Punk rockers/anarchists and Libertarians, what is the difference?

[Machismo]

A lot of libertarians are big fans of rock music. I visited liberty festivals and yeah, you can tell we are very much into this. Dunno much about punk though.

Libertarian here. No. we are not "far right", we hold the "live and let live" mentality.
Don't like marijuana? Don't use it, like it? Fine, as long as you are 18 or older.
Don't like video games? Don't use it, like it? Fine, as long as the games are age appropriate (if you are 18 or older idc what games you play).
Don't like the death penalty? Don't use it, like it? Fine, as long as you keep it IN YOUR STATE ONLY and don't try to impose it on other jurisdictions.
Don't like the death penalty abolitionist movement? then keep the death penalty, like it? Fine, as long as you keep it IN YOUR STATE ONLY and don't try to impose it on other jurisdictions.

When I was a minor, I used to like liberals a lot more than I do now, but then I realize they were very controlling, like trying to ban the death penalty on the federal level, telling states how their abortion laws should be, and not to mention the huge issue of cancel culture and guilt by association. I think modern progressives could learn a lot by at least somewhat merging their ideology with libertarianism. I think most progressives are decent people, but their ideology as of now is pretty extreme and controlling.

We support freedom of speech, I feel extremely strongly that people should be able to say anything they want, so long as they are not part of a criminal conspiracy, illegally violating trade secrets or the use of csem/cp, that state should not be involved. I despise racists, but I strongly support their freedom of speech to preach hate, and to even advocate for genocide as long as they don't attempt it. I believe that we really should question laws which criminalize so called "death threats" and really question whether they violate the first amendment. It's one thing if someone is part of a conspiracy to commit murder, an entirely different thing when they are simply trying to intimidate or put the other person in fear. You have the right to be safe, you don't have the right to feel safe. I care about safety, not so much about feelings.

As libertarians, we believe that the free market is the best way to run society. Obviously there are limits, for example, I think there is credible evidence universal healthcare on the catastrophic level is both affordable and a benefit, but this does not mean you get to raise taxes through the roof and red tape all our industries. Federal regulations in particular are a huge interference in the economic development in various states. Even my state, Texas literally set up our own electric grid to get around this over regulation crap.

Umm, you're still not a libertarian...

"Regulate major social media platforms like utility."

https://www.mmo-champion.com/members...8-Sole-Warrior

This isn't even your account:

"Biography: A friend in our guild gave me this MMO-Champion account earlier this month because I wasn't able to create an account for some weird reason. I will set up my own account later when I get the issues resolved. Anyways, I'm Alen Avesta and I live in Huston TX. I will be moving to Chicago when this fucking pandemic is over. Can't wait...

I'm libertarian with a slight tilt towards conservativism. I believe freedom of speech is absolutely important.

Political views:

Neutral on Death penalty, let States decide.
Extremely pro freedom of speech. I will never compromise on this.
Regulate major social media platforms like utility.
Anti Communist
Anti Conspiritard like QAnon, but they still have the freedom of speech to express their idiotic views.
Pro State's rights.
Anti regulations.
Pro SpaceX
Anti Political correctness
Anti SJW
fuck your feelings

Other things about me:

20 years old
5 ft 10 inches tall
Going to become an Electrical engineer

I might give back this account to her later... if she wants it back"

[Sole-Warrior]

Just to make the point; supporting authoritarian measures like supporting state executionary powers flies pretty directly against supposed libertarian values, like political freedom, individual rights, limited government, and non-aggression/peace.

Imagine thinking that opposing the death penalty is somehow more authoritarian than supporting it.

Like, this makes no sense on any level.

I OPPOSE the death penalty, but I DON'T WANT the federal government to force states to end the death penalty. It's a state's rights issue, get it now? You can oppose something for yourself while not trying to coerce others to follow. Let states decide.

And yet, you took issue with "cancel culture", which is just the free market in operation.

Seriously, is there any maxim you state that you actually believe to be true? Because you're not being honest about this stuff, at all, here. You're contradicting yourself every second sentence, practically.

And who drummed up this hysteria? MSM and bored activists looking to cause trouble. Suddenly you have "activists" digging into old tweets of various people to "call out" insensitive tweets. Why is it that cancel culture is more prelevent on the left than it is on the right?

You mean the system that was an absolute and colossal failure and led to Texans freezing to death this last winter?

Imagine defending that decision in the aftermath of that tragic failure of basic infrastructure management.

Do you even live here? Federal regulations would not have prevented this. If anything, federal red tape would have made it even harder to upgrade.

[JohnBrown1917]

I OPPOSE the death penalty, but I DON'T WANT the federal government to force states to end the death penalty. It's a state's rights issue, get it now? You can oppose something for yourself while not trying to coerce others to follow. Let states decide.



And who drummed up this hysteria? MSM and bored activists looking to cause trouble. Suddenly you have "activists" digging into old tweets of various people to "call out" insensitive tweets. Why is it that cancel culture is more prelevent on the left than it is on the right?



Do you even live here? Federal regulations would not have prevented this. If anything, federal red tape would have made it even harder to upgrade.

Not forcing them to upgrade it would somehow not have prevented it?


lol

[Edge-]

And who drummed up this hysteria? MSM and bored activists looking to cause trouble. Suddenly you have "activists" digging into old tweets of various people to "call out" insensitive tweets. Why is it that cancel culture is more prelevent on the left than it is on the right?

Calling out assholes for being assholes isn't "cancel culture". And it's extremely prominent "on the right", have you not seen Mitch McConnel, Trump and others telling Coca Cola to shut up about the GA voting law and promoting boycotts? And boycotts for the MLB for pulling the All-Star game? That's the same functional thing, it's just not "cancel culture" when they do it.

Do you even live here? Federal regulations would not have prevented this. If anything, federal red tape would have made it even harder to upgrade.

The whole reason it all fell apart was BECAUSE it was state-operate and not connected to the federal grid, and consequently not federally regulated.

[Endus]

I OPPOSE the death penalty, but I DON'T WANT the federal government to force states to end the death penalty. It's a state's rights issue, get it now? You can oppose something for yourself while not trying to coerce others to follow. Let states decide.

This means you don't oppose the death penalty.

Like I said; you contradict yourself constantly.

And who drummed up this hysteria? MSM and bored activists looking to cause trouble. Suddenly you have "activists" digging into old tweets of various people to "call out" insensitive tweets. Why is it that cancel culture is more prelevent on the left than it is on the right?

As someone who grew up playing D&D during the "Satanic Panic" of the '80s, you're just flat-out wrong about this.

You are, again, attacking the free market. So much for your "libertarianism"; it's becoming pretty clear your views are just regular-grade far-right authoritarian conservativism.

Do you even live here? Federal regulations would not have prevented this. If anything, federal red tape would have made it even harder to upgrade.

That's just a lie. You're lying. It's entirely due to Texas' insistence on separating from federal integration that led to their power grid's collapse and the deaths of Texans due to that collapse.

https://www.jhunewsletter.com/articl...wer-grids-fail

[Felya]

And who drummed up this hysteria? MSM and bored activists looking to cause trouble. Suddenly you have "activists" digging into old tweets of various people to "call out" insensitive tweets. Why is it that cancel culture is more prelevent on the left than it is on the right?

Because you are blind and historically illiterate...

[Edge-]

As someone who grew up playing D&D during the "Satanic Panic" of the '80s, you're just flat-out wrong about this.

Rock n Roll ain't noise pollution, yo!

[Felya]

As someone who grew up playing D&D during the "Satanic Panic" of the '80s, you're just flat-out wrong about this.

It still hasn’t stopped, see PizzaGate...



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Rock n Roll ain't noise pollution, yo!

Only if you play the records backwards... yes, conservatives tried to ban music, because of the sound it made when playing backwards.

[Edge-]

It still hasn’t stopped, see PizzaGate...

Man, Carpenter Brut has been my jam for a while now. You have excellent choice in music.

- - - Updated - - -

Only if you play the records backwards... yes, conservatives tried to ban music, because of the sound it made when playing backwards.

Just do it, do it....

It was all the Nike pre-guerilla marketing after all!

[Felya]

Just do it, do it....

It was all the Nike pre-guerilla marketing after all!

Here is Melvins putting a lot of that backwards listening into a song, while trying not to laugh:



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Just a reminder... Conservatives cancelled Elvis’s hips... not all of Elvis, just his hips... Where the fuck do you think the term “think of the children” came from?

If you think that’s old... they tried to cancel a wet ass pussy as well... Ben Shapiro didn’t even know such thing existed. Had to ask his wife if it’s a sign of illness...

[Sole-Warrior]

This means you don't oppose the death penalty.

I oppose the death penalty for MY STATE, this doesn't mean I want to criminalize the use of the death penalty in other states. Why is it with the left that is so obsessed with control? It seems it's the progressives now that want more power to the feds, not the "right". Right wingers and libertarians in general just want their state to be left alone and do not care as much to what happens in other states. It's the left that is so obsessed with giving the federal government enormous power. For fuck sakes the feds have banned the use of the death penalty as it applies to even aggravated child rape. This is just how tyrannical the feds are. They only allow states to use the death penalty in very specific types of murders. Are you happy with giving the federal government this much power? And where do you draw the line? Would you be OK if there is some supranational organization that criminalizes the use of the death penalty worldwide? Are you sure you want to live in that kind of world? It would be a freighting world for liberty and limited government if that were to happen.

As someone who grew up playing D&D during the "Satanic Panic" of the '80s, you're just flat-out wrong about this.

It was not the libertarian right, they were religious right. Modern progressives have far more in common with the religious authoritarian than with libertarians. Most anti-sjws are right wing libertarian. We don't want to be controlled. But as of now, it's the progressives that are more controlling than religious authoritarians. It's progressives trying to pass affirmative action, trying to get the feds to ban state level death penalty, telling us how to run our abortion laws and what not. Stay in your lane, worry about your OWN state, and leave my state alone. Is all I ask of progressives. If you want to set up whatever society you want in your state, fine, just don't force those values onto me.

[Glorious Leader]

Libertarians are not anarchists. Libertarians are generally speaking devout supporters of private property. Private property is the arguable the grossest and most exploitative form or hierarchy and domination one can imagine. Anarchy stands opposed to this. Anarchy is the end of hierarchy.

[Sole-Warrior]

Libertarians are not anarchists. Libertarians are generally speaking devout supporters of private property. Private property is the arguable the grossest and most exploitative form or hierarchy and domination one can imagine. Anarchy stands opposed to this. Anarchy is the end of hierarchy.

But private property means you get to own your computer, your car, your house, how is it exploitative?

[Edge-]

But private property means you get to own your computer, your car, your house, how is it exploitative?

It also, for quite a long time, meant people.

[Glorious Leader]

But private property means you get to own your computer, your car, your house, how is it exploitative?

Anarchists make a distinction between possession and private property

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/libr...aq-03-17#toc17

[downnola]

Here is Melvins putting a lot of that backwards listening into a song, while trying not to laugh:

My guy.

Saw them twice at the Grog Shop in Cleveland. Def in the top 5 shows I've seen.

[Endus]

I oppose the death penalty for MY STATE, this doesn't mean I want to criminalize the use of the death penalty in other states.

Which means you don't actually oppose the death penalty.

Opposing the death penalty means you want to see it abolished. Not that you're perfectly willing to let anyone continue to make use of it if they want to.

Why is it with the left that is so obsessed with control?

Yeah, we're not. You just apparently don't understand the point, here.

It seems it's the progressives now that want more power to the feds, not the "right". Right wingers and libertarians in general just want their state to be left alone and do not care as much to what happens in other states. It's the left that is so obsessed with giving the federal government enormous power.

Not "enormous". Just "more than you want".

And it's not a question of "how much". It's very much about how it's to be used.

For fuck sakes the feds have banned the use of the death penalty as it applies to even aggravated child rape. This is just how tyrannical the feds are.

Tyrannical.

For not allowing the death penalty for federal crimes.

I don't believe you actually understand what "tyrannical" means.

They only allow states to use the death penalty in very specific types of murders. Are you happy with giving the federal government this much power?

Why wouldn't I be? It's disturbing enough that the federal government allows any State to enact the death penalty at all. Puts you in the same company as nations like Iran and China, and pretty much unique in the developed world.

It's a barbaric and ridiculous and ineffective institution. There is no utility to retaining it in any sense whatsoever.

And where do you draw the line? Would you be OK if there is some supranational organization that criminalizes the use of the death penalty worldwide? Are you sure you want to live in that kind of world? It would be a freighting world for liberty and limited government if that were to happen.

And what if that same organization, like, criminalized rape around the world? Or even murder? How tyrannical.

You're just kneejerking in frustration that government exists. Hell, I just need to point out what you said to provide all the condemnation I need to of your position. It's a radical and abusive viewpoint, that seeks to permit violent abuses of human rights.

It was not the libertarian right, they were religious right.

There really isn't a distinction there. Also, you were the one claiming that "cancel culture" was a left-wing thing.

Modern progressives have far more in common with the religious authoritarian than with libertarians. Most anti-sjws are right wing libertarian. We don't want to be controlled. But as of now, it's the progressives that are more controlling than religious authoritarians.

You're being ridiculous.

Anti-SJWs are the ones bleating about "cancel culture", when that's just people calling out bigots for what they are, and then society reacting accordingly. That's not overbearing government, that's just free people rejecting abusive conduct.

This has no similarity to the religious right. Who are literally a part of the right wing. Half the shit you're talking about involves using government power to oppose free action.

It's progressives trying to pass affirmative action, trying to get the feds to ban state level death penalty, telling us how to run our abortion laws and what not.

Oh, look, abortion.

That entire issue is right-wingers trying to use government power to oppress women's basic human rights, for religious reasons. And progressives and centrists both rejecting that, and supporting women's freedom.

If you're taking a pro-life stance, you're anti-freedom. You're the one arguing for increased government control.

This is what I mean about you not actually believing your own supposed positions.

Stay in your lane, worry about your OWN state, and leave my state alone. Is all I ask of progressives. If you want to set up whatever society you want in your state, fine, just don't force those values onto me.

So, going by the positions you took issue with, you want your State to be able to oppress and marginalize black Americans, to oppress women's rights and freedoms, and to kill whoever you wish to.

All of those are positions that support and further authoritarianism and abuse. You're not defending freedom, here, at all, other than the freedom to hurt and oppress others. And you're whining that the federal government sometimes tells you "no".

[Mayhem]

Would you be OK if there is some supranational organization that criminalizes the use of the death penalty worldwide? Are you sure you want to live in that kind of world? It would be a freighting world for liberty and limited government if that were to happen.

Why not? I mean, you seem to be against the death penalty so... hu? Are you now pro death penalty because countries or just states, a weird distinction why not just counties should have the right to kill people?

[Ursus]

When I was a minor, I used to like liberals a lot more than I do now, but then I realize they were very controlling, like trying to ban the death penalty on the federal level, telling states how their abortion laws should be, and not to mention the huge issue of cancel culture and guilt by association.

Uh what the fuck? You realize the overwhelming majority of libertarians oppose the death penalty, right?

It sounds like you're just fine with the government executing people as long as it's a state government doing it. You're not actually a libertarian, you're a states' rights person masquerading as a libertarian.

[Felya]

My guy.

Saw them twice at the Grog Shop in Cleveland. Def in the top 5 shows I've seen.

I saw them open for Jello Biafra and then put on masks to be Jello’s band once their set ended. In a tiny venue that’s about a block from where “CHAZ” was...

The album name... Sieg Howdy!... is downright prophetic from 2005...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieg_Howdy!