STOP making the game for the top 0.01% of the players! It’s killing this game

[Skildar]

I worked at Vicarious Visions for four years in the late 2000s, shipping multiple titles.

I don't want to imagine the responsibilities you were given then, because your feedback communication skills and problem solving skills seem to be rusty at best

[NineSpine]

I don't want to imagine the responsibilities you were given then, because your feedback communication skills and problem solving skills seem to be rusty at best

I'd love an example of where my problem solving skills are poor.

[Skildar]

I'd love an example of where my problem solving skills are poor.

pick one from your previous messages. You shut down people and slow conversations. You ignore feedback provided by people and force your opinion. It's getting frustrating to read, trust a bit more that other players have fun in their activities if they say so.

Don't dictate what is or not idiotic and try understanding why it is like this today, where we come from etc.

[NineSpine]

pick one from your previous messages. You shut down people and slow conversations. You ignore feedback provided by people and force your opinion. It's getting frustrating to read, trust a bit more that other players have fun in their activities if they say so.

Don't dictate what is or not idiotic and try understanding why it is like this today, where we come from etc.

Show me where I told someone they aren't having fun.

[Skildar]

Your argument is nonsensical. If Blizzard halved the item level difference and then rebalanced around the new numbers, you are in the exact same position you were before, just with different numbers. For example, if you half my damage output and also half the HP of every enemy, nothing changes except the numbers you see on the screen.

Four difficulties is far too many to balance encounters around mechanical, as opposed to numerical, differences. It means making 40 different fights fun in a 10 boss tier, which they already fail to do in the current model. They should just go down to two difficulties at most. Nothing is being gained with this absurd number of settings. We just end up with poorly designed fights.

this amongst many other comments. Whatever comment or other request you can make I won't answer now, this is just ridiculous...

[NineSpine]

this amongst many other comments. Whatever comment or other request you can make I won't answer now, this is just ridiculous...

I didn't tell anyone else that they aren't having fun in that quote. This appears to be frustrating for you because you are putting words in my mouth, so please don't act all aggrieved and huffy because the arguments you attributed to me cant be backed up.

[crusadernero]

Multiple difficulties results in us having 4 versions of the same item, this leads to us having very boring and generic loot which also feel less rewarding to grind for. We also have insane ilvl jumps every tier which results in ''play the patch'' where only the current raid is the relevant one and the loot you are currently using is obsolete.

Also, you don't need multiple difficulties to balance the raid. Ulduar is still regarded as the best raid of all time and it only had one difficulty. It had 10 man and 25 man instead so you could technically say it had two i guess, but it still had unique items that we don't have anymore. Solution is to use the Ulduar model with some very hard hardmodes for mythic players and balance the raid for everyone. More work for blizzard, but better result for everyone, except the mythic raiders. Make loot more fun and rewarding again. There is a reason why tbc raiding is more popular than retail raiding. More fun for casuals and the loot is crazy rewarding.

I agree with this. All these difficulties makes the overall game much more boring and it places little value in.. well, everything except the hardest difficulty that rewards the best gear. Its like one never ends gearing up or clearing content, cause theres always a higher difficulty to chase. Just to reach that highest difficulty, one gotta grind through lower tier difficulties too.

It just falls flat and makes of little interesting loot. Theres no point having it, cause theres always a stronger one of the same item. Got the LFR one? Do normal. Got the normal one? Do HC. Got the HC? Try Mythic.

I would very much welcome Ulduar raiding again, were the overall difficulty is not that hard. Were the fights have cool mechanis you can activate and be rewared with awesome items. The thing with Ulduar(and any other previous raids) was that we all did the same raids. We all entered these raids in the same settings and faced the same obstacles. These hardmodes were inside of the very same raid we all did. I think that matters in a MMORPG.

At what point have one really cleared content in retail wow these days? LFR? NormaL? HC? Mythic? M+ 25 key? We are in this infinite loop were difficulty or "the next level" never really stops, ever.

The question we gotta highlight in this is; Do the game overall benefit of having all these difficulties? I mean, LFR is piss easy and Mythic is very hard, but millions of players aint flocking to wow to experience it in either difficulty.

[NineSpine]

I agree with this. All these difficulties makes the overall game much more boring and it places little value in.. well, everything except the hardest difficulty that rewards the best gear. Its like one never ends gearing up or clearing content, cause theres always a higher difficulty to chase. Just to reach that highest difficulty, one gotta grind through lower tier difficulties too.

It just falls flat and makes of little interesting loot. Theres no point having it, cause theres always a stronger one of the same item. Got the LFR one? Do normal. Got the normal one? Do HC. Got the HC? Try Mythic.

I would very much welcome Ulduar raiding again, were the overall difficulty is not that hard. Were the fights have cool mechanis you can activate and be rewared with awesome items. The thing with Ulduar(and any other previous raids) was that we all did the same raids. We all entered these raids in the same settings and faced the same obstacles. These hardmodes were inside of the very same raid we all did. I think that matters in a MMORPG.

At what point have one really cleared content in retail wow these days? LFR? NormaL? HC? Mythic? M+ 25 key? We are in this infinite loop were difficulty or "the next level" never really stops, ever.

This lack of a sense of end goals or completion is a huge problem in the current model of the game.

[crusadernero]

This lack of a sense of end goals or completion is a huge problem in the current model of the game.

Yeah. I know I can force myself to think "Well, I did normal(any mode really except mythic) mode of this raid and therefore I have completed the game."

But that just doesnt sit right with me and it feels lackluster. Its just gotten worse over the years that by this point I dont even care about clearing a raid on LFR. Whats the point really? Unless I REALLY want to see the inside of the raid, theres no point at all.

The only thing that feels like an end goal is to level a char to max, but thats not really a feat these days and havent been for a long time.

I have several really good wow players on my friends list, that swapped over to BC classic long time ago from retail. They used to do mythic raiding on retail, now they do BC raids and classic raids before that. Of course they think the raids are much easier, but they also say its much more rewarding and fun to play. Its less hassle and more fun with guildies. Hanging out, killing bosses. Doing the content everyone does.

[NineSpine]

Yeah. I know I can force myself to think "Well, I did normal(any mode really except mythic) mode of this raid and therefore I have completed the game."

But that just doesnt sit right with me and it feels lackluster. Its just gotten worse over the years that by this point I dont even care about clearing a raid on LFR. Whats the point really? Unless I REALLY want to see the inside of the raid, theres no point at all.

The only thing that feels like an end goal is to level a char to max, but thats not really a feat these days and havent been for a long time.

It also doesn't help that the LFR versions of the encounters feel incomplete. They feel like you are playing the demo version of the game. This isn't because they are easy. This is because the mechanics are gutted and not engaging at all.

[crusadernero]

It also doesn't help that the LFR versions of the encounters feel incomplete. They feel like you are playing the demo version of the game. This isn't because they are easy. This is because the mechanics are gutted and not engaging at all.

Yeah, LFR is.. well, not great. Wouldnt recommend it to any new wow player.

[Osmeric]

Yeah. I know I can force myself to think "Well, I did normal(any mode really except mythic) mode of this raid and therefore I have completed the game."

But that just doesnt sit right with me and it feels lackluster. Its just gotten worse over the years that by this point I dont even care about clearing a raid on LFR. Whats the point really? Unless I REALLY want to see the inside of the raid, theres no point at all.

This is a demonstration that the mere presence of higher difficulty modes can ruin a MMO for more casual players, even if those players never attempt those modes.

[NineSpine]

This is a demonstration that the mere presence of higher difficulty modes can ruin a MMO for more casual players, even if those players never attempt those modes.

Some games get around this by making the Uber-difficult content segregated from the normal progression in some way, such as making it cosmetic only rewards or making it its own type of content entirely, not a harder mode.

In my ideal world, which would obviously make a lot of people unhappy who have become accustomed to the current model, heroic would be the hardest difficulty and the mythic-level challenges would be ulduar-style toggles on a couple of heroic fights, or they'd be an optional boss like Algalon.

[Necromantic]

I didn't tell anyone else that they aren't having fun in that quote. This appears to be frustrating for you because you are putting words in my mouth, so please don't act all aggrieved and huffy because the arguments you attributed to me cant be backed up.

I understand what he's saying. What he quoted, the first thing you said was "your argument is nonsensical" which is extremely dismissive. Leading off with "I disagree because" will yield a lot better results. Though it's not in the nature of people here, leading off with appreciation for feedback or discussion or even stating something you do agree with will draw a reader in before you state what you don't agree with. When you start off with a dismissive, condescending or insulting remark, they'll likely shut right down. This isn't even a "them" problem either. That's how people work.

[NineSpine]

I understand what he's saying. What he quoted, the first thing you said was "your argument is nonsensical" which is extremely dismissive. Leading off with "I disagree because" will yield a lot better results. Though it's not in the nature of people here, leading off with appreciation for feedback or discussion or even stating something you do agree with will draw a reader in before you state what you don't agree with. When you start off with a dismissive, condescending or insulting remark, they'll likely shut right down. This isn't even a "them" problem either. That's how people work.

That's not the first thing I said. I was nice. His response was "Just No." That's a direct quote. You are looking at my response to that. I already tried a friendly, detailed explanation. He acted condescending, dismissive, and intransigent in response.

[Soikona]

This lack of a sense of end goals or completion is a huge problem in the current model of the game.

Can’t believe I am going to agree with you, but yes I agree. I like to finish a toon, I like to get my BiS and take a break for a few weeks before a new tier. Now, it’s non stop due to the vault, keys, etc. it’s too much.

Ironically enough, with “more” to do, I play less. I used to maintain 3 toons before Legion, now just one.

[NineSpine]

Can’t believe I am going to agree with you, but yes I agree. I like to finish a toon, I like to get my BiS and take a break for a few weeks before a new tier. Now, it’s non stop due to the vault, keys, etc. it’s too much.

Ironically enough, with “more” to do, I play less. I used to maintain 3 toons before Legion, now just one.

Unity!

It does eventually start to feel like intentionally predatory design, rather than a genuine attempt to make sure the game is permanently engaging/

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Destiny 2 does a really cool job of this. You could grind that game basically forever to get better and better stuff, but they have the Seals, which are meta-achievements that represent full completion of content. Each season has a seal, each major activity has a seal, each expansion has a seal, etc.. It provides a really solid, satisfying sense of completion to finish your seal and get the title or other cosmetics that come with it.

[chickengoat]

I’m personally surprised the onus of design is on mythic content. The common sense approach would seem to be to focus on a solid normal experience. If you want a prestige system slap a ridiculous modifier on it and whomever happens to beat it gets a title/mount/etc. Don’t do ilvl advancement though. That sets up a perverse incentive. Let it be pure bragging rights.

[Skildar]

I’m personally surprised the onus of design is on mythic content. The common sense approach would seem to be to focus on a solid normal experience. If you want a prestige system slap a ridiculous modifier on it and whomever happens to beat it gets a title/mount/etc. Don’t do ilvl advancement though. That sets up a perverse incentive. Let it be pure bragging rights.

you still need something to sweeten progression. If it's not a weekly nerf and not gear upgrades then what how do you do it?

[Tyris Flare]

Can’t believe I am going to agree with you, but yes I agree. I like to finish a toon, I like to get my BiS and take a break for a few weeks before a new tier. Now, it’s non stop due to the vault, keys, etc. it’s too much.

Ironically enough, with “more” to do, I play less. I used to maintain 3 toons before Legion, now just one.

Not sure i get this. You can effectively finish a character with <2 months of vaults and valor upgrades, unless you mean absolutely 100% the best gear in every slot which has never been achievable quickly even in the classic era.

I didn't raid on my main last patch and I was still 252 3+ months before the patch ended. I took those months off and it was great.

I haven't raided this tier either and I have 3 characters at 275 already. This is the easiest it has been to gear up multiple characters without doing chores in....ever?