How did you feel about Vashj, Kael'Thas, Draka returning?

[LuxTheGamer]

Do you feel that other lore characters that we knew of in the past, should've been used instead of them? or do you feel that they fit whatever covenant and the story they had? I think Alexandros Mograine having a reunion with Mograine was cool.

Do you like Uther's usage as one of the Kyrians? Would you have preferred to have seen Doomhammer instead of Draka?

[chrisisvacant]

They were great choices. I think there was room for more. Strange that this was their opportunity to do a bit of a bonanza showing us tons of old faces but they just went with ones we were already pretty familiar with. It was fun to get to interact with Uther though! And I liked his story, it was the best one.

[Lupinemancer]

They were great choices. I think there was room for more. Strange that this was their opportunity to do a bit of a bonanza showing us tons of old faces but they just went with ones we were already pretty familiar with. It was fun to get to interact with Uther though! And I liked his story, it was the best one.

This is pretty much my opinion as well.

[Foolicious]

Making Draka a main character was an odd choice. It could have been literally any other character and the outcome would have been the same.

Vashj and kael'thas where fine. It's the general consensus that their stories where butchered in bc to make them raid bosses so im glad they tried to improve it now they had the chance to.

[Varodoc]

Kael'Thas and Vashj were chosen specifically because, back in TBC, Blizzard didn't think WoW and its lore were going to be so huge, so they had pretty much wasted the Outlands Trio. The first member of the trio, Illidan, was brought back and redeemed in Legion, it was a matter of time before they did the same with the other two members of the trio, Kael'Thas and Vashj. As the expansion took place in the afterlife, it made sense to include them.

Personally, I would have loved to see a meeting between Kael'Thas and Umbric, since they have quite a lot of similarities. Both were disgraced magisters who had basically been banished from their homeland, both meddled with dark powers. Their motivation is the same, to wield those dark powers in the defence of Quel'Thalas. I would be very curious to know what Kael'Thas thinks of Alleria, Magister Umbric, and the Ren'dorei. If I'm not mistaken, he still considers them countrymen, as he has unique dialogues with both the Blood elf and the Void elf PC.

In general, I would have liked to know more about Kael'Thas' opinions on current Quel'Thalas, divided between three major Thalassian groups.

Regardless, Kael'Thas definitely fit the decadent and aristocratic Revendreth. Furthermore, he was a blood mage, so he had a natural affinity with the Venthyr, whose powers resemble blood.

[Nerovar]

Uther was probably the worst character they could have picked for this since you deal with his spirit on like 3 different occasions in 3 different expansions. They tried to worm their way out of this by doing the whole soul split thing with one half being in Frostmourne but that still doesn't account for the spirit of Uther you talk to at his grave in TBC and Legion.

Alexandros Mograine's afterlife consisting of being an undead locked in perpetual warfare is also one of the most disgusting things they've done to a character.

[McNeil]

They all had potential to be interesting (except for Draka who already had a reunion with Thrall in WoD, yes I know it’s from another universe but basically same deal). They missed opportunities like showing Kael how the blood elves have been thriving since his demise, Vashj learning about Azshara and her deal with N’Zoth and Sylvanas, Uther having some kind of redemption with Arthas and showing that he too has been wrong in abandoning him in his hour of need. It would add more depth and have them come to realise that there demise came at the hands of their own doing. They sorta came to realise that during their campaign but the resolution always felt lacking, especially with Uther just watching Arthas turn to 35 anima.

[chrisisvacant]

Uther was probably the worst character they could have picked for this since you deal with his spirit on like 3 different occasions in 3 different expansions. They tried to worm their way out of this by doing the whole soul split thing with one half being in Frostmourne but that still doesn't account for the spirit of Uther you talk to at his grave in TBC and Legion.

Alexandros Mograine's afterlife consisting of being an undead locked in perpetual warfare is also one of the most disgusting things they've done to a character.

Did they ever directly refer to times where you see an old character's "ghost" and if that's really representative of the person or is it just, like, a spiritual echo? It would make more sense to be an echo than like actual Uther in the ICC dungeon or at the tomb.

[Kralljin]

Questionable, at the very least.
I think the only character that truly has a "fitting" afterlive has been Kael'thas, largely because his fate in TBC has been very poorly handled.

As for Vashj, it's one of those instances where i am very certain that the devs have not thought about it in the slightest.
You have a character that's 100% loyal to an evil Empress, willing to summon Sargeras to Azeroth, thus spelling doom for the entire Planet (and, as we now know, likely Reality because Sargeras getting a hold of Azeroth's World soul would've been bad).

Then, she's being transformed into Naga, gets recruited by Illidan, helps him to attempt to the destroy an entire continent, pretty much performs his wetwork for him by enslaving the Broken population of Outland as well as attempting to seize control of every pond in Outland so they can control every living being on Outland.
...and for all of this, which were often objectively 100% evil actions, she gets sent to the same Afterlife as a Alexandros Mograine, a Paladin who fought against the Orcs in the 2nd War and then later died when on campaign to rid Lordaeron off the Scourge.

I would say there is a slight "morality deficit" between these two characters.

One can make the argument that Maldraxxus primarily cares about the capabilities of a given soul as a soldier, but when you pull that argument, you can basically can take every powerful character that was sent to Revendreth and throw them into Maldraxxus.

It's just this underlying nonsense of the Shadowlands where it quite blatantly disregards the belief system of any faith, puts our moral understanding as god given rule into Afterlive (because characters who are being sent to Revendreth might not be evil from another PoV), only to also disregard that when it suits them.

As for Draka, i read some tinfoil theory that they initially intended Garona for that role, then realized she aint dead and thus picked Draka, no idea whether that's true but a character suddenly changing classes seems very odd.
Makes sense for something like Paladin when moving into the Shadowlands but for a bread and butter class like Warrior to suddenly become a rogue just feels strange.

[loras]

Questionable, at the very least.
I think the only character that truly has a "fitting" afterlive has been Kael'thas, largely because his fate in TBC has been very poorly handled.

As for Vashj, it's one of those instances where i am very certain that the devs have not thought about it in the slightest.
You have a character that's 100% loyal to an evil Empress, willing to summon Sargeras to Azeroth, thus spelling doom for the entire Planet (and, as we now know, likely Reality because Sargeras getting a hold of Azeroth's World soul would've been bad).

Then, she's being transformed into Naga, gets recruited by Illidan, helps him to attempt to the destroy an entire continent, pretty much performs his wetwork for him by enslaving the Broken population of Outland as well as attempting to seize control of every pond in Outland so they can control every living being on Outland.
...and for all of this, which were often objectively 100% evil actions, she gets sent to the same Afterlife as a Alexandros Mograine, a Paladin who fought against the Orcs in the 2nd War and then later died when on campaign to rid Lordaeron off the Scourge.

I would say there is a slight "morality deficit" between these two characters.

One can make the argument that Maldraxxus primarily cares about the capabilities of a given soul as a soldier, but when you pull that argument, you can basically can take every powerful character that was sent to Revendreth and throw them into Maldraxxus.

It's just this underlying nonsense of the Shadowlands where it quite blatantly disregards the belief system of any faith, puts our moral understanding as god given rule into Afterlive (because characters who are being sent to Revendreth might not be evil from another PoV), only to also disregard that when it suits them.

As for Draka, i read some tinfoil theory that they initially intended Garona for that role, then realized she aint dead and thus picked Draka, no idea whether that's true but a character suddenly changing classes seems very odd.
Makes sense for something like Paladin when moving into the Shadowlands but for a bread and butter class like Warrior to suddenly become a rogue just feels strange.

That is probably the best explanation for Draka's involvement i've heard so far.

Also yeah i definitely agree, on Vashj and in the briader sense. They are way too blinded by their own subjective and inconsistent morality to write a proper judging character or properly judged characters.

[Nerovar]

Did they ever directly refer to times where you see an old character's "ghost" and if that's really representative of the person or is it just, like, a spiritual echo? It would make more sense to be an echo than like actual Uther in the ICC dungeon or at the tomb.

I mean, those are quests where you directly talk to him. In Legion he even guides you to find Tirion Fordring's body to recover the Ashbringer. That seems to go beyond what a "spiritual echo" might do.

[Bwgmon]

In general, I would have liked to know more about Kael'Thas' opinions on current Quel'Thalas, divided between three major Thalassian groups.

When Lor'themar mentioned how he might look around the Shadowlands a bit, I was expecting a "Stay a while" in Revendreth where he'd talk with Kael. A little disappointed that didn't happen.

[Feanoro]

Nostalgia bait to get you to swallow the SL shit sandwich.

[Ham on Rye]

Do you feel that other lore characters that we knew of in the past, should've been used instead of them? or do you feel that they fit whatever covenant and the story they had? I think Alexandros Mograine having a reunion with Mograine was cool.

Do you like Uther's usage as one of the Kyrians? Would you have preferred to have seen Doomhammer instead of Draka?

I didn't really care about Draka tbh. KT and Vashj were pretty fun though.

[Omians]

i enjoyed seeing them but would loved to have more stay awhile and listens. lor'themar meeting up and talking to Kael'thas since he talked about it. Let Lor'themar get his closure. Baine seeing his father but he didn't mind not finding him.

Draka and/or Thrall coming across Durotan's soul visiting Oribos. Could of just left it Ghostly white so they wouldn't have to make a green version of his WoD model

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Let the dead remain dead.

[Grazrug]

It was truly amazing. It would be much better tho if Kael'thas would return to the world of the living and help us getting rid of Lor'themar. He is so incompetent it is a mircale the kingdom is still standing.

[Garymorilix]

Questionable, at the very least.
I think the only character that truly has a "fitting" afterlive has been Kael'thas, largely because his fate in TBC has been very poorly handled.

As for Vashj, it's one of those instances where i am very certain that the devs have not thought about it in the slightest.
You have a character that's 100% loyal to an evil Empress, willing to summon Sargeras to Azeroth, thus spelling doom for the entire Planet (and, as we now know, likely Reality because Sargeras getting a hold of Azeroth's World soul would've been bad).

Then, she's being transformed into Naga, gets recruited by Illidan, helps him to attempt to the destroy an entire continent, pretty much performs his wetwork for him by enslaving the Broken population of Outland as well as attempting to seize control of every pond in Outland so they can control every living being on Outland.
...and for all of this, which were often objectively 100% evil actions, she gets sent to the same Afterlife as a Alexandros Mograine, a Paladin who fought against the Orcs in the 2nd War and then later died when on campaign to rid Lordaeron off the Scourge.

I would say there is a slight "morality deficit" between these two characters.

One can make the argument that Maldraxxus primarily cares about the capabilities of a given soul as a soldier, but when you pull that argument, you can basically can take every powerful character that was sent to Revendreth and throw them into Maldraxxus.

It's just this underlying nonsense of the Shadowlands where it quite blatantly disregards the belief system of any faith, puts our moral understanding as god given rule into Afterlive (because characters who are being sent to Revendreth might not be evil from another PoV), only to also disregard that when it suits them.

As for Draka, i read some tinfoil theory that they initially intended Garona for that role, then realized she aint dead and thus picked Draka, no idea whether that's true but a character suddenly changing classes seems very odd.
Makes sense for something like Paladin when moving into the Shadowlands but for a bread and butter class like Warrior to suddenly become a rogue just feels strange.

You are focusing only on one aspect when it comes to Maldraxxus.

Being a capable soldier is not the only thing needed there.
Kael'thas and all other tormented souls in Revendreth are highly unstable, they lash out, they refuse to accept their fate/sins. Perfectly captured during our questing with Kael.

Maldraxxus is a military. It needs soldiers that are able to work in an organized fashion and take orders.
Morality is not the main part of this. Look at Emeni, one of the best soldiers of the Maldraxxi but she is kind of a maniac.

As for Morgraine, it was pretty clearly explained why he ended up in Maldraxxus.

[Grazrug]

That is probably the best explanation for Draka's involvement i've heard so far.

Also yeah i definitely agree, on Vashj and in the briader sense. They are way too blinded by their own subjective and inconsistent morality to write a proper judging character or properly judged characters.

Using Draka was stupid. They should have picked Doomhammer or Grommash. Some character who are actually beloved by the fans.

[Kralljin]

Kael'thas and all other tormented souls in Revendreth are highly unstable, they lash out, they refuse to accept their fate/sins. Perfectly captured during our questing with Kael.

...you had people from various highly militaristic organizations such as the Scarlet Crusade, Mogu Empire and even Garrosh (who is certainly all about war) in there.
Like please, i said even in my post, if Maldraxxus is truly just about recruiting souls based on merit, then Revendreth would be a lot emptier.

Revendreth is a place for people who have comitted crimes, not an insane asylum.

As for Morgraine, it was pretty clearly explained why he ended up in Maldraxxus.

You're incorrect, it was explained why he didn't become a Kyrian, he only went to Maldraxxus by process of elimination.
Dude doesn't fit Revendreth because he didn't do bad shit.
Dude doesn't fit Ardenweald because no nature connection.
What's left in for him in the realm that has a infinite amount of Afterlives?
The one filled with things that served as a basis for the force that destroyed his kingdom and family.