Your pick for the next WoW class; 2021 edition

[Teriz]

Which once again doesn't help with the "APPEAL AND SALES" part. Dragonsworn aren't as known as the others... I'm not talking about that they CAN'T be introduced or how it would be done. I'm literally just talking about how known they are, and how established Dragonsworns are.

Unless I'm missing something, hence my question at the start. "How prominent are dragonsworn?" How well known is it?. If it's not, then it lacks in the "appeal and sales" scale. Might have big appeal from more devoted fans, but for the masses? Doubt it... if blizzard were to announce it, i once again have to say that I think a lot of people would go "wtf is a dragonsworn?".

Which is why I pointed out Wrathion and Chromie. Do you feel that those characters are prominent/popular? If Blizzard puts out an expansion with Wrathion on the cover with a black dragon behind him, do you think that would entice players? I believe so. There's a LOT of Wrathion fan art out there, and his appearance in Legion and BFA as an adult enhanced his popularity quite a bit.

Side note: Why would Dragons be called Dragon"sworn"? To me that name implies someone who sworns their allegiance or loyalty to, in this case, dragons. By that allegiance and loyalty they have been awarded with some dragon skills and transformations. To me that makes more sense to the name of the class than the opposite... but that's just a side detail. Doesn't change that any race can be it either. Dragonflight might be better if we go for the inverse that they are dragons who disguises themselves, though it doesn't really sound like class.

No argument here. I just chose the name Dragonsworn because of the Blizzard class from the TTRPG. Blizzard could easily call them something else/more appropriate.

[StillMcfuu]

I'll take a group of Spear/polearm weilding dragon killers, like ffxiv. Always felt wow was missing a "hoplite" like class.

Otherwise I still want to see shadow hunter, spellbreaker, etc specs.

[Teriz]

I'll take a group of Spear/polearm weilding dragon killers, like ffxiv. Always felt wow was missing a "hoplite" like class.

Otherwise I still want to see shadow hunter, spellbreaker, etc specs.

Why don't you play as a Survival Hunter? You can equip polearms, and utilize poisons and bombs. Not to mention the ability to tame Cloud Serpents which greatly resemble dragons.

Additionally, the Harpoon ability and Disengage is very similar to jumping from FFXIV.

[Kumorii]

Which is why I pointed out Wrathion and Chromie. Do you feel that those characters are prominent/popular? If Blizzard puts out an expansion with Wrathion on the cover with a black dragon behind him, do you think that would entice players? I believe so. There's a LOT of Wrathion fan art out there, and his appearance in Legion and BFA as an adult enhanced his popularity quite a bit.

Lower end of the prominent list... They aren't as big or well known as the others. Even if Wrathion has gotten the spotlight for a bit, it still have to problem that no class is exactly tied to them. We have plenty of mages running around, we have plenty of necromancers running around etc etc. People know what that is, tie it with a prominent character and boom, you have the ingredients of marketing for a class.

Having Wrathion on the front page won't remove the fact that people would still go "wtf is a dragonsworn?". Sure they know it has something to do with dragons... but that's it. It won't give much hint on what abilities and stuff you can do except maybe being a dragon. I just know wrathions "skills" from N'zoth raid, and that's not really something exciting. Also it would be changed heavily ofc due to it being a raid ability.

Anyway, dragonsworn can absolutely work as a class. I just don't think it would be a strong marketing selling point for an expansion simply due to obscurity of what it is. Thus I found it weird to be nr 2 on the "appeal and sales" scale of the post I quoted.

Enough from me on this matter.

[Teriz]

Lower end of the prominent list... They aren't as big or well known as the others. Even if Wrathion has gotten the spotlight for a bit, it still have to problem that no class is exactly tied to them. We have plenty of mages running around, we have plenty of necromancers running around etc etc. People know what that is, tie it with a prominent character and boom, you have the ingredients of marketing for a class.

Well we also have plenty of disguised dragons around too. I mean they're EXTREMELY common in Azeroth, and we encounter them on a very consistent basis. I would argue that I've run into more hidden dragons in Azeroth than I have Necromancers.

Also I agree that this isn't a common class. This is a very Warcraft/Blizzard specific class along the same lines as the Demon Hunter.

Having Wrathion on the front page won't remove the fact that people would still go "wtf is a dragonsworn?". Sure they know it has something to do with dragons... but that's it. It won't give much hint on what abilities and stuff you can do except maybe being a dragon. I just know wrathions "skills" from N'zoth raid, and that's not really something exciting. Also it would be changed heavily ofc due to it being a raid ability.

I'm sure people will wonder WTF a Dragonsworn is, and Blizzard will happily describe what it is for them. I mean, they'll tell you what they are and can do from the announcement trailer right? I simply don't see a scenario where people wouldn't be excited to play as a gotdamn dragon.

As for their skills and mechanics, check out Chromie and especially Alexstraza in HotS. They would be excellent for a WoW class.

Anyway, dragonsworn can absolutely work as a class. I just don't think it would be a strong marketing selling point for an expansion simply due to obscurity of what it is. Thus I found it weird to be nr 2 on the "appeal and sales" scale of the post I quoted.

Enough from me on this matter.

A Dragon Isles expansion, which makes sense because Wrathion is looking for them, Wrathion now being a caretaker of a newfound cache of Twilight Drake eggs, and there's supposed rumblings about the Infinite Dragonflight causing some problems in the near future. Seems like a layup IMO.

[Biomega]

Anyway, dragonsworn can absolutely work as a class. I just don't think it would be a strong marketing selling point for an expansion simply due to obscurity of what it is.

I think this is actually a more important point than most people realize. You need to have something people can visualize in some way - either because they have established lore already (like Demon Hunters did) or because they're intuitively accessible (like e.g. Monks). Dragonsworn disappoint in both categories, as they're - as was already said - only very vaguely defined and no one has any clear picture of who/what they even are.

In all honesty, I think Dragonsworn would work better as a new RACE rather than a new class. Cool horns and scales tacked onto various humanoid forms, maybe a breath attack racial; heck they could even grow wings as their flying mount, that'd be cool. IMO a much better way to implement this than trying to come up with new class mechanics based around some vague dragon theme. Even if you take Wrathion as a template - what did he really DO that was very dragon-y? Jump and stab N'zoth? More of a Rogue move, tbh.

[Teriz]

I think this is actually a more important point than most people realize. You need to have something people can visualize in some way - either because they have established lore already (like Demon Hunters did) or because they're intuitively accessible (like e.g. Monks). Dragonsworn disappoint in both categories, as they're - as was already said - only very vaguely defined and no one has any clear picture of who/what they even are.

In all honesty, I think Dragonsworn would work better as a new RACE rather than a new class. Cool horns and scales tacked onto various humanoid forms, maybe a breath attack racial; heck they could even grow wings as their flying mount, that'd be cool. IMO a much better way to implement this than trying to come up with new class mechanics based around some vague dragon theme. Even if you take Wrathion as a template - what did he really DO that was very dragon-y? Jump and stab N'zoth? More of a Rogue move, tbh.

Again, I'm curious as to why people have this viewpoint.

We have Wrathion who when you initially encounter him he is in his dragon form utilizing a variety of skills. Once you beat him, he reverts back to his humanoid form and helps you defeat N'Zoth. Right there you have a template for a class mechanic; Shifting from humanoid to dragon and vice versa. That's pretty much a similar mechanic to Druids.

However, even beyond that, we have Alexstraza from HotS who takes this mechanic even further and gives us a wide variety of mechanics that differentiate it from the Druid class and gives us yet another template to work with.

When it comes to specializations, there's multiple paths you can utilize. Blizzard can go all in with the 5 aspects and make 5 specs (doubtful), they could utilize lesser known Dragonflights like Storm or Netherwing, or they could focus on one flight such as the newfound Twilight Dragonflight eggs that Wrathion is now watching over and allow the player to be an uncorrupted Twilight Drake working with Wrathion.

Again, I'm curious as to why people think this is a long shot with so much Warcraft lore and development behind it, yet think Bards is a possibility when they don't have anything close to the amount of lore or development behind them.

[Biomega]

Again, I'm curious as to why people have this viewpoint.

We have Wrathion who when you initially encounter him he is in his dragon form utilizing a variety of skills. Once you beat him, he reverts back to his humanoid form and helps you defeat N'Zoth. Right there you have a template for a class mechanic; Shifting from humanoid to dragon and vice versa. That's pretty much a similar mechanic to Druids.

However, even beyond that, we have Alexstraza from HotS who takes this mechanic even further and gives us a wide variety of mechanics that differentiate it from the Druid class and gives us yet another template to work with.

Because "shifting to dragon form" is incredibly vague, and a lot of the time just involves them breathing fire on something. There's nothing deeper than that, really - and that's not even going into the fact that they turn into actual fully-fledged big-ass DRAGONS, and that's never going to happen for actual players because it'd be way too much visual bloat in groups.

That's why I'm saying it would work better as a race - just have some racial where you dragon out for a second to do a big breath or whatever, and stay regular the rest of the time.

It sounds like what you're asking for is druid, but with dragonoid forms. Sure, I can dig that - so make the race able to be druids, and have their druid forms be drakonids, drakes, whatever. That's a lot more feasible than trying to shoehorn in some "druid, but with dragons!" kind of class based solely on the fact that Wrathion and Alexstrasza occasionally turn into something you'll never turn into yourself to deliver ONE attack.

[Teriz]

Because "shifting to dragon form" is incredibly vague, and a lot of the time just involves them breathing fire on something. There's nothing deeper than that, really - and that's not even going into the fact that they turn into actual fully-fledged big-ass DRAGONS, and that's never going to happen for actual players because it'd be way too much visual bloat in groups.

Nah, you could have the actual dragon form be no larger than a typical dragon mount. If that's too large, Blizzard could make it even smaller;



As for mechanic depth, yes you can have it based around breathing fire. You can have typical cone-based fire attack, or you can pull from Alexstraza in HotS and have an arial bombardment ability. However beyond that you could have a wing flap ability and that pushes enemies away, you could have a stomp ability that stuns, or a tail ability that could act as an AoE. These abilities could all shift you into dragon form for a short period of time. Additionally, I would add a few dragon form specific abilities that are open to the player while they are in dragon form, much like the old version of Metmaorphosis in the Warlock class in MoP and WoD. Again, there's a lot you can do with this.

That's why I'm saying it would work better as a race - just have some racial where you dragon out for a second to do a big breath or whatever, and stay regular the rest of the time.

Eh, I don't believe that fulfills the fantasy enough.

It sounds like what you're asking for is druid, but with dragonoid forms. Sure, I can dig that - so make the race able to be druids, and have their druid forms be drakonids, drakes, whatever. That's a lot more feasible than trying to shoehorn in some "druid, but with dragons!" kind of class based solely on the fact that Wrathion and Alexstrasza occasionally turn into something you'll never turn into yourself to deliver ONE attack.

I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree.

.

[Biomega]

As for mechanic depth, yes you can have it based around breathing fire. You can have typical cone-based fire attack, or you can pull from Alexstraza in HotS and have an arial bombardment ability. However beyond that you could have a wing flap ability and that pushes enemies away, you could have a stomp ability that stuns, or a tail ability that could act as an AoE. These abilities could all shift you into dragon form for a short period of time. Additionally, I would add a few dragon form specific abilities that are open to the player while they are in dragon form, much like the old version of Metmaorphosis in the Warlock class in MoP and WoD. Again, there's a lot you can do with this.

The problem is, that's not good design. If so many abilities turn you into a dragon, very quickly that becomes a stale gag - and people ask why am I not a dragon full-time, then. Also, turning into a tiny less-than-mount-sized dragon is far from impressive; something like a drakonid or wyrmkin would be more appropriate for that, and then again the question is immediately "why not always?".

That's the problem with impressive transformations. They become less impressive the more they're used, and the more you use them, the less visually impressive they can be or there's too much visual disruption.

Also, the bread-and-butter of a class is almost more important than their exceptional abilities. What do you do IN BETWEEN the fire breaths, tail swipes, wing buffets? How does THAT set you apart from other classes, and how is it the core identity of the class? That's where the vagueness comes in and people have very little idea what it would be - is this a caster? a ranged damage dealer? a melee? what weapons are they using? Etc. etc. None of those conjures up a visual the way it did for previously added classes. It's all just "well it's a class that does... something... and then turns into a dragon occasionally". That's marketing red flags all over the place.

[Teriz]

The problem is, that's not good design. If so many abilities turn you into a dragon, very quickly that becomes a stale gag - and people ask why am I not a dragon full-time, then. Also, turning into a tiny less-than-mount-sized dragon is far from impressive; something like a drakonid or wyrmkin would be more appropriate for that, and then again the question is immediately "why not always?".

That's the problem with impressive transformations. They become less impressive the more they're used, and the more you use them, the less visually impressive they can be or there's too much visual disruption.

For some reason that was never the case with Metamorphosis.....

As for the size of the dragon, I don't think people would mind being this size;

Also, the bread-and-butter of a class is almost more important than their exceptional abilities. What do you do IN BETWEEN the fire breaths, tail swipes, wing buffets? How does THAT set you apart from other classes, and how is it the core identity of the class? That's where the vagueness comes in and people have very little idea what it would be - is this a caster? a ranged damage dealer? a melee? what weapons are they using? Etc. etc. None of those conjures up a visual the way it did for previously added classes. It's all just "well it's a class that does... something... and then turns into a dragon occasionally". That's marketing red flags all over the place.

Hence why people are free to read my class concept found in my signature.

[Biomega]

For some reason that was never the case with Metamorphosis.....

That depends on which meta you're referring to. The Warlock one was a single ability, that only happened as a big CD. Not on five different things. And the DH ones - especially the Vengeance one - are not very visually impressive. Heck sometimes you barely notice you've transformed.

As for the size of the dragon, I don't think people would mind being this size;

Players wouldn't. Their group members WOULD. Imagine being in melee with someone who turns into THAT every twenty seconds or whatever. Let alone multiple someones. That's absolute ass for groups, and heck in mythic raiding it might even kill you because you can't see the swirly or whatever.

[Teriz]

That depends on which meta you're referring to. The Warlock one was a single ability, that only happened as a big CD. Not on five different things. And the DH ones - especially the Vengeance one - are not very visually impressive. Heck sometimes you barely notice you've transformed.

Uh, check again. MoP and WoD versions of Warlock metamorphosis had multiple abilities that built up the demon fury bar. When it hit a certain point you transformed into a demon. Some abilities such as Demonic Leap turned you into a demon regardless of what stage you were in fury. Conversely, you could activate demon form and remain in that form until your fury bar hit zero. What resulted was a rather interesting dynamic where you would cast spells to build your bar, then enter demon form and burn your target down with demon-form specific abilities. Dragonsworn would work more similar to something like that than what you have with Druids.

The general point is that Demonology never became a stale gag. Instead it became a game within a game where Warlocks did what they could to remain in demon form as long as possible, and return to demon form as quickly as possible. Quite an enjoyable spec that I miss a great deal...

Players wouldn't. Their group members WOULD. Imagine being in melee with someone who turns into THAT every twenty seconds or whatever. Let alone multiple someones. That's absolute ass for groups, and heck in mythic raiding it might even kill you because you can't see the swirly or whatever.

This argument always flips around to other players disliking the large size to the player disliking the small size. It's truly an overblown and silly argument.

[Beuargh]

oh look!! another tinker/necromancer/bard thread!!! sure we don't have enough already.... how many times op posted his concept on this forums already?

but who knows?? maybe if he post it again and again and again, it will happen!!

blizz can't deal with the current amount of specs already but you guys want them to had even more. there is many existing specs that really need some love, some of them feel like they've been forgoten in a corner for years. adding more is not gonna help, it'll just create another fotm for some time until they try to balance it and fail, as usual.

[Raetary]

I'd say Necromancer, but that ship sunk to the bottom of the sea once Shadowlands was announced.

Instead, i want a Bard class.
It's by far the most versatile concept there is.

[jellmoo]

You can argue that the polls are flawed, but at the same time, the polls have also been rather consistent. Even with this poll, the status quo hasn't really changed other than a new found interest in Bards and Dragonsworn, and a sagging interest in Dark Rangers. Outside of that, this poll (currently) is pretty much going on a similar path as similar polls on this forum. Is it fair to say that a concept is very popular if it wins in a variety of polls over and over again over a span of time?

That's just the thing though, no it's not because if each poll is massively flawed you're just collecting the same flawed set of data multiple times and using it to reinforce a conclusion.

[Teriz]

That's just the thing though, no it's not because if each poll is massively flawed you're just collecting the same flawed set of data multiple times and using it to reinforce a conclusion.

The reasons why you say this particular poll is flawed has been addressed in other polls, and those polls still produced similar results.

[IAMANIKOLAS]

Voted for Dark Ranger as it checks some boxes like using ranged weapons and, being a mail user.

People who says it's too close to a Hunter just lack a bit of creativity imo. I made a concept for a Dark (/Void) Ranger that you can find in my signature. It's a unique concept very different from the Hunter that switches between ranged and melee combat with 2 specs specializing in either.

Heads up, the post is a bit outdated and some pictures may have been removed over time.

Op feel free to link to it in your post if you like.

[Teriz]

Voted for Dark Ranger as it checks some boxes like using ranged weapons and, being a mail user.

People who says it's too close to a Hunter just lack a bit of creativity imo. I made a concept for a Dark (/Void) Ranger that you can find in my signature. It's a unique concept very different from the Hunter that switches between ranged and melee combat with 2 specs specializing in either.

Heads up, the post is a bit outdated and some pictures may have been removed over time.

Op feel free to link to it in your post if you like.

Done! Thank you for your contribution.

[valax]

No card swiper option ? unrealistic list