STOP making the game for the top 0.01% of the players! It’s killing this game

[Azharok]

Tell me you haven't played FF14 without saying you haven't played FF14.

I've played it, stopped at the end of ARR because it was mind numblingly boring.

[Celement]

You aren't addressing what I said at all, so I'm not sure what to say. I never said that they only design content for 1% of players. I said they design content for that 1% of players and then give the rest of us shitty versions of it. It has been confirmed in interviews that they design mythic first and work backward from there, and its plain as day that they limit the scope of dungeon design to make sure all the dungeons fit the M+ system.

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Tell me you haven't played FF14 without saying you haven't played FF14.

If they designed mythic first why is mythic so broken and untested? Shouldn't it be the most polished?

Dungeons are designed for mythic plus as it is a massive system encompassing a massive range of difficulties.

[NineSpine]

I've played it, stopped at the end of ARR because it was mind numblingly boring.

Would you take someone seriously today if they ran pre-cata deadmines and then said wow dungeon design sucks?

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If they designed mythic first why is mythic so broken and untested? Shouldn't it be the most polished?

Dungeons are designed for mythic plus as it is a massive system encompassing a massive range of difficulties.

You seriously need me to explain to you why the version with the most mechanics has the most bugs? This is something you, presumably an adult, need someone else to explain to you?

[Azharok]

Would you take someone seriously today if they ran pre-cata deadmines and then said wow dungeon design sucks?

I'm saying that FF's design didn't draw me in. Is FF a bad game because i'm not playing it ? No. It's alright to not like stuff.

[Necromantic]

F14 also ironically has a higher skill floor than WoW.

You are correct with that. I know some people who hate FF but love WoW will say they don't agree but I've played both and objectively, yes, that's the case.

I find FF to be beyond boring though. Running dungeons is just pulls mobs, aoe em down on boss, repeat.

As for the toxicity in WoW M+, I guess when you start playing hyper competitive stuff where everyone thinks they are hot shit, it kinda seeps through. I'd argue the cross realm LFD system is more to blame than M+ on it's own.

Yeah, many of the dungeons are like that. I discussed this on their forums over a year ago and for some reason, that seems to appeal to many people. I think the concept of quicker dungeons is the reason. For people who don't have a lot of time to invest can progress. I fully empathize with them. Some of us older players don't have the free time we used to.

Your guess is as good as mine with why people in M+ are the way they are. Cross realm LFD definitely did not help at all. Call someone whatever you want and who cares? Odds are you'll never see them again. When it was your server only, your negative reputation spread.

[Celement]

Would you take someone seriously today if they ran pre-cata deadmines and then said wow dungeon design sucks?

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You seriously need me to explain to you why the version with the most mechanics has the most bugs? This is something you, presumably an adult, need someone else to explain to you?

More why the mechanics specific to that version that are apparently the oldest parts being tested since they are the " default " have the most bugs..

Yes I would actually like to see you attempt it.

[neocount]

I'm at this weird spot where I have a group that does +19 keys with relative ease, and yet we struggled with Heroic raid despite out-gearing it.

[NineSpine]

More why the mechanics specific to that version that are apparently the oldest parts being tested since they are the " default " have the most bugs..

Yes I would actually like to see you attempt it.

*sigh*... more mechanics means more potential for bugs.

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I'm saying that FF's design didn't draw me in. Is FF a bad game because i'm not playing it ? No. It's alright to not like stuff.

So, you would find it very silly and presumptuous for someone to make broad sweeping statements about the design of an MMO by content from its vanilla iteration?

[Ashana Darkmoon]

I'm at this weird spot where I have a group that does +19 keys with relative ease, and yet we struggled with Heroic raid despite out-gearing it.

Keys are just really easy this season because they haven't scaled with gear like the raid has. You can 2 chest some 20s with 1 dps getting beat by the tank and possibly even healer.

And I don't mean by doing insane pulls, i mean just by pushing w lol

[Celement]

*sigh*... more mechanics means more potential for bugs.

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So, you would find it very silly and presumptuous for someone to make broad sweeping statements about the design of an MMO by content from its vanilla iteration?

Yet these mechanics designed for mythic solely are the ones breaking most often?

What a coincidence

[NineSpine]

Yet these mechanics designed for mythic solely are the ones breaking most often?

What a coincidence

Something with more moving parts is more likely to have issues than something with fewer moving parts.

[Azharok]

So, you would find it very silly and presumptuous for someone to make broad sweeping statements about the design of an MMO by content from its vanilla iteration?

No I'm saying that since I didn't like the game, I don't play it. I'm not advocating on FF forums for them to change what I didn't like about that game. Since I respect that other people like stuff that I don't. Which doesn't seem to be the case with you.

[Necromantic]

Something with more moving parts is more likely to have issues than something with fewer moving parts.

I was going to make a marriage joke but I won't....

[Aydinx2]

Then you shouldn't say things that you don't mean. You know, like this:

...the quotation marks around 'play' heavily imply that I'm not doing something you think I should.

Then your reading comprehension is beyond awful.

Buying a token instead of actually playing the videogame is what I'm talking about. This isn't "I think you're playing wrong". Buying the token with real money is objectively not playing. You don't say "I played a game" when all you've done is buy it in a store and haven't even started it.

Literally the whole point of buying a token instead of grinding on characters is to spend real money in exchange for NOT playing. That's what's weird about what you said. You want to play 11 characters but then spend real money so you can play them less (can play them less, not have to play them less. Because again, this is all your choice).

[NineSpine]

No I'm saying that since I didn't like the game, I don't play it. I'm not advocating on FF forums for them to change what I didn't like about that game. Since I respect that other people like stuff that I don't. Which doesn't seem to be the case with you.

If you went to the FF forums and started claiming that wow dungeons suck because you did classic deadmines, I would hope someone there would call you out for your ignorance too. It's fine to be ignorant. I don't know much about Lost Ark because it turned me off pretty quickly, but if someone makes an argument about Lost Ark I'm not going to start chiming in with my ignorant, ill-informed opinion. I'd maybe.. ASK about the things I didn't understand, and try to gain an understanding, rather than dismiss things.

[Celement]

Something with more moving parts is more likely to have issues than something with fewer moving parts.

That isn't the case as it is constantly the parts for mythic specifically breaking...

[NineSpine]

That isn't the case as it is constantly the parts for mythic specifically breaking...

Mythic has more moving parts, therefore is more likely to have bugs. I appreciate that you are remarkably fragile and therefore admitting being even slightly wrong about anything is life-altering for you, but this was such a silly point for you to make in the first place and continually doubling down looks pathetic, not strong like you think it does.

[neocount]

Keys are just really easy this season because they haven't scaled with gear like the raid has. You can 2 chest some 20s with 1 dps getting beat by the tank and possibly even healer.

And I don't mean by doing insane pulls, i mean just by pushing w lol

That might be true, but we've definitely noticed that the difficulty of raiding in general has gone up. We never had trouble with heroic raiding prior to Shadowlands. This is the case, in fact, for several "heroic" raid guilds on my server.

[Tyris Flare]

I appreciate that you are remarkably fragile and therefore admitting being even slightly wrong about anything is life-altering for you, but this was such a silly point for you to make in the first place and continually doubling down looks pathetic, not strong like you think it does.

This is an unintentionally hilarious self-own btw

[Azharok]

If you went to the FF forums and started claiming that wow dungeons suck because you did classic deadmines, I would hope someone there would call you out for your ignorance too. It's fine to be ignorant. I don't know much about Lost Ark because it turned me off pretty quickly, but if someone makes an argument about Lost Ark I'm not going to start chiming in with my ignorant, ill-informed opinion. I'd maybe.. ASK about the things I didn't understand, and try to gain an understanding, rather than dismiss things.

Just watched a Smileton dungeon run. It looks as boring as what I've played. The only thing I claimed is that I personnaly found FF to be very boring and lackluster. It wasn't "fun" nor was it challenging enough for me to actually keep playing it even if someone said "it gets better when you're max lvl".