[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Deleted]

Yeah, you're right. Although you'd be surprised how many people like to nit-pick especially at MMO's. On what's been shown to the public on combat, it's fairly innovative although I don't think the average consumer will do that much research. Most people are diverting there eyes at:

1) The payment model.
2) How similar it is to World of Warcraft.
3) The payment model.
4) How similar it is to World of Warcraft.

There isn't much else to talk about that we didn't already discuss or that we are allowed to discuss by the NDA.

[Deleted]

There isn't much else to talk about that we didn't already discuss or that we are allowed to discuss by the NDA.

It's not like people in this thread care about the NDA anymore.

[Kelimbror]

Kind of de-railing just real quick. One should not criticize another on doing research on a game or even a particular thing that could potentially swallow some money and or time. It's called being a smart-consumer P:

I think you missed the part where you just judged people's opinions of the game to be from lack of research, instead of actually reading the thread which has detailed to the nth degree exactly why they feel that way. While people are certainly unhappy with the payment model, what you are referring to has actual feedback with detailed experience that has been heard and currently acted on by the devs.

So...I don't know what to tell you. Nothing I said is telling people to not do research, it's actually the opposite.

Anyway, what they are calling "active combat" is innovative

Umm..nope. I guess you haven't heard about the autotarget tab feature yet? Or the white damage and mobs in your face just like normal hotkey combat? or...anything else about it?

Although not to the extent that the developers are saying it is. Seems like this active form of combat is the new style of mmo's going for:

It is? I sure don't see evidence of that.

- Active.

What MMO isn't 'active'? This isn't really a relevant term.

- Few number of hotkeys.

What does this have to do with 'active combat' or being innovative? What they are doing isn't even as progressive as what Rift or GW2 does. It's less than each of those systems.

- Having to consistently move no matter the role. (which i'm fine with. you shouldn't be able to smoke a cig or watch tv when raiding)

You won't be moving anymore than you do in other hotkey games. Last time I checked other games with raids also have fire for you to not stand in.

- Instead of 30 abilities, you have 5-7 abilities that you actually use. I mean let's be real, in WoW out of your tons of abilities that you have on your bars. How many do you actually use?

This is a repeat reason, but ok. I use every single ability on my bars at some point because I understand my class. Just like people who understand their class in Wildstar will know when to swap out abilities on their bar.

All of this has been done before. Although Wildstar is innovating it further

There is no conclusive proof that this is the case for a majority of the features in the game so far. Do I have faith it will resemeble a better innovation at launch? Heck yeah. I think they are going to make a lot of good changes over this year. I also think the way they are using the LAS will be interesting and hopefully as fluid as I imagine it.

It's just pretty weak of you to instantly criticize people who have real reasons that the game isn't up to par at this time, especially when the developers agree, and then provide 'reasons' of your own that can basically be dismissed out of inexperience. And this is coming from someone who wants the game to do well and wants to play the game... I just know how to be realistically objective.

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It's not like people in this thread care about the NDA anymore.

Some people still do, but a lot of people have had actual non NDA experience wth the game at the plethora of conventions they've been hitting, combined with the videos from things like that, and there's a lot that couldn't be mentioned that can be now. From what I've heard the beta didn't have anything new that hasn't been detailed by their press tour now.

[Ashnazg]

- Instead of 30 abilities, you have 5-7 abilities that you actually use. I mean let's be real, in WoW out of your tons of abilities that you have on your bars. How many do you actually use?

All of them, or they wouldn't be on my bars.

I despise games that seek to minimize the number of buttons to click. If I wanted to play a 5 button game, I'd stick with Smite or LOL.

I prefer complexity, which is why I prefer EQ2's and WoW's over GW2's or TSW's combat.

[Deleted]

All of them, or they wouldn't be on my bars.

I despise games that seek to minimize the number of buttons to click. If I wanted to play a 5 button game, I'd stick with Smite or LOL.

I prefer complexity, which is why I prefer EQ2's and WoW's over GW2's or TSW's combat.

You're so pro with that pianist vibe you got going on over there.

I prefer games whose complexity isn't based on having 50 keybinds but upon mechanics and things to watch out for on the screen.

[Arlee]

All of them, or they wouldn't be on my bars.

I despise games that seek to minimize the number of buttons to click. If I wanted to play a 5 button game, I'd stick with Smite or LOL.

I prefer complexity, which is why I prefer EQ2's and WoW's over GW2's or TSW's combat.

Eh, just having more abilities doesn't automatically mean it's more complex. If a large number of those abilities aren't actually needed you have a fake sense of complexity. Most real complexity comes from how different abilities interact together, the limitations on using those abilities you have, and the choices you have to make about when to use what ability.

[Kelimbror]

I prefer games whose complexity isn't based on having 50 keybinds but upon mechanics and things to watch out for on the screen.

There is a very real difference between complexity and depth. WoW is reducing their ability bloat which actually highlights the issue nicely. It's pretty much a given in iterative design that things like this will happen. The whole genre learns that depth is given in other ways possibly beyond just the buttons you push and so future MMOs adjust or stay outdated.

It can go both ways as well. Remember when WoW had even more abilities because there were ranks of each spell? If balanced properly this was actually a good picture of many buttons with depth, as you had to think what was best for different situations. Unfortunately this resulted in being able to math out the best ranks to use always so that it made healing trivial.

I believe that having interchangable and easily accessed abilities allows for the depth to be moved away from the action bar and into the playing field/theoretical space. Whether this makse the combat more compelling remains to be seen, but it is used in great effect in other genres like ARPGs and MOBAs.

[zito]

All of them, or they wouldn't be on my bars.

I despise games that seek to minimize the number of buttons to click. If I wanted to play a 5 button game, I'd stick with Smite or LOL.

I prefer complexity, which is why I prefer EQ2's and WoW's over GW2's or TSW's combat.

More abilities don't make things complex. GC even states they focus on 5-7 main abilities you use commonly for a rotation or priority and then you have the "once in a blue moon" moves which take up most of the bulk, there are instances you don't need anything besides your main rotation which is only a few buttons.

[Darksoldierr]

But you do actually needs that many abilities.
http://oi40.tinypic.com/4id3j6.jpg

I have 11 abilities without hotkeys, 3 of them are 1 hour long weapon buff, 1 of them is resurection, 1 is water walking, 2 is ground or flying mount, 1 is food, etc. Everything else is needed in different situations in PvP combat, i agree PvE dosen't need this much at all.

I agree more buttons dosen't mean more complex gameplay, but it definitely feels good to have abilities for every scenario and know the hotkeys for all of them.
And somehow it actually makes sense, you have to use different abilities against a warrior and a mage, than just have 5-10 which does the trick against everyone

[Stormkhan]

I used all spells in WoW pvp; Those who disagree were not good at pvp or didn`t care.

I also prefer more keys. Some spells are needed in some very niche situations. Not having access to many abilities makes combat predictable and removes depth.

You can disagree, but its simply a matter of preference.

I enjoy LoL just as much as the other guy, but i would want my mmo to have more depth in every. possibly. way.

[RoninaThorstone]

Kind of de-railing just real quick. One should not criticize another on doing research on a game or even a particular thing that could potentially swallow some money and or time. It's called being a smart-consumer P:

Anyway, what they are calling "active combat" is innovative. Although not to the extent that the developers are saying it is. Seems like this active form of combat is the new style of mmo's going for:

- Active.
- Few number of hotkeys.
- Having to consistently move no matter the role. (which i'm fine with. you shouldn't be able to smoke a cig or watch tv when raiding)
- Instead of 30 abilities, you have 5-7 abilities that you actually use. I mean let's be real, in WoW out of your tons of abilities that you have on your bars. How many do you actually use?

All of this has been done before. Although Wildstar is innovating it further, although not "THIS IS COMPLETELY NEW GUYS. LOOK AT THIS. LOOK AT THAT" kind of attitude.

Um... Since KV played all of CBT3 I don't think he has to do much research.

To call their active combat innovative is to have little experience outside of second generation MMOs. Their combat, hell, even their abilities have been done in other MMOs. If you've been playing things like GW2, NWO, ect you won't find much new or innovative on the combat front in wildstar.

But, as I've said like 100 times now, that's not the point. Wildstar isn't doing anything new, their goal is to do things other people have done in a way that is either better or more intuitive.

[Stormkhan]

The delay on release date, and therefore, the slow info they`re giving out to keep hype up, is killing it for me. I`m more interested in EQ Landmark now

[RoninaThorstone]

Btw, people who think less buttons = less complexity aren't taking into account what real action combat brings to the table with positioning or aiming.

One of the great things in firefall is the fact that you have to aim your healing spells... or bounce them!

For example, in firefall "healing ball" is a projectile heal that explodes on contact with enemies or allies dealing damage and healing, respectively... It doesn't explode on contact with objects or walls though. It bounces. This means you can throw heals around corners, or off the ceiling (good of when you are hiding behind a create or something), or you can even manually detonate it between people / npcs to hit them with the explosion (taking timing, moves fast). When you compare the complexity of healing ball to something that is automated, autoaimed like holy light? Can you see the skill/complexity difference between pressing a button and having to manage all the positioning and aiming issues that healing ball presents? Will that person still be there when the shot hits that location? Should you lead your target? Where are they going? Where am I going? Do I need to get close to the target so I can heal myself off this? Should I shoot at a target or between targets and manually detonate it? Should I aim at the target or bounce from a safe location? Should I use this to heal or to damage?

[Deleted]

how well does semi flying combat work with a bouncy ball with a 30 sec cd.. yep its friggin mind blowingly complex.

having to aim something doesnt make it more complex it makes it more difficult to pull off perfect hits.. there is a massive difference.

So the answer isnt to have different abilities for different situations its to make healing and damage abilities merge into one super ability which does both or either... does nothing but reduce clutter.

[Stormkhan]

All in all, its about preferences.
I just want a game where its easy to distinguish a good player from a bad player. Whether its done by aiming, precision, timing, complexity, number of spells/combos, or whatever else i`ve missed.

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That being said, in WoW Arenas I had over 32-40 keys bound (many macros in there for targeting arena-1/2/3 for many spells), out of which i used at least 90% keys every match. Even had to get an mmo mouse for it.

The sheer amount of stuff that was to be done clearly drew lines on who would be the top 0.5% in arenas.

[Keren]

I dont even want to flame them anymore: http://www.wildstar-online.com/uk/ne...e_round-up.php

[Stormkhan]

I dont even want to flame them anymore: http://www.wildstar-online.com/uk/ne...e_round-up.php

`Hi we have nothing new to cover; why not take a look at what we already covered xoxoxo`

[RoninaThorstone]

I dont even want to flame them anymore: http://www.wildstar-online.com/uk/ne...e_round-up.php

Please don't necro.

(loljk)

Again, hype dying out for them isn't exactly a bad thing for now.

[Keren]

it cant be that hard to actually make 2 scans of concept arts and to just publish them... aka "Here, take a look at these scans to see how we try to design monsters" Damn it, thats not that hard to do!

[Deleted]

it cant be that hard to actually make 2 scans of concept arts and to just publish them... aka "Here, take a look at these scans to see how we try to design monsters" Damn it, thats not that hard to do!

then people would complain its concept art. They could post new lore and class unveil and people would go "well we already knew what they were..."