STOP making the game for the top 0.01% of the players! It’s killing this game

[NineSpine]

Yeah except this was never case if you were casual in past you would walk in some blue dungeon gear.

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I dont want to sound harsh but when i see someone argue and use "IF" in their argument. It means in most of the time they are full of BS. If that ,if this and if that then everthing is easy right? Like if you do this and learn that and if you corectly do this then killing boss is easy. You dont say.

It doesn't matter if it was ever technically the case. It's good design, and the ungodly number of tiers of gear they have now is bad design. Needing four different raid difficulties is an admission of total failure in game design.

[arkanon]

I wish you would have gotten to it sooner. I saw certain yawning in my future. Again, not once have I ever said ANY of these things were not difficult, but the bottom line is:

Eventually, with practice, you are guaranteed to complete the most complicated of tasks, no matter WHAT they maybe. Eventually, you will master it. When it comes to hunting Rare mounts, they are solely LUCK based. I can ABSOLUTEY take down a 3-wing raid on mythic at some point, but there is NO GUARANTEE I will ever see the rare mount, making it the more difficult task. You can master one through hard work, but you can never master the latter.

And as unimportant as this topic truly is, I'm out. Good luck to you.

But.....you are wrong. There are countless things you will NEVER complete, not matter how much you practice, and you certainly don't stand a chance of competing at the highest level.

Don't tell me you actually believe "you can do anything if you set your mind to it!". You know that's just something parents tell their toddlers, right?

[Echocho]

Yeah except this was never case if you were casual in past you would walk in some blue dungeon gear.

Yeah that's a lie. Even way back in vanilla you could get epic gear purely from solo or queued content.

[Twdft]

It doesn't matter if it was ever technically the case. It's good design, and the ungodly number of tiers of gear they have now is bad design. Needing four different raid difficulties is an admission of total failure in game design.

There are millions of players with wildly different skill levels. Video games had difficulty settings since almost forever. Why do you think having them in WoW is bad design?

[Echocho]

There are millions of players with wildly different skill levels. Video games had difficulty settings since almost forever. Why do you think having them in WoW is bad design?

It matters in a multiplayer game.

[Twdft]

It matters in a multiplayer game.

Doom is a multiplayer game.

Anyhow, why does it matter? Why should there only be one difficulty of a raid?

[Skildar]

It's not an issue that people playing the lowest difficulty or no organized content get highest gear and unique rewards of their own.

You need to balance how fast and predeterministic the reward acquisition is compared to more complexe activities.

Mythic raiding should reward players with the best gear fast and reliably (with little RNG). Whereas LFR raiders should get lower gear fast and reliably while also having a shot at the best gear but slowly with quite a good portion of RNG.

It's tricky to balance this philosophy for normal and heroic but you would ensure that anyone can have something to look for without feeling like their efforts are not rewarded.

[HansOlo]

It's not an issue that people playing the lowest difficulty or no organized content get highest gear and unique rewards of their own.

You need to balance how fast and predeterministic the reward acquisition is compared to more complexe activities.

Mythic raiding should reward players with the best gear fast and reliably (with little RNG). Whereas LFR raiders should get lower gear fast and reliably while also having a shot at the best gear but slowly with quite a good portion of RNG.

It's tricky to balance this philosophy for normal and heroic but you would ensure that anyone can have something to look for without feeling like their efforts are not rewarded.

76 pages of suggestions - this is one of the few posts that makes sense - both from implementation standpoint and sensible encouragement for the player. I think they would like this on the official forums.

Well done

[NineSpine]

There are millions of players with wildly different skill levels. Video games had difficulty settings since almost forever. Why do you think having them in WoW is bad design?

Having a couple of difficulty settings is not necessarily bad depending on how it is implemented. Having too many difficulty settings means you have failed to construct your content in such a way that it can work for a wide enough band of players.

And it comes with nasty side effects like insane levels of power inflation through gear, which ends up breaking balance. It wastes design resources. It ends up producing unfun versions of fights because instead of having to make sure 10 fights are fun, you have to make sure 4 versions of 10 fights are fun. This results in some versions of the fights, typically in the lower difficulties, being really bad experiences.

As it stands, there is so much overlap between difficulties that it barely makes sense. The second half of normal and the first half of heroic are typically very close in difficulty, and the same is true for heroic to mythic.

[Echocho]

It's not an issue that people playing the lowest difficulty or no organized content get highest gear and unique rewards of their own.

You need to balance how fast and predeterministic the reward acquisition is compared to more complexe activities.

Mythic raiding should reward players with the best gear fast and reliably (with little RNG). Whereas LFR raiders should get lower gear fast and reliably while also having a shot at the best gear but slowly with quite a good portion of RNG.

It's tricky to balance this philosophy for normal and heroic but you would ensure that anyone can have something to look for without feeling like their efforts are not rewarded.

Yup. This makes perfect sense. Fast and hard or slow and easy.

You all end up at the same place but some will be done in a few weeks from playing sporadically and others will be done after a few months from playing every day.

[HansOlo]

Having a couple of difficulty settings is not necessarily bad depending on how it is implemented. Having too many difficulty settings means you have failed to construct your content in such a way that it can work for a wide enough band of players.

And it comes with nasty side effects like insane levels of power inflation through gear, which ends up breaking balance. It wastes design resources. It ends up producing unfun versions of fights because instead of having to make sure 10 fights are fun, you have to make sure 4 versions of 10 fights are fun. This results in some versions of the fights, typically in the lower difficulties, being really bad experiences.

As it stands, there is so much overlap between difficulties that it barely makes sense. The second half of normal and the first half of heroic are typically very close in difficulty, and the same is true for heroic to mythic.

Building blocks of a strawman.

[NineSpine]

Building blocks of a strawman.

That’s not what a straw man is, and you added nothing constructive. If you can’t understand why two difficulty settings might have different impacts on a game than 68 difficulty settings, I don’t know what to tell you.

[HansOlo]

That’s not what a straw man is, and you added nothing constructive. If you can’t understand why two difficulty settings might have different impacts on a game than 68 difficulty settings, I don’t know what to tell you.

I believe suggesting something compelty impossible to implement and argue with that it "depends on how you implement" is not constructive either.

[Gorsameth]

Having a couple of difficulty settings is not necessarily bad depending on how it is implemented. Having too many difficulty settings means you have failed to construct your content in such a way that it can work for a wide enough band of players.

And it comes with nasty side effects like insane levels of power inflation through gear, which ends up breaking balance. It wastes design resources. It ends up producing unfun versions of fights because instead of having to make sure 10 fights are fun, you have to make sure 4 versions of 10 fights are fun. This results in some versions of the fights, typically in the lower difficulties, being really bad experiences.

As it stands, there is so much overlap between difficulties that it barely makes sense. The second half of normal and the first half of heroic are typically very close in difficulty, and the same is true for heroic to mythic.

There is nothing stopping Blizzard from having less gaps between difficulty or tiers.

"oh no, someone can clear heroic in normal Ilvl" is not a problem.

[NineSpine]

There is nothing stopping Blizzard from having less gaps between difficulty or tiers.

"oh no, someone can clear heroic in normal Ilvl" is not a problem.

What’s stopping them is that there are too many difficulties so it is already too granular.

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I believe suggesting something compelty impossible to implement and argue with that it "depends on how you implement" is not constructive either.

You think it is… impossible… to have a game with fewer difficulties? I don’t even know how to respond to something that deluded.

[Tyris Flare]

Granular difficulty is great (one of the best things about m+). Power inflation is also great because it is fun to get strong and smash shit beneath you. Far more resources are "wasted" on shit like conduits/soulbinds than on any of this stuff.

The skill gap between people who play this game is so immense there's (probably) no good way to shrink difficulties without ruining the experience for someone.

[Echocho]

The skill gap between people who play this game is so immense there's (probably) no good way to shrink difficulties without ruining the experience for someone.

Yes it is. Just change the reward structure so that skill doesn't directly translate to more power for all eternity. Give out some grindy options, some timegated options, different ways to arrive at that destination that are less efficient.

[Williamsheikspare]

Game is game and try to pretend calm while playing it.

[Gorsameth]

What’s stopping them is that there are too many difficulties so it is already too granular.

Just No.

There is nothing stopping Blizzard from halving the ilvl difference between difficulties and rebalancing around the new numbers.
Where the additional challenge for a higher difficulty is extra abilities to account for and mistakes being made more punishing, for example having something just do high, but survivable damage on normal, 1 shotting on Heroic, and 1 shotting with raid AoE on Mythic.

Its not heresy to be able to clear Heroic in Normal gear if you play well enough.

[Coldkil]

Granular difficulty is great (one of the best things about m+). Power inflation is also great because it is fun to get strong and smash shit beneath you. Far more resources are "wasted" on shit like conduits/soulbinds than on any of this stuff.

The skill gap between people who play this game is so immense there's (probably) no good way to shrink difficulties without ruining the experience for someone.

The best part of M+ is actually that gear inflation caps "mid-way". Raids could make extreme use of the same granular difficulty system (without actual keys) but the problems are for the most part two:

- raids are still on a weekly lockout, because they're meant to be long activities and not a 20 minutes fast one. So you don't want to "waste" kills on lower levels while you may find yourself stuck on some bosses; best option would be a per-boss level setting. Also won't solve the fact that M+ are still spammable and you can target loot much better there.

- raid mechanics are designed to completely different factors compared to M+ and it's not just +hp and +dmg from bosses. I suppose they can add new boss mechanics at certain level thresholds much like it happens in M+, but having a flexible bigger group brings much more complications than with a static 5 person group. I don't know how bosses design would work and not be "dull" to be easily scalable to mimic M+ difficulties.