill someone who talks about her only joy in life is slaughtering others.