Hard core raiders don't like the answer: but Blizzard is right about Power Infusion.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Not every "hard core raider" is identical to another.

That's rich coming you as the starter of this thread.

[LTN]

That makes no sense. Justify it. Unless you imply "my selfishness is above the guild".

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Listen to what? That some of them like it and support it or/and don't care about the selfishness of people mainly caring about logs and people who don't know how to read them in depth?

Not every "hard core raider" is identical to another.

They are pretty similar tbh.

The issue with PI and if sims stay the same blessing of seasons and the mage, lock, and rogue buffs back in the day are all the same.

They are annoying to balance around and eventually you run into the scenario where some spec with amazing scaling simply destroys a tier abusing it.

[I HATE CHAOS]

That makes no sense. Justify it. Unless you imply "my selfishness is above the guild".

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Listen to what? That some of them like it and support it or/and don't care about the selfishness of people mainly caring about logs and people who don't know how to read them in depth?

Not every "hard core raider" is identical to another.

I guess I will be crass and just say good players then.

This has all happened before and will happen again. Just like tricks of the trade, mage and warlock single buffs and seasons pally if sims stay the same. Single person buffs stay till that magical moment a single spec hits that sweet spot and breaks from them.

Blizzard maybe unable to learn from the past but its players are different. It also ruins DPS competitions to the point players have separated it out in logs though that is the lesser issue.

Like most of wows problems this is something that was already allowed to run its course a half dozen times already to the point you can chart out its results now.

[Dejiko]

If someone whines and cries about not getting PI, rest assured they are never getting it.
That`s the extent of this "social tension".

[kenn9530]

If you play with other humans: the social tension of "who gets PI" is something you should manage. Or put it another way: if you're such a hard core player and so good: learn to be good at managing social tension too.

Unless you are doing content undergeared and in the top 10 then it doesnt matter who gets PI, PI rarely makes a difference since content is not designed around having even the most perfect raid team.

[Al Gorefiend]

That makes no sense. Justify it. Unless you imply "my selfishness is above the guild".

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Listen to what? That some of them like it and support it or/and don't care about the selfishness of people mainly caring about logs and people who don't know how to read them in depth?

Not every "hard core raider" is identical to another.

justify it? Its my spell, in my toolkit. Blizzard making it castable on others does not change this. If they made pally wings castable on others is a ret pally selfish because he doesnt use it for others?

[epigramx]

good players then

What's good about those players? That they whine they don't worsen their guild's performance for a personal benefit?

That they whine because they want to show off skill to people who can't read the externals on the rankings?

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justify it? Its my spell

Your thread of answers is one of the most interesting in here, you are asked "why are you selfish in terms of the buffs in your guild?" and you answer it essentially "yes I'm selfish".

That's literally like saying I'll use Time Warp whenever because "it's my spell"; the scale has nothing to do with it; it's exactly the same quality of argument.

[Al Gorefiend]

What's good about those players? That they whine they don't worsen their guild's performance for a personal benefit?

That they whine because they want to show off skill to people who can't read the externals on the rankings?

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Your thread of answers is one of the most interesting in here, you are asked "why are you selfish in terms of the buffs in your guild?" and you answer it essentially "yes I'm selfish".

That's literally like saying I'll use Time Warp whenever because "it's my spell"; the scale has nothing to do with it; it's exactly the same quality of argument.

Power Infusion is nowhere near the same level of spell as Time Warp. I don't give my entire group a 10 minute debuff or screw over any other class capable of using lust.

Why were you selfish and decided to not roll a priest? Arent you aware they bring a powerful spell called Power Infusion?

[Caprias]

Tbh things can just stay like they are now (maybe make stuff like PI also feel better for the dd specs.)

Warcraftlogs will just have to adapt to Rdps/Pdps system so people can have their d*ck measuring contest.

[epigramx]

Power Infusion is nowhere near the same level

It doesn't matter. A turd does not stop being a turd just because it's smaller. One could use Time Warp when their cooldowns align because their selfish and ruin their guild performance; you are the same; you say: "my PI is mine so I am selfish and lower my guild performance because I want my DPS meter to look better".

[Candlewick]

It doesn't matter. A turd does not stop being a turd just because it's smaller. One could use Time Warp when their cooldowns align because their selfish and ruin their guild performance; you are the same; you say: "my PI is mine so I am selfish and lower my guild performance because I want my DPS meter to look better".

It simply breaks the game... this isnt a new thing its been around since the and everytime it lasts until one spec gains to much benefit or it pushes a strong spec into absurdly broken and gets removed.

Wow has a lot of faults but what it is known for is its hard content at end game. PI will eventually get the tricks of the trade treatment.

[Miffinat0r]

Wow has a lot of faults but what it is known for is its hard content at end game.

Holy Revisionisms Batman! WoW maybe now known for it's "hard" content at end game. But what made it big and popular was how casual the entire game was compared to it's competition at the time.

WoW players are really high on their own fake news. WoW was the casual MMORPG. Literally the devs designed it so everyone could play and not have the guild gatekeeping that you saw EQ develop into by the time PoP rolled around.

Yet somewhere players started saying things that aren't true. WoW wasn't known for it's raids. If you raided you knew, but most players did not raid. It was known for it's ease of playing, getting involved, and how not-restrictive the game was compared to EQ or UO....corpse runs those were things.

[Candlewick]

Holy Revisionisms Batman! WoW maybe now known for it's "hard" content at end game. But what made it big and popular was how casual the entire game was compared to it's competition at the time.

WoW players are really high on their own fake news. WoW was the casual MMORPG. Literally the devs designed it so everyone could play and not have the guild gatekeeping that you saw EQ develop into by the time PoP rolled around.

Yet somewhere players started saying things that aren't true. WoW wasn't known for it's raids. If you raided you knew, but most players did not raid. It was known for it's ease of playing, getting involved, and how not-restrictive the game was compared to EQ or UO....corpse runs those were things.

Everquest was over 15 (20?) years ago. It's time to let go of the past.

[Tyris Flare]

Everquest was over 15 (20?) years ago. It's time to let go of the past.

1999 lol. Almost 23 years ago at this point. UO 25+.

An era before most people had fast internet, let alone social media.

[Candlewick]

1999 lol. Almost 23 years ago at this point. UO 25+.

An era before most people had fast internet, let alone social media.

I just don't get why the goto rebuttal against making the game more challenging is a callback to a game over decades old..

Even looking at classic wow its clear people don't look at gaming the same way.

[Tyris Flare]

Well, a lot of people here are old and treat the world like it is still 2005. People are still hung up on changes to WoW made like 14 years ago, or systems that have existed longer than they haven't.

That's just MMO-C pool

[Candlewick]

Well, a lot of people here are old and treat the world like it is still 2005. People are still hung up on changes to WoW made like 14 years ago, or systems that have existed longer than they haven't.

That's just MMO-C pool

My ban from blizzards forums tastes all the more bitter now

[Al Gorefiend]

It doesn't matter. A turd does not stop being a turd just because it's smaller. One could use Time Warp when their cooldowns align because their selfish and ruin their guild performance; you are the same; you say: "my PI is mine so I am selfish and lower my guild performance because I want my DPS meter to look better".

My DPS meter lol. I get it, you think you're talking to a shadow priest. Let someone kick me from the guild for being selfish because I PI'd myself on a heavy healing phase this is getting funny

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It simply breaks the game... this isnt a new thing its been around since the and everytime it lasts until one spec gains to much benefit or it pushes a strong spec into absurdly broken and gets removed.

Wow has a lot of faults but what it is known for is its hard content at end game. PI will eventually get the tricks of the trade treatment.

Or it goes back to baseline discipline priest, healers bringing powerful buffs is nothing new.

[epigramx]

My DPS meter lol. I get it, you think you're talking to a shadow priest.

It doesn't matter. Healers fight over HPS rankings too. If your guild knows how to read logs it's not a problem; they'll know you gave it away to help them; if they don't: it's their fault.

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It simply breaks the game...

No more than Time Warp "breaks" the game. I could use it when my cooldowns align.

Stop being selfish or/and get your guild to know how to read logs in depth.

[Candlewick]

It doesn't matter. Healers fight over HPS rankings too. If your guild knows how to read logs it's not a problem; they'll know you gave it away to help them; if they don't: it's their fault.

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No more than Time Warp "breaks" the game. I could use it when my cooldowns align.

Stop being selfish or/and get your guild to know how to read logs in depth.

Trying to patronizing doesnt hide your own ignorance to how the game functions. Yes blood lust is the most powerful cool down and effects fight design but it is also accounted for in fight design. You can not do the same with singular buffs like the removed tricks of the trade. If you take a fight and have the most difficult phase be the last phase (painsmith for example) and have classes with amazing executes get buffed with tricks you then trivialize the encounter in a way that can only be done by stacking two specific classes.

This is the problem with PI, tricks of the trade before nerfs, and the mage and warlock buffs. They actively work against encounter design and limit class diversity. You droning out some weird personal stake or desire to be a unique snowflake does not factor into it.